thing

It feels like the World Cup started only yesterday, but we’re quickly approaching the final between Spain and Argentina on Sunday. Even if soccer isn’t a sport you typically watch, it was hard not to get sucked into the enthusiasm of the game and cheer for the teams, whether you had a connection to a particular country or not. If you’re among the viewers who are going to feel a little melancholy after it’s all over, you’re not alone. Culture critic Mary McNamara has been enthusiastically following the matches, and if you’re feeling more globally minded as a result, she came up with a list of international TV shows to watch when the the World Cup is over.

My colleagues at De Los, who, like many of us, have been watching the matches on Telemundo (I count myself among them), might be following up their World Cup viewing with some episodes of “El Señor de los Cielos,” the network’s long-running series starring veteran Mexican actor Rafael Amaya. The ads for the show have been a constant between timeouts and matches, and I’m intrigued. And I’ll admit the racy ads for “El Turco” also caught my eye — Telemundo knows exactly what it is doing.

And as the global event winds down, if you’re still hankering to watch something sports related, you’re in luck because Netflix released its latest comedy starring Will Ferrell, “The Hawk,” in which the comedic actor plays Lonnie “The Hawk” Hawkins,” the greatest golfer in the world. The series, which Ferrell created with longtime collaborators Harper Steele and Chris Henchy, reunites him with fellow “Saturday Night Live” alums Molly Shannon and Chris Parnell. However, the person you’ll see him most with onscreen is his co-star Fortune Feimster. The stand-up comedian and actor dropped by Guest Spot to chat about the new series, her experience with golf and what it was like to go toe-to-toe with Ferrell, one of her comedy heroes.

Also in this week’s Screen Gab, our writers recommend a romance horror film that set the internet ablaze earlier this year and a classic British spy series. — Maira Garcia

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Recommendations from the film and TV experts at The Times

Inde Navarrette stars as Nikki and Michael Johnston as Bear in “Obsession.”

(Focus Features)

“Obsession” (Peacock)

After earning $428 million worldwide at the box office (on a $750,000 budget) and sending shock waves through Hollywood, the cautionary love story in this romance horror film hits streaming. Directed by YouTuber-turned-horror-auteur Curry Barker, the film follows Bear (Michael Johnston), a shy, hapless guy who, after being unable to summon the courage to confess his feelings for friend and co-worker Nikki (Inde Navarrette), dubiously turns to a one-wish willow toy and hopes for her to “love him more than anyone else in the world.” And, well, the results are chilling — in large part due to Navarrette’s ability to go from completely charming to completely frightening with just her face. If you want to understand some of the online discourse the film has ignited — what it says about consent, its plot holes, whether it’s worthy of the hype or just what the heck was up with that walking backward moment — here’s your chance to see what all the fuss is about. — Yvonne Villarreal

Patrick McGoohan stars in the 1967 TV series “The Prisoner.”

(ITC Entertainent)

“The Prisoner” (Criterion Channel)

The 17 episodes of “The Prisoner,” Patrick McGoohan‘s 1967 existentialist, anti-authoritarian, anti-nationalist, mod-a-go-go avant-garde ode to individualism, have been given a deserved berth in the cinematic pantheon that is the Criterion Channel, looking clean and crisp and immediate. Created in an era rife with screen spies — including the one creator-star McGoohan had previously played in the show aired here as “Secret Agent” — its hero is a British operative who resigns his job in the opening credits, only to find himself imprisoned in a fanciful seaside village — a kind of Baroque hilltown impression of a holiday camp. His unidentified jailers believe there must be a darker reason for his resignation and spend the series attempting it to extract it with elaborate charades, gizmos and gadgets, while our hero spends it trying to bring them down and/or escape. (A giant floating white ball provides creepy security.) Unwilling to bend, impossible to break, McGoohan at once upends the James Bond mythos and provides a dashing hero, clever, witty and terribly attractive. — Robert Lloyd

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A weekly chat with actors, writers, directors and more about what they’re working on — and what they’re watching

In “The Hawk,” Fortune Feimster plays Sam, who becomes the caddie for Lonnie (Ferrell).

(Colleen E. Hayes / Netflix)

“The Hawk” gives us a tour of the golf world through the eyes of the titular Lonnie Hawkins (Ferrell), whose better days in the game appear to be behind him. With his trusty caddie Old Henry (Keith David) by his side, he’s feeling like things are looking up — until Old Henry dies suddenly. Lonnie is heartbroken, but he’s not deterred, choosing to continue his ambitious return to the PGA Tour, leading him to be extremely late to Old Henry’s funeral and making a disastrous entrance.

But who will be his new caddie? Enter Sam, played by Feimster, a drifter Lonnie meets in a Walmart parking lot when he pulls over his tour bus. Sam’s late-model Cadillac is broken down in the parking lot, but that doesn’t get her down. Lonnie and Sam strike up a fast friendship, and before you know it, she’s driving his bus and working as his caddie on the course, encouraging him as he goes up against foes like Golden Fisk (Luke Wilson), Anton (Parnell) and even his own son, Lance (Jimmy Tatro), with whom he has a difficult relationship. Her methods are unusual — Sam doesn’t know much about golf, but their mutual love of fast-casual dining and pickles (a running gag in the show) gets them through.

“I’m excited for people to see another big broad comedy,” she says about “The Hawk.” “You know, we need to laugh. That’s what’s been missing, I think, from our current times is we need some more laughter, some more levity.”

The actor spoke about hers and Ferrell’s onscreen friendship, which has become a real-life friendship thanks to their mutual love of sports, how a silly musical moment in the finale came together and why you might see her and interior designer Jeff Lewis together again soon. — M.G.

I feel like a lot of your comedy has some sensibility of who you are as a person and where you come from — the South. How did you relate to Sam in this series?

The heart of Sam was something I really responded to. I love that this was a really silly, wacky character where I got to show off the broad comedy that I often enjoy doing. But I appreciated the trajectory of the character, that they allowed me to have this range where I got to show emotion and be disappointed and angry and just go through a mix of emotions as an actor. That was a really cool road to get to go down. But I love the heart that she had. And I think that’s something that I try to incorporate in my own life, positivity and cheering people on and that belief in people that they can do it.

How much did you know about golf before taking role?

Not much, honestly, other than a few rounds at Top Golf. [Laughs] I’m a sports gal. I love sports. I played sports my whole life, but for whatever reason, golf was the one sport I did not partake in … I even played college sports. This was the one I didn’t have much knowledge of, but luckily my character did not need any knowledge of golf. It almost was beneficial that I did not know what I was talking about. So when Will’s character needed a club, and I had no clue which one it was, that was all very real.

Do you think the show helps make golf more relatable? Golf is presented as a highbrow sport, but Sam and Lonnie, they’re grounded. He found Sam in a Walmart parking lot.

I definitely think it makes it more palatable for people that aren’t familiar with that world. I think that’s why you start rooting for this character, because he’s the outsider that doesn’t necessarily fit in that world. You kind of like that chaos that he brings to this very posh, very put-together sport. That’s why I think you find a lot of comedy in the juxtaposition of that. Comedy’s all about tension and release, and you have a lot of tension with that stuffy golf world and that competition, and then the release is this fun comedy, ridiculous people, crazy outfits — it’s fun to watch the two worlds collide.

I’m so glad you mentioned crazy outfits because there’s this scene where Sam gets herself a leather suit as a reward. Was it hot to wear?

As a comedian, the suit was incredible because it was so ridiculous. And of course, my character would waste her money on something like that right away instead of being responsible with it and saving it. As an actor, that suit was so, so hot. We were filming in the hottest parts of the Valley of L.A. and they did everything they could to make it not just like … my body sweated every two seconds. It sure was rough at times. But for the look of it all and the comedy of it all, it was worth it.

There’s another great moment, in the finale, where you’re trying to motivate Lonnie and you start singing the Chili’s “Baby Back Ribs” song. Was that in the script?

That was in the script, mainly just because anything song related had to have clearance. But there was a lot of riffing between him and I about fast food restaurants and about restaurants in general, and a lot of that was off the cuff, he and I just talking as people about all the fast food restaurants we love. The Chili’s song is that iconic jingle that everybody knows. We took it very seriously getting to sing it with each other … and we were practicing like, “OK, you take this part,” and he’d be like, “OK, no, you keep going, and then I’ll come in.” It felt like a real musical situation that we were prepping for.

Oh, my God, I need to see that outtake. I would be dying.

Luke [Wilson, who plays Golden Fisk] said he had passed by us practicing, and he said it was such a surreal moment seeing how serious Will and I were taking this song.

Fortune Feimster as Sam and Will Ferrell as Lonnie in “The Hawk.”

(Colleen E. Hayes / Netflix)

Speaking of Will, I went through our archives and you told one of our writers in 2023 that you hoped to one day have a career like Will Ferrell’s. Now you’re starring in a show with him. What was it like working with him, and do you feel like you’re getting closer to that goal?

The experience of working with him was definitely a dream come true — he and Molly Shannon, the fact that I’m with both of them on the show is pretty crazy. I feel like everyone growing up has their “SNL” cast that they are like, “That’s my cast, that’s who I watched every Saturday,” and they were definitely my cast. My early knowledge of comedy comes from them, and I’m sure there’s a big influence of them in my comedy now, having watched them religiously. To now be on a show with the two of them does not feel real at times.

What’s nice is I’d done two movies with Will, like very small parts, and had hoped that that would lead to something more in the future and was so lucky that it did. But we really got to know each other a lot better on this show, obviously, because I was basically his right-hand person the entire show. I would say 85% of what I filmed was with him. We just hit it off right away. Our energies are very similar. We’re very similar in our outlook. Our sensibilities of comedy are very similar.

We became genuine friends. He’ll pick me up and take me to a Lakers game. We just went to the World Cup game together. We definitely have a bond of sports. It’s so cool to not only get to be working with someone I admire so much and a comedy hero, but to now be genuine friends, it’s pretty incredible. I’m so lucky that I’m in that position.

What World Cup game did you guys go to?

We went to USA vs. Turkey here in L.A. He wore his visor that says “Hawk” on it. We kept trying to get the camera guy’s attention because we weren’t sitting in a box. We wanted to be in the mix … with the fans, and so no one expected to see Will sitting there amongst the fans.

After halftime, they go around and show different [celebrities] like, “Leonardo DiCaprio is here.” I said, “Will, the camera guy’s looking at us.” Everyone in our section got really pumped about it. We show up on the Jumbotron, and our whole section starts going nuts. And I’m pointing at Will’s hat, he’s dancing, and we didn’t know that it was also on TV. My phone blew up for like the next 30 minutes because everyone and their mother was watching this soccer game. We ended up inadvertently promoting “The Hawk” on this really big world stage.

What’s a TV series or film that you’ve watched recently that you’re recommending to everyone?

I feel like it’s not something that I have to recommend, so many people know of it, but I really loved “Hacks” [HBO Max], and especially this last season of it, I felt like they wrapped it up so beautifully. Sometimes these shows have this good run, and then they sort of fumble it at the end, and I just thought the way they ended that show really serviced all of their characters in such a great way and highlighted this really beautiful friendship from people of different generations.

What’s your comfort watch, a TV show or film that you love to return to and watch over and over again?

A movie that I could watch no matter what … is “Bridesmaids” [Peacock, Hulu]. That movie never gets old. I just think it’s one of the best comedies. Of course, as a female comedian, I love a group of women doing funny things together. And those particular women are just so incredible. I’ve gotten lucky enough to work with Kristen [Wiig] and Annie [Mumolo] — I did “Barb and Star [Go to Vista Del Mar]” with Kristen and Annie. Even though I was a tiny part of that movie, I can watch that movie over and over again. I just love their sensibilities as writers as well.

I promised my colleague I would ask you one more question, about getting your house renovated by Jeff Lewis on “Flipping Out” and what that was like.

That always cracks me up how many people saw that show. I’m working with him right now. I have a new house that he is helping with at the moment.

I mean, listen, he’s a big personality. There’s a reason why they gave him “Flipping Out” for so many years that he has a radio show now [“Jeff Lewis Live” on SiriusXM], and they’re actually bringing his “Flipping Out” show back [“Still Flipping Out” on Bravo], which I did a little bit of that show as well. But as an interior designer, he definitely has this — he kind of walks into a space and you see him calculate things, like “A Beautiful Mind,” where he’s seeing everything in front of him, and he’s very decisive. I’m very indecisive with interior design. Even though he has this … over-the-top personality, as a designer, he’s so gifted. And when you see his work, you’re like, “Oh, my God, this is incredible.”

Obviously he and I have a funny rapport with each other, but now also doing this house, I feel like I’ve learned even more to the point where I know when to give it back to him a little bit. He likes that little ribbing of each other.

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London — It’s a scorching day and the city feels blanketed by the heat. Even the unusually strong air conditioning in a suite at the Raffles hotel is no match for the temperature. Octavia Spencer immediately peels off her jacket after entering the room and realizing there are no cameras present for our interview. Hannah Waddingham, her co-star in “Ride or Die,” kicks off her heels as they settle onto a plush sofa.

“You’ve seen that we look nice,” Spencer says. “So now we can do this.”

There’s a relaxed, familiar vibe between the actors. They didn’t know each other prior to filming the series, now streaming on Prime Video, but they did develop a real-life friendship during production in Prague last year. It was perhaps inevitable considering that “Ride or Die,” created by Tessa Coates, is about two best friends whose relationship is upended when one of them is revealed to be a professional assassin.

Spencer, 56, plays Debbie Claybourne, a lawyer whose career has been put on hold due to her British husband David’s political aspirations. The actor was approached by Skydance, now part of Paramount, as part of a development deal with the studio. She said yes almost immediately, and by happenstance both she and the producers imagined Waddingham, 51, in the role of Judith Burton, a skilled assassin who works for a shady organization run by the Director (Bill Nighy).

“It was always just the two of us for these roles,” says Spencer, who won an Oscar in 2012 for “The Help.” “We did a Zoom and I was sitting there thinking, ‘I hope she says yes.’”

In “Ride or Die,” Spencer plays Debbie, a lawyer and wife of a British politician, who is best friends with secret assassin Judith, played by Waddingham. (Dusan Martincek / Prime)

“It’s Octavia Spencer and I’m thinking, ‘Be cool, be cool,’” Waddingham chimes in. “Octavia and Tessa start telling me the plot and at the end I said, ‘Who the hell are you going to get to play Judith?’ Octavia’s face filled the whole screen and she said, ‘We want to make you Judith, dummy.’”

Each professes to be a fan of the other, but Spencer is particularly effusive. She admits to initially having to remind herself that Waddingham is, in fact, an actual person and not Rebecca Welton, her character on “Ted Lasso.” She turns to her co-star. “We know you’re a brilliant comedian, but you also showed us in ‘Game of Thrones’ this depth,” Spencer tells Waddingham, adding, “With her beauty and that statuesque presence she has, this role was literally written with a woman of her caliber in mind.”

Waddingham turns red. “I’m not good when she does this,” she admits.

“Well, it’s very true,” Spencer responds. “I think it was kismet. I knew it was meant to be when we were at the upfronts for Amazon and we were in the wings with Will Ferrell and Reese Witherspoon, just chatting it up. I’ve always had severe stage fright. They walked out and I got really quiet, centered myself, and then I felt these arms around me. She wrapped me up from behind, and it was like, ‘OK, I’m good.’ That’s what it has felt like this entire process.”

Waddingham’s memory of that day, her second time meeting Spencer after their first call, is slightly different. “Octavia is so established in Hollywood,” she says. “I’m still a newcomer in this town. So I was having the worst impostor syndrome that day. I was thinking, ‘I look like a competition winner.’”

Nerves settled by the time the production started in January 2025. Before joining forces in Prague, Waddingham flew to Ischgl, an Austrian ski town known for its party vibe, to shoot the show’s opening sequence. The James Bond-style scene introduces Judith as talented, serious and a bit of a loner. That perception is quickly upended when the character arrives at Debbie’s home in London for their book club meeting and the duo begin singing along to Salt-N-Pepa’s “Shoop.”

“Octavia is so established in Hollywood,” Waddingham says of meeting her co-star. “I’m still a newcomer in this town.”

(Bexx Francois / For The Times)

“That was our first scene together and we didn’t plan anything or talk about it,” Waddingham says. “But we had an unspoken, organic process.”

“We had a lot of trust,” Spencer adds. “I knew she was going to come in with 1000% and that I was going to too. Some of those things you figure out when you’re on the set and some of those things just happen in the moment.”

Showrunner Matt Miller points to the scene as evidence of the actors’ “instant chemistry.”

“It really feels like this is a friendship that has endured 25 years from the moment they get on screen,” Miller says, speaking with Coates over video call later. “From the second you see them dancing around, you’re like, ‘Oh yeah, these two are best friends.’”

Coates and Miller wanted to ensure that the characters’ history was baked into the scripts. They’ve been friends for decades, so there had to be a shorthand between them that was immediately apparent and they had to be on equal footing. The duo are forced on the run across Europe, dogged by their past, and successfully get themselves out of danger.

“These characters came from a great desire to see women like this on screen,” Coates says. “So many stories suggest aging is the worst thing that could possibly happen to you. But what if getting older seemed really cool and you got wiser and better at your job and gave less of a s— about things?”

Coates adds they wanted both characters to be competent and clever women who happen to be thrown into difficult circumstances.

“Women in their 50s are just as capable, just as beautiful, just as sexy,” Spencer says. “We’re just aging.”

Spencer and Waddingham, both executive producers on the series, never sought top billing over the other. Although the show is ostensibly an action comedy, they wanted to ground it in real emotions. Everything is tethered to this friendship.

“Women in their 50s are just as capable, just as beautiful, just as sexy,” Octavia Spencer says. “We’re just aging.”

(Bexx Francois / For The Times)

“There couldn’t be one more important than the other,” Waddingham says. “The thing they say about relationships is that when one is at 90 and the other is at 10, or one is at 80 and the other is at 20. That’s what this had to be straight away. If you have that pendulum back and forth, you can create magic.”

Although both characters find small romances throughout the story, men are sidelined for the far more important relationship: their own. And it’s not always an easy partnership between them.

“There is a love story at the center of this,” Spencer says. “It’s not a romantic love story, but it is a familial relationship. It’s contentious, and the relationship is fractious at points.”

Waddingham adds, “You have to be able to call each other out, and then get through that storm and let the water settle.”

Still, there is a lot of action in “Ride or Die.” Judith frequently kicks ass, often taking on groups of imposing men. It’s deeply satisfying to watch Waddingham, who did most of her own stunt work, take these men down.

“In theater, I never had an alternate,” she explains. “I’m not usually Method, but with this I thought my exhaustion from fighting and the stunt training would lend itself to Judith’s exhaustion and her frailty. It wasn’t particularly healthy, if I’m honest, but that fractured tiredness really helped play the role.”

She adds, “It’s a real art form. The first stunt work I did was on ‘The Fall Guy’ and learning to stop before you punch someone in the face is hard.”

“That’s why I was terrified for you,” Spencer interjects. “Because I did punch somebody in the face. The only other time that I actually had to do stunts was on ‘Snowpiercer.’ It was so exciting watching you, but then I was like, ‘Somebody could hit her for real.’”

Waddingham felt added pressure knowing Judith’s background. “She’s not just an assassin, she’s a notorious assassin of 30 years,” she says. “If you see her punching someone, like when we’re running out of the gala, that punch can’t be some girly thing. You have to believe she can do it perfectly and effortlessly.”

Waddingham did much of her own stunt work in “Ride or Die.” “It’s a real art form. The first stunt work I did was on ‘The Fall Guy’ and learning to stop before you punch someone in the face is hard.”

(Bexx Francois / For The Times)

Both actors approached the show with complete dedication. Waddingham and Spencer appear in almost every scene, which vacillate between action, comedy and drama. Debbie, named after Coates’ mother, feels betrayed by Judith and her husband, who is involved in shady dealings with an Albanian gang. “There were the rigors of it physically, but there was also the emotional rigor of it,” Waddingham says.

“It might have been the most challenging job that I’ve ever done,” Spencer agrees. “The most challenging, but also the most gratifying. I knew I would not be called upon to do any stunt sequences, but I did have physical stuff I needed to do. And then dealing with the emotional weight of Debbie discovering that two very important relationships are not at all what she thought they were was a lot.”

She pauses. “But you know what, why not?” she continues. “We don’t want to be in a comfortable place all the time. You want to know you completed something that was very difficult to do. I feel very proud now, looking back.”

“We couldn’t have left our hearts and our bodies and our brains on it any more than we did,” Waddingham agrees. “It is splattered with us. I’ve been very privileged to go from ‘Ted Lasso’ to this, because ‘Ted’ is a very hard act to follow in terms of that constant and emotional push and pull. This has that as well.”

While filming “Ride or Die,” Waddingham found out Apple TV had greenlit a fourth season of “Ted Lasso,” which premieres Aug. 5. She wasn’t expecting to be pulled back to her Emmy-winning role of Rebecca after the series ostensibly concluded in 2023. “I didn’t know anything about it,” she says. “No clue.”

“We found that out together,” Spencer says.

Waddingham had only two weeks off after wrapping “Ride or Die” before flying to Kansas to film the first episode of Season 4, which sees Rebecca attempting to lure Jason Sudeikis’ Ted back to London to coach Richmond’s women’s soccer team. The rest of the series then shot in England. The new episodes keep Rebecca as one of the emotional cores of the show.

“I haven’t really stopped since then,” Waddingham says. “When I’m older, I’m going to have a little sleep. But this is what you wait for in your life.”

For Spencer, “Ride or Die” has raised the bar on what type of project she wants to do as a producer and as an actor.

“It is hard to get things made,” Spencer says. “I don’t have time to do things just for a paycheck. It has to resonate with me because your time and health are your most valuable commodities, and time is something that you have no control over. As an artist, I want to be fulfilled and when you get a project like this now everything has to compare. I’ve learned to be very discerning.”

She gestures to Waddingham. “Don’t you want to be excited about things?” she asks.

“Yes,” Waddingham agrees. “And it just doesn’t happen very often. But this was remarkable from the beginning. To be able to spend a couple of days together right now and regroup, it’s almost like a therapy session. We’ve had distance to reflect on all the good and all the exhausting, and on what we have created together. I know that neither of us will ever forget this.”

Spencer nods. “It is a dream. I feel very fortunate that we get to look for projects like this for ourselves and have an active voice in procuring those things for ourselves and for other people. But you dream it, and then you get something like this, and it surpasses everything you ever thought you could want.”

Rarely would Sam Neill, who died Monday, carry a film on his own, but what he did in several of them, modestly and dependably, was equally as important. His nuanced supporting work allowed some of the greatest actresses of their moment attain their first fireworks. And even though he starred in one of Hollywood’s hugest blockbusters, it takes a certain kind of confidence to share the spotlight with a dinosaur. Here are Neill’s highlights, all worth rewatching for the sake of better appreciating a sophisticated presence often on the sidelines.

‘My Brilliant Career’ (1979)

Sam Neill and Judy Davis in the movie “My Brilliant Career.”

(Michael Ochs Archives / Getty Images)

Gillian Armstrong’s first feature is a landmark of the Australian New Wave and feminist cinema, signaling the arrival of the great Judy Davis and containing the most erotically charged (and quite possibly the longest) pillow fight in movie history. It works splendidly for countless reasons, not the least of which is Neill’s presence as the charming suitor of Davis’ headstrong heroine. Set in 1897 in rural Australia, the film follows Davis’ Sybylla, who dreams of becoming a writer, an unconventional aspiration given her family’s poverty and societal norms. Then she meets a wealthy charmer, played by Neill, and he proposes. It should be an easy decision, particularly since Sybylla loves him and Neill makes him so irresistible. That Sybylla does, in fact, resist, choosing independence over love and the possibility of perennial pillow fights, makes “My Brilliant Career” so daring and thrilling. — Glenn Whipp

‘Possession’ (1981)

Isabelle Adjani and Sam Neill in the movie “Possession.”

(Metrograph Pictures)

It’s being remade with Margaret Qualley and the main reason for the movie’s notoriety remains Isabelle Adjani’s unhinged, incantatory performance, a collection of freak-outs that’s still unmatched. But one can argue that Adjani couldn’t have gotten there without the slightly milquetoast banality of her character’s husband, played by Neill as one of the least exciting on-screen spies of the 1980s. (She’s already cheating on him when the movie begins.) He doesn’t seem cut out to be a family man either, but Neill’s cuckolded complaining, hard to pull off this confidently, may be what’s driving her to self-harm in the first place. — Joshua Rothkopf

‘The Final Conflict’ (1981)

More than a decade before his “Jurassic Park” role, Neill delivered a chilling turn as the Antichrist in “The Final Conflict,” better known as the third film in “The Omen” franchise, about a couple that unwittingly adopts the son of Satan. In this second sequel, Neill plays an adult Damien Thorn, now a U.S ambassador to the United Kingdom who is determined to stop the second coming of Christ. With sinister smiles and steely glares, Neill makes Damien his own, waging a murderous campaign against a group of priests, his voice dripping with contempt as he vows to slay “the Nazarene” when he is born. — Greg Braxton

‘Dead Calm’ (1989)

Sam Neill and Nicole Kidman on the set of the movie “Dead Calm.”

(Michael Ochs Archives / Getty Images)

We remember Philip Noyce’s claustrophobic cat-and-mouse thriller primarily as Nicole Kidman’s big-screen breakthrough. But, and you may be noticing a theme here, the movie would not work without Neill, who had a gift for playing opposite strong-minded women. Kidman and Neill are a married couple embarking on an ocean adventure to work through the loss of their child. They happen upon a crazy-eyed stranger (Billy Zane) on a sinking schooner, take him aboard and things go south from there. Part Cary Grant, part MacGyver, Neill gives a great physical performance, which he parlayed into well-paying Hollywood action roles for the rest of his career. None came close, though, to his flare-gun theatrics here. — Glenn Whipp

‘Jurassic Park’ (1993)

You go for the dinosaurs and there’s no shame in that. But credit Neill for both understanding the assignment and not quite settling for those awed stares of Spielbergian wonder. His Alan Grant is distinct enough to register as prickly and a little inside himself. He absolutely hates children, even as the whole plot, somewhat obviously, steers him in the opposite direction. He’s not Jeff Goldblum-level rascally, but he’s confident enough to go his own way and make a killer joke at a high-voltage fence. Acting-wise, Neill has already held his own opposite several forces of nature (see above). Raptors were nothing. — Joshua Rothkopf

‘The Piano’ (1993)

Sam Neill in the move “The Piano.”

(The Criterion Collection)

So many of Neill’s most memorable movies feature him supporting the singular vision of great directors, as is the case with Jane Campion’s 1993 landmark. Neill plays the awkward, ignorant Scottish farmer who arranges for a mail-order marriage with Holly Hunter’s mute pianist and then becomes possessive and driven to jealous despair. We hate him. Which was fine by Neill, as he wrote in his 2023 memoir: “There is honour to be found in the second fiddle. Or fourth. No one notices you much, you don’t get nominated for things. But you served. I was there in an important feminist film. It’s a work of art. And look, that tiny little figure in the fabric — see down there on the right — that’s me. It’s a film that will always have a place in cinema history. And I served in it.” — Glenn Whipp

‘In the Mouth of Madness’ (1994)

Finally, a leading role. Granted it’s one in which Neill, strapped in a straitjacket, screams things like “I’m not insane!” But if you’re a fan of his brand of slightly unconvinced heroism, John Carpenter’s horror movie — about an insurance investigator on the hunt for a missing Stephen King-like author — is an enjoyable watch. Carpenter was never one to overexplain things to his actors (it’s why you find so many rich, self-directed performances in his movies) and Neill’s snoop definitely goes through the looking glass, from disbelieving cynic to true believer. Genre movies thrive on his kind of total commitment. — Joshua Rothkopf

Emmy nominations arrived Wednesday and if you made the cut, it was a magical morning, like you were invited to Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s wedding and danced to “I Want to Hold Your Hand” and ate your fill of lobster, sushi and Krispy Kreme donuts, a combination that I’m sure goes well together provided you’ve fortified yourself with a steady stream of the couple’s signature tequila cocktails throughout the day.

And if you didn’t hear your name called, well, you’re feeling like you’re out there on the street behind the police barricade, hot and sweaty, wondering what happened to your dragons and how in this underwhelming Emmy season things could go so wrong.

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With Emmy submissions still down this year, there aren’t as many slots available to salute all the worthy work, leading to some sad omissions — which, for the sake of alliteration and search engine optimization, we’ll call “snubs.” There were also some surprises, some worthy, some about as welcome as the aftermath of a hot dog-eating contest on the Fourth of July.

Now that I’ve whetted your appetite, grab a donut (or a footlong) while I run down the morning’s notables.

SURPRISE: “The Bear” (comedy series)

OK, not that huge a surprise when a series nominated for its first three seasons, and winning for its first, snags another nod. But given the number of people complaining about the show’s pokey plotting, it was fair to wonder if “The Bear” would again make the cut for Season 4. The show dropped its final season three days after nominations voting ended and because things actually happened during this crowd-pleasing conclusion, it’s possible we might be seeing it again here next year too.

SNUB: Jeremy Allen White, “The Bear” (comedy lead actor)

While “The Bear” made the cut for series, the only cast member to join the party was Ayo Edebiri. Past winners White, Liza Colon-Zayas and Ebon Moss-Bacharach were left out, though all will have a shot at returning next year. Whether they will is open to question. Voters seem to have had their fill of the show.

Jeremy Allen White and Ayo Edebiri in “The Bear.”

(FX)

SURPRISE: “Your Friends and Neighbors” (drama series)

The Jon Hamm-led Apple crime drama failed to land any nominations for its first season outside a nod for main title music. Now moved from limited series to drama, it inexplicably landed a single nomination for its enjoyable-enough follow-up season — for the big prize, drama series. No other noms. Nothing for Emmy favorite Hamm. It’s almost as confusing as some of the plotting in the show.

SNUB: “Half Man” (limited series)

Richard Gadd’s limited series was provocative with its brutally violent look at male rage and unresolved trauma. But some voters I talked with found it so off-putting that they never made it past the first episode. Could be we’ve had our fill of toxic male behavior in the news without having to endure it on our down time too.

SURPRISE: Riz Ahmed, “Bait” (limited series / TV movie lead actor)

Ahmed created, wrote and produced this limited series about a struggling actor whose life is upended when rumors circulate he might be the next James Bond. His sharp comic timing and affecting vulnerability landed with voters.

SNUB: Cailee Spaeny, “Beef” (limited series / TV movie supporting actress)

OK, you didn’t like her character and you’re still afraid to drink orange juice after watching the show. But to nominate everyone else from the series and omit Spaeny? That feels like a case of Millennials and Boomers taking out their grievances on Gen Z.

Cailee Spaeny, left, with Carey Mulligan and Charles Melton in “Beef.”

(Netflix)

SURPRISE: Richard Jenkins and Joy Sunday (limited series / TV movie supporting actor and actress)

The weird and unpredictable “DTF St. Louis” had one last surprise for us, as voters indicated their enthusiasm for it by nominating not just David Harbour, Jason Bateman and Linda Cardellini, but also Richard Jenkins and Joy Sunday, who were terrific as the mismatched law enforcement partners. “DTF,” not “Beef,” might now be the limited series to beat at the Emmys.

SNUB: “Stranger Things” (drama series)

Nostalgia, it would seem, has its limits.

SURPRISE: Rufus Sewell, “The Diplomat” (drama lead actor)

He’s overly involved on the show, so why not at the Emmys, too?

SNUB: Kathy Bates, “Matlock” (drama lead actress)

Dirty birdies.

Chase Infiniti in “The Testaments.”

(Disney)

SURPRISE: Chase Infiniti, “The Testaments” (drama lead actress)

Infiniti was overlooked at the Oscars for her lead turn in “One Battle After Another,” but Emmy voters did right by her, nominating her formidable work in the sequel to “The Handmaid’s Tale.”

SNUB: Adam Brody and Kristen Bell, “Nobody Wants This” (comedy lead actor and actress)

Though Netflix’s rom-com nabbed a comedy series nomination, voters took the title to heart regarding its two leads, both of whom were nominated for its first season.

SURPRISE: Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, “Wonder Man” (comedy lead actor)

A show about a struggling actor navigating the indignities of auditions? No doubt voters found it relatable and Abdul-Mateen II made his anxieties and aspirations vivid.

SNUB: Jenna Ortega, “Wednesday” (comedy lead actress)

Wednesday’s child is full of woe.

Megan Stalter, left, with Robby Hoffman and Paul W. Downs in “Hacks.”

(HBO Max)

SURPRISE: Megan Stalter, “Hacks” (comedy supporting actress)

Stalter’s loud, boundary-pushing nepo baby Kayla on “Hacks” was divisive, but she coasted to her first nomination on the wave of goodwill surrounding the show’s final season. Cringe comedy enthusiasts are celebrating. Now we await a reprise of her jeans and white T-shirt red carpet look from last year.

SNUB: “Saturday Night Live” cast members (comedy supporting actor and actress)

Admittedly it’s a low bar, but “Saturday Night Live” was better this year, not that voters seem to have noticed. Bowen Yang failed to earn a nomination for his farewell season, ending a four-year streak. And breakout cast member Ashley Padilla was overlooked too, her comic timing apparently too absurd for voters’ tastes.

SURPRISE: Dale Dickey, “Widow’s Bay” (comedy supporting actress)

Hopes were high for “Widow’s Bay,” television’s best new comedy, which arrived late in the Emmy season — so late that its last three episodes weren’t eligible for consideration. But that didn’t stop voters from embracing it, giving the show 19 nominations, including one for Dickey’s turn as the gruff town hall worker who is the Spielberg of overhead projector presentations.

SURPRISE: Connor Storrie (comedy series guest actor)

HBO Max’s hockey romance drama “Heated Rivalry” wasn’t eligible for the Emmys because it’s a production of the Canadian TV network Crave, and the television academy requires the U.S.A. be part of a show’s funding to make the ballot. But star Storrie still received an Emmy invite thanks to his impressive comic turn hosting “Saturday Night Live” in February. The guest actor trophies are handed out during the Creative Arts Emmys, a week before the primetime show, but we’ll likely see Storrie and “Heated Rivalry” co-star Hudson Williams show up to present something during the main telecast. They do want people to watch, right?

It was never actually in doubt. Dearica Hamby was going to stay a member of the Sparks. That was just how she worked.

Even when Nneka Ogwumike came into the fold and the frontcourt became crowded, Hamby didn’t doubt her decision to return to the organization that traded for her four years ago.

Loyalty mattered more than anything else.

“That’s who I am,” she said. “I don’t run away from things. I wanted to stay here and help L.A. get back to where it was and is capable of being.”

In a loaded frontcourt, the 32-year-old Hamby has still found ways to shine. Hamby has led the Sparks in scoring four times and led or tied for rebounding 16 times this season after signing a three-year, $3.5-million contract.

She ranks in the top 20 in the league in rebounds and field-goal percentage (plus 25th in scoring) and is eighth in offensive rebounds in establishing herself as an essential piece to the Sparks’ “win now” attempt.

“I think it’s the challenge, because we are so good and we have so much talent,” said Hamby, who is averaging 14.8 points, 7.7 rebounds and 2.3 assists while shooting 52.8% from the field. “You’re forced to produce, but it’s also a blessing. I know it’s probably hard for coach to manage the three’s playing time and stuff like that, but it’s a beautiful problem.”

Hamby was in the headlines when the Aces traded her after she was pregnant. In September of that year, she filed a federal discrimination complaint against the team and league, claiming she was traded because she was pregnant. The two sides resolved matters before trial.

The new CBA this year created a new rule that requires a pregnant player’s consent to be traded.

“I feel like she’s such an anomaly,” said forward Rae Burrell. “I remember when she had her son, and it was crazy because everybody was saying she was coming back so early, I thought that was insane, but now being her teammate, I see it, she’s just kind of a freak of nature, like she’s so athletic, she can do all types of things on the court that you think looks unorthodox, but she makes it happen, but also just love being her teammate. She’s just good people.”

Since that trade, she has been a regular in the Sparks’ starting lineup while averaging double-digit scoring and around eight rebounds per game. She’s one of the most efficient scorers in the league, too.

But Hamby’s games have been all over the board. Against the Aces, she missed all seven of her shots. Against Dallas and Indiana, she made six of eight shots. She’s had eight games with a shooting percentage above 60% and four games under 40%.

Sparks forward Dearica Hamby, left, tries to steal the ball from Mercury forward DeWanna Bonner during a game in Phoenix.

(Christian Petersen / Getty Images)

Having the three frontcourt players has been an adjustment for coach Lynne Roberts to find how to implement them all in the offense.

“I’m trying to implement the new offense, we’re plugging pieces into play, and things that I may have been able to do last year as freely I’m not as able to do this year,” Hamby said. “So just adjusting for sure, but I think that’s across the board for everybody.”

Before the season, Roberts said that Cameron Brink would come off the bench and Hamby would start. Brink, the only natural center on the team, averages just 17.5 minutes per game primarily because of her 3.7 fouls.

“She’s my vet,” Brink said of Hamby. “I think she’s just such a grounding force for us, and she’s someone that does everything, so I just really feel like I learn from her every day, and I’m just very thankful to be in her presence.”

Hamby averages 3.2 fouls per game and has expressed frustration about the new officiating norms this season, but has avoided true foul trouble. She and Ogwumike work as two fours instead of a team with a traditional five.

“She has a lot of energy,” Ogwumike said. “I think she does a really good job of just having a high motor and going out there and kind of like doing the dirty work. I feel like it’s beneficial to have a loaded frontcourt, to be able to have so many different types of players and a depth where anytime one of us is in, there’s no letdown.”

The Sparks have been the worst defensive team in the league this season and struggled to score when point guard Kelsey Plum was out of the lineup with an ankle injury. Ogwumike might be the other veteran leader, but Hamby has stayed with this Sparks team the past two seasons while Ogwumike was in Seattle.

Now her role has changed, even with that loyalty. She’s playing just over a minute less and they’re asking for better defense and efficiency.

Hamby chose to come back. Now she’s choosing to help build the Sparks up.

“I know my usage is a lot lower,” Hamby said. “A goal of mine the last two seasons was to have those numbers, so to have the same numbers just at a more efficient rate, and so I mean offensively, but with like two fewer shots a game, that’s pretty impressive.”

Some of us are booked and busy six days a week traveling to the Mamanuca Islands of Fiji by way of the current season of “Love Island USA.” But sometimes an escape needs an escape. Peacock has a new beachy series that adapts Elin Hilderbrand’s bestselling 2023 novel, “The Five-Star Weekend.”

Now streaming, the series stars Jennifer Garner as Hollis, a lifestyle influencer grieving the death of her husband who decides to host a getaway to Nantucket with old and new friends — played by Regina Hall, Chloë Sevigny, D’Arcy Carden and Gemma Chan — to try to heal. It’s primarily a story of grief, resilience and female camaraderie. But there are glimmers of romance, too, courtesy of Hollis’ childhood boyfriend Jack, played by Timothy Olyphant. It reunites Olyphant and Garner two decades after they starred in the 2006 romantic comedy “Catch & Release.” And it’s not the only series that features Olyphant this month. He’ll also appear in Apple TV’s “Lucky,” which premieres Wednesday with two episodes, as a con artist father to the titular character (Anya Taylor-Joy). Olyphant stopped by Guest Spot to discuss both series.

But this week didn’t just bring new summer launches. A look back at some of the standout series and performances from the recent season of television arrived Wednesday when 2026 Emmy nominations were announced. HBO Max’s “The Pitt” and “Hacks” led the pack — you can check out the full list of nominees here. But you may have more fun reading what our awards czar Glenn Whipp considered a snub or a surprise — come for his pitch-perfect Taylor Swift-Travis Kelce wedding comparison, stay for his astute observations. We also checked in with some of this year’s nominees: Rhea Seehorn (“Pluribus”), Sepideh Moafi (“The Pitt”) and Matthew Rhys (“Widow’s Bay”). (And, hey, if you’re a fan of “Widow’s Bay,” be sure to check out TV critic Robert Lloyd’s brilliant spotlight on K Callan, who has received well-earned praise for her turn as Ruth, the town’s forgetful secretary with a secret.)

Elsewhere in Screen Gab, our writers recommend two animated series that expand two beloved franchises. One focuses on the early days of your favorite “Adventure Time” duo, Finn the Human and Jake the Dog, the other revisits Marvel’s band of heroic mutants.

Meanwhile, I’ve been on my own nostalgia kick, revisiting episodes of “Tales From the Crypt” on Shudder. That decaying Crypt Keeper’s maniacal laugh, I fear, makes me feel like a kid again. Let’s see how long that lasts. See you next week!

— Yvonne Villarreal

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Recommendations from the film and TV experts at The Times

Finn and Jake in “Adventure Time: Side Quests.”

(Cartoon Network Studios)

“Adventure Time: Side Quests” (Disney+, Hulu)

We return to the Land of Ooo in the days when Finn the Human (now voiced by Sasha Knight, Jeremy Shada being almost 30) had not yet turned 13, and the order of the day was to go out and fight things. You’d think reviving a cartoon was easy — just draw the characters, make some similar voices — but we are talking about one of the greatest epics of this century, and I approached this revival with some trepidation. First, I looked to see whether longtime showrunner Adam Muto was still in charge, and he isn’t. But new captain Nate Cash is a veteran of the “Adventure Time” art department, wrote more than 40 episodes of “SpongeBob SquarePants” and was the supervising director on Patrick McHale’s great “Over the Garden Wall,” whose art director Nick Cross is the art director here. The new visual style, which dispenses with the usual outlines and detailing in favor of a sort of painterly Little Golden Book look, is jarring at first, but it grows on you — I mean, I’d buy an “Adventure Time” Little Golden Book — and keeps “Side Quests” from reading like a retread. The stories are good, the new monsters inventive. It’s got spunk. Most importantly, John DiMaggio is back as Jake the Dog, along with Tom Kenny as the Ice King, Olivia Olson as Marceline and Hynden Walch as Princess Bubblegum. Even series creator Pendleton Ward popped in to voice Lumpy Space Princess and write an episode — a seal of approval. — Robert Lloyd

A scene from Season 2 of Marvel’s “X-Men ’97.”

(Marvel)

“X-Men ‘97” (Disney+)

Regardless of whether you attribute it to “fatigue,” it’s no secret that comic book superhero stories have struggled to draw audiences to theaters these last few years. But some of the best offerings of the genre have been on TV. “X-Men ‘97” is a revival of one of my formative media experiences — “X-Men: The Animated Series.” Boasting some returning talent among the cast and creatives, “X-Men ‘97” continues the story of the iconic mutant team as they navigate being superheroes in a world that doesn’t always accept them for who they are. The first season leaned into some signature X-Men themes around tolerance, xenophobia and extremist violence while trying to thwart a superpowered genocidal human-android hybrid that wields an army of killer robots. The second season, which premiered earlier this month, picks up after the cliffhanger that saw members of the X-Men team scattered across time to cross paths with different versions of the powerful supervillain Apocalypse. Expect plenty of action, interpersonal tensions and philosophical dilemmas around destiny and morality. — Tracy Brown

Guest spot

A weekly chat with actors, writers, directors and more about what they’re working on — and what they’re watching

Timothy Olyphant in “Lucky.”

(Jessica Brooks / Apple TV)

Is it even July if Timothy Olyphant isn’t on your screen? Whether you prefer a breezy watch or a grifter thriller, the veteran actor has it covered. In Peacock’s “The Five-Star Weekend,” he plays the cool and charming high school sweetheart who softly orbits the show’s grief-stricken protagonist (Jennifer Garner) as she tries to heal from the death of her husband. The green flags are less obvious with his turn in Apple TV’s crime thriller “Lucky” as John Armstrong, an imprisoned father whose daughter (Anya Taylor-Joy) is on the run after the multimillion-dollar heist he got her caught up in collapses. It has the pair caught between a determined FBI agent (Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor) and the ruthless mob boss (Annette Bening).

And there’s more Olyphant in the pipeline. Production on Season 2 of FX’s “Alien: Earth” is underway. And later this year, he can be seen reprising his “Once Upon a Time in … Hollywood” character James Stacy — the true-life star of late-1960s western show “Lancer” — in David Fincher’s “The Adventures of Cliff Booth.” When does he sleep? When we caught him by phone in mid-June, he assured us he had just completed a lengthy nap. He discussed what it was like sharing screen time with Bening, reuniting with Garner and the small-time sports event that had his attention. — Y.V.

In “Lucky,” you’re playing a con artist who has brought his daughter into a criminal underworld. What did their father-daughter dynamic reveal to you?

There is something compelling about exploring a relationship in which a man has done a lot of damage to his kid without even seemingly knowing it. The idea of hurting your kids is like just the worst nightmare possible. The idea of doing it without even being aware of it makes it even worse. I knew [creator Jonathan] Tropper was behind it all, and he’s an extremely good writer, so I knew it was in good hands with exploring that material in a really elegant way.

You’re known for playing lawmen, but you have also played antagonists — both types of characters are often willing to cross lines or bend rules or sacrifice things to achieve what they see as the greater good. How do you think about those two types of figures?

I do find it compelling exploring the conflict between of feeling like you have to break rules in order to enforce rules and this idea of the original sin. Any interesting character has to be aware they’re capable of sin, except for maybe on “Law & Order,” but for the most part, life is complicated.

In the first two episodes of “Lucky,” your interactions are strictly with Anya and with Annette — both are dynamic performers at different stages in their careers. What stands out to you about sharing scenes with them?

Anya is really impressive because she has a composure and a strength to her that just seems beyond her years. I certainly didn’t have it when I was her age, and I just have a tremendous amount of respect for her and how she handled things on the other side of the camera,. And Annette is just a wonderfully unpredictable actor, take to take. You never see the same thing twice, and you never feel like you’re not playing in the right sandbox. It’s just a honor and a pleasure to work with her.

There’s a moment where Annette put her hand on your cheek — it terrified me.

Can I tell you? Only one take. And I’m smart enough to know, when that she did that, I thought to myself, “This is going to be on TV.”

Let’s also talk about “Five–Star Weekend.” Its focus is not necessarily on romance, but of friendship between women, but you do factor in as a flirtation of sorts for Jennifer Garner’s character. You’ve worked together before in 2006’s “Catch and Release.” How was it to reunite with her for this?

A pleasure. She’s a pro and gave just a wonderful performance in that show. It was easy-peasy working with her. I show up. They gave you a lot of cool things to say, and somebody hands you really cool wardrobe, the acting partner is really good, and so it makes the job pretty simple.

Timothy Olyphant as Jack and Jennifer Garner as Hollis in Peacock’s “The Five-Star Weekend.”

(Greg Gayne / Peacock)

You’re also reprising your “Once Upon a Time in … Hollywood” character James Stacy in David Fincher’s “The Adventures of Cliff Booth.” What’s it like being directed by him? How does he deliver a directing note?

That’s just that experience is really high up on the bucket list, and I just thank my lucky stars I had that opportunity. It was a very special experience.

He gives them [notes] out quite generously, is what he does. He gives you many and often, it’s really unlike anything I’ve experienced. I really enjoyed. It felt like a workout; it was this intense exploration of of the work. I hope I get another opportunity [to work with him]. I’d be thrilled.

You’re beginning production on Season 2 of “Alien: Earth.” What has it been like playing this android with bleached hair and eyebrows in this fictional world? The level of artistry of that set is quite something; I can’t imagine what it’s like being on that set.

It’s essentially child’s play, but sometimes it feels like you’re saying that with capital letters — this falls under that category. So many of the effects are practical, so many of the creatures are practical, so it’s a kick to be around that stuff. It’s a lot of oohing and aahing when you’re working with practical effects. And it’s about something. It’s got something to say. That’s pretty special when those two things come together.

Being on a set with those monsters that I watched as a kid, that I was thrilled watching those movies — to now wake up one day, and you’re part of that, you pinch yourself a little bit.

What can you tease about the new season?

It’s gonna get weird. There’s a lot going on on the surface and under the surface on this one.

Before I let you go, what show has your attention? I know you’ve been busy, so if you can’t tell me what you’ve watched recently, is there something you plan to watch on your long plane ride?

Does the World Cup count? I’ve got the World Cup fever. It’s just one of the greatest sporting events in the world.

Are you primarily rooting for us? Who are you going for?

What do you mean, am I rooting for us?

I mean, when we’re not playing, who are you rooting for?

I root for Brazil. My wife grew up in Brazil, so there’s a lot of Brazilian enthusiasm here in this house. I root too for our people to the north; I’m a fan of the Canadians. I just love that event. I love that it’s all these countries and everything evens out on that grass. It’s pretty great.

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We did it! America made it to 250 years of existence!

OK, not everyone may be feeling especially celebratory as we hit the semiquincentennial, as culture critic Mary McNamara wrote in her essay this week, but we can still find some solace in wanting to do better and be better. I’ve always believed the arts are a reflection of the heart and soul of a people. And in a country as multicultural and diverse as ours, that can look very many different ways. While it’s true that social media and the internet at large has siloed us, nothing stays the same and, like it or not, change and progress are very much at the root of America’s existence, as is acceptance of different ways of living. What makes this country great are those varied experiences and how art can be an entryway to them.

It’s among the ideas that my colleagues dug into this week as they examined culture through the lens of America’s 250th anniversary, detailing 10 films that capture America in times of profound change, the quintessential American song, artworks that redefine what it is to be American, what literature belongs in the American canon, how playwrights have embraced the country’s diversity and why orchestras have been sitting out this Fourth of July. Television critic Robert Lloyd also wrote about a number of recent series, both historical and satirical, that take a closer look at America’s history (you will learn, laugh, cry or all three).

If that gives you enough inspiration, there are several Fourth of July events to watch over the weekend, including traditions like the “Macy’s 4th of July Fireworks Show,” now in its 50th edition, on NBC, Telemundo and Peacock, and Nathan’s Hot Dog Eating Contest on ESPN and ABC as part of their “Disney Celebrates America” programming. If you’re looking for something fresh, the America250 initiative will be streaming a ball drop from Times Square in New York beginning Friday night, which CNN is also covering via “Independence Eve Live With Anderson & Andy: Celebrating 250,” a New Year’s Eve-style production with Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen. Similarly, PBS will be broadcasting “A Capitol Fourth: 250th Weekend Celebration” from the U.S. Capitol and from George Washington’s home in Mount Vernon. It will feature performances from the National Symphony Orchestra, Trace Adkins, Patti LaBelle, Kool & The Gang and more.

On Saturday, America250 will stream “America’s Block Party” from the L.A. Memorial Coliseum, which features performances by Chris Stapleton, the Smashing Pumpkins, Chaka Khan and Anthony Ramos. CBS will also air some of those acts on “The Great American Block Party 250,” along with performances from the Washington Monument in Washington, D.C., by the Zac Brown Band, Jon Batiste, Goo Goo Dolls and the War and Treaty (it will also stream on Paramount+).

In keeping with this week’s theme, we’ve also rounded up several series and films that we recommend watching over the long holiday weekend that tell a story about America or Americans in all their glory — imperfect, diverse and unique. Now that’s something to celebrate. — Maira Garcia

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Recommendations from the film and TV experts at The Times

“The Americans” (Hulu)

Matthew Rhys as Philip and Keri Russell as Elizabeth in “The Americans.”

(FX )

This series may seem like an odd choice to recommend during the July 4 holiday, particularly when the main characters are driven by values that are pointedly un-American. The FX series, which concluded its six-season run in 2013, stars real-life couple Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys as Russian spies posing as a suburban couple living in Washington in 1981. Critics celebrated the drama as the couple took on their assignments to undermine the U.S. government while also concealing their true identities from their friendly neighbor — an FBI counterintelligence agent — and their two American-born children. Their journey is further complicated as they grow more attached to American lifestyles and values. Rhys, who is currently stirring up awards season buzz with his lead roles in Apple TV‘s “Widow’s Bay” and Netflix’s “The Beast in Me,” won an Emmy for lead actor in a drama during the show’s final season. Fans of “The Americans” are still shaken by the memory of the devastating series finale. — Greg Braxton

“Spirit of ’76” (VOD)

Jeff McDonald, left, David Cassidy and Steven McDonald in “The Spirit of ’76.”

(Philosophical Research Society)

In this energetic, colorful, low-budget 1990 ode to the bicentennial year, travelers from a colorless 2176 attempt to travel to 1776 to reclaim foundational knowledge lost when “the magnetic storm degaussed all recorded history.” They arrive instead on July 4, 1976, where a different sort of freedom holds sway — freedom to get down, freedom to boogie. It’s a friends-and-family affair, written and directed by Lucas Reiner, with appearances by his brother Rob and father Carl; a story co-authored by Roman Coppola; and costumes by his sister Sofia. David Cassidy and Olivia d‘Abo star as among the visitors from the future; Leif Garrett (like Cassidy, a 1970s TV and pop idol) is a disco-mad lothario. Also on board are Tommy Chong, Barbara Bain, Don Novello, Moon Zappa and performance artists the Kipper Kids as men in black. Julie Brown is a sex worker who has something to say about the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that will sound distressingly timely. Brothers Jeff and Steve McDonald — from the band Redd Kross, and not playing brothers — are the bike-riding, long-haired, slang-slinging teens who join in to help the time travelers accomplish their mission. One word: tetrahydrozoline. — Robert Lloyd

“The Simpsons” (Disney+, Hulu)

“The Simpsons” has long been an American staple on television.

(The Simpsons © 2025 by 20th Television)

With more than 800 episodes across 37 seasons, “The Simpsons” is basically on track to reaching its own semiquincentennial milestone. Its relevance in today’s landscape may be debated, but the animated series has audaciously and consistently captured the American experience with its piercing satire about societal and cultural events and shifts, as well as its reflections on the frustrations and absurdities of daily life for a middle-class family living in a quintessential American suburb — an ideal that has long stood as a standard of success for generations of Americans and now feels like a fantasy for many who still strive for it. (Insert GIF of Homer disappearing into a shrub here.) It’s one of the most entertaining time capsules of a good chunk of America’s run so far. And hey, there are plenty of July 4 episodes to pre-game, pair with, or distract from your social obligations. — Yvonne Villarreal

“American Movie” (VOD)

Bill Borchardt, left, and Mark Borchardt in the documentary “American Movie.”

(Sony Pictures Classics)

One of the breakout documentaries of the ’90s, Chris Smith’s portrait of aspiring Wisconsin filmmaker Mark Borchardt suggests that if you want to understand America, you could do worse than spend some time in his company. Borchardt has no Hollywood connections, no money and seemingly no realistic path to finishing his low-budget horror movie “Coven” (which he stubbornly insists on pronouncing “COE-ven”). Working the graveyard shift at a cemetery and battling his own drinking, he somehow keeps persuading friends and relatives to help him inch the film toward completion. The movie is often hilarious but it never makes Borchardt the punchline, leaving open the question of whether he’s a genuine outsider artist or simply incapable of recognizing impossible odds. When he starts feeling sorry for himself, he has a way of snapping out of it: “No one has ever, ever paid admission to see an excuse.” As America marks its 250th birthday, with so many of the country’s problems seeming unsolvable, Borchardt reminds us that impossible sometimes just means unfinished. — Josh Rottenberg

“Reservation Dogs” (Hulu, Disney+)

Willie Jack (Paulina Alexis), Elora Danan Postoak (Devery Jacobs), Bear (D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai) and Cheese (Lane Factor) in “Reservation Dogs.”

(Shane Brown / FX)

This is perhaps too on the nose, but what is the story of America without Native Americans and Indigenous storytellers? Don’t worry, “Reservation Dogs” is not meant to be a history lesson. A coming-of-age dramedy, the series follows a group of teenagers living in a small town in the Muscogee Nation in rural Oklahoma. Culturally specific and infinitely relatable, the teens are grieving one of their own as they navigate familiar perils of adolescence: future aspirations (or lack thereof), relationships and rivalries, family and more as they grow into who they are meant to be. Created by Sterlin Harjo and Taika Waititi, the show was celebrated for its representational milestones both in front and behind the camera for the entirety of its three season run. But what keeps this show on my perpetual rewatch list is its humor, heart and endless humanity. And Cheese! — Tracy Brown

“Star Trek: Strange New Worlds” (Paramount+)

Una (Rebecca Romijn), Capt. Pike (Anson Mount) and Spock (Ethan Peck) in “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds.”

(Marni Grossman / Paramount+)

Despite being set on a starship traveling through the far reaches of space, “Star Trek” is a quintessentially American show that celebrates very American ideals and aspirations. The franchise depicts a future where good people want to do good, are endlessly curious, believe in justice and diplomacy and strive to maintain peace. They’re also willing to fight for what they believe in. “Strange New Worlds,” though created in our modern streaming times, captures a lot of the spirit and swagger of the original series — and not just because it features some characters that originated there. The show follows Capt. Christopher Pike (Anson Mount) and the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise as they explore strange new worlds and boldly go where no one has gone before. Pike wields a kind of empathetic, nice dad next door charm and all the capabilities of a decorated starship officer, which makes him a perfect ambassador for his exploratory mission. He’d probably also make a good host of a big Fourth of July backyard bash. — T.B.

“Mo” (Netflix)

Mo Amer in Season 2 of his eponymous Netflix series.

(Eddy Chen / Netflix)

The immigrant experience has been portrayed in a number of films and series over the years — though I’d argue there still aren’t enough. This series created by and starring comedian Mo Amer captures not only the realities of navigating the American immigration system, with its draconian requirements and regulations, but also the experience of multicultural life in the melting pot that is Houston, Texas. Here, Amer plays a fictional version of himself, a Palestinian refugee who is trying to get legal status while encountering personal and professional roadblocks at every turn. It’s funny and melodramatic, occasionally veering into silliness, but it brilliantly highlights the very real struggle of finding your place in the world when you don’t know where you can call home or where you belong (the Spanish saying, ni de aqui, ni de alla, neither from here nor there, applies). And it’s one of the very few humanizing onscreen depictions of the Palestinian American experience. — Maira Garcia

“Pose” (Hulu) and “Fellow Travelers” (Paramount+)

Mj Rodriguez as Blanca and Billy Porter as Pray Tell in “Pose.” (FX)

Tim (Jonathan Bailey) and Hawk (Matt Bomer) in “Fellow Travelers.” (Ben Mark Holzberg / Showtime)

The struggle for gay rights has been a long chapter in American history and in the case of these two series, one depicts it through New York’s ballroom scene and the other through the halls of Washington. “Fellow Travelers,” created by Ron Nyswaner and based on Thomas Mallon’s novel of the same name, depicts the romance between Hawkins “Hawk” Fuller (Matt Bomer) and Timothy “Tim” Laughlin (Jonathan Bailey) beginning in the 1950s during the height of McCarthyism and the Lavender Scare and goes through the decades, culminating with the AIDS crisis of the ‘80s. If you want a good cry this weekend, start here. “Pose,” meanwhile, is at turns celebratory and heartbreaking as it depicts the experience of a group of Black and Latino members of the ball scene in the ‘80s and ‘90s. The series highlights the opulent costumes and performers in drag who would leave it all on the floor for a chance at glory among their peers, but also the interpersonal relationships and challenges faced by trans characters like Blanca (Mj Rodriguez, who scored an Emmy nomination for her performance in 2021), Elektra (Dominique Jackson) and Angel (Indya Moore), as well as gay characters like Pray Tell (the inimitable Billy Porter). Both shows are reminders that LGBTQ+ rights were hard won and that the struggle continues. — M.G.

ICYMI

Must-read stories you might have missed

Like a good striker, Folarin Balogun never loses sight of the goal. And the goal for the U.S. team in this summer’s World Cup hasn’t been just to win, which they’ve done, but to inspire.

And that’s how Balogun found himself on the field, shaking hands with Brazilian referee Raphael Claus, about 45 minutes after Claus gave him a controversial red card in Wednesday’s win over Bosnia-Herzegovina, a red card that will keep him out of Monday’s round-of-16 game with Belgium.

“Little kids are watching, and we have to show them the correct way to handle things, even when you think it’s unjust,” Balogun said Friday.

“It’s not an excuse to be disrespectful, to not do the right thing. I’m aware that the World Cup might be the first time a lot of American viewers are tuning in. So it’s important, whether things happen to you good or bad, just to continue to be yourself.”

That doesn’t mean Balogun didn’t think the red card was unjust. He does. And he definitely thinks something bad happened to him and his team since Balogun, the Americans’ leading scorer with three goals in as many games, will have to sit out the team’s most important game in a generation.

It’s just means that Balogun, who celebrated his 25th birthday Friday, is also mature enough to understand a game — even a World Cup elimination game — is just a game.

“It’s been a roller coaster,” he said before the team’s training session at the University of Washington. “There’s been lots of different emotions. I’ve been upset, I’ve been happy. But for me, it was just important to stay calm. I never want to react out of anger and out of emotion.”

Balogun, who had given his team a 1-0 lead in the waning seconds of the first half, collided with Tarik Muharemovic 16 minutes into the second half, and when the Bosnian defender planted his right leg below Balogun’s right foot, the American inadvertently stomped on his right ankle, twisting it awkwardly.

U.S. forward Folarin Balogun steps on Bosnia-Herzegovina defender Tarik Muharemovic’s foot and received a red card.

(Robert Gauthier/Los Angeles Times)

Both players went down and Claus did not signal a foul or pull card. But after the video assistant referee urged him to watch a replay, Claus walked away from the monitor and flashed the red card. That left the U.S. to finish Wednesday’s game with just 10 men and disqualified Balogun for Monday’s game. U.S. Soccer said Friday FIFA’s disciplinary committee did not add any games to Balogun’s suspension.

“There’s the scenarios that you simply can’t avoid,” he said, “and it has to be taken into context when it’s being reviewed. I felt it wasn’t on this occasion. There’s nowhere else to put your leg. It’s going to be unavoidable.

“I think a yellow card would have been fair. [But] it’s something that’s happened, so we have to move forward, and I have to accept it. The most important thing is just to focus on the bigger picture, which is Belgium.”

Replacing Balogun won’t be easy since he’s emerged as one of the team’s most effective and creative players, either scoring of setting up the go-ahead goal in all three of the U.S. wins.

“We’ve got guys that can fill in and have to be ready for the opportunity to step up,” midfielder Tyler Adams said. “When you miss a player like Balo, obviously things change a little bit. But we’ve been flexible. Guys have shown that they’re ready to play.”

The most likely replacements are Ricardo Pepi and Haji Wright. Pepi, who scored 16 goals for PSV in the Dutch Eredivisie this season, played 90 minutes in place of Balogun in the U.S. loss to Turkey in the final group-stage match. Wright, who had 17 goals for Coventry City in the English Championship, played in all four U.S. games in the 2022 World Cup, scoring once, but he has made just one appearance in this summer’s tournament.

“Balo is an important part of our team, and it’s a disappointing way for him to miss the next game,” said Wright, who grew up in Culver City and spent three years in the Galaxy academy. “But, I’ll always be ready and prepared for whatever comes.”

A victory over Belgium would send the U.S. to the quarterfinals of a World Cup for just the second time. It would also give it four wins in the tournament, double the number of victories in any previous World Cup and marking the first time the Americans have won twice in the knockout stages in the same tournament.

U.S. forward Ricardo Pepi pursues the ball during a World Cup match against Bosnia-Herzegovina at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara , Calif., on Wednesday.

(Robert Gauthier/Los Angeles Times)

It’s a moment, Adams acknowledged Friday, many players have waited for their whole lives.

“You need to embrace the moment, that’s for sure,” he said. “To have the opportunity to play in a round-of-16 game — which, obviously, last World Cup we did, but it was the first knockout game, not the second — it’s exciting. It was nice to get a little bit of a taste of what it feels like to play with something a little bit more on the line in the last game. I think that’s good preparation.

“Advancing and taking this thing as far as we can is the most important thing. We have a good opportunity here to do so.”

In an era hallmarked by what experts call a “sex recession,” Six Sex is a symbol of liberation.

The Argentine baddie fashions herself as a baby-voiced, bikini-clad fembot, beamed in from the clubs of Buenos Aires — and has become known for cheeky, instructive celebrations of desire. Her songs are designed to galvanize like-minded club rats into Dionysian revelry, or, in the case of the song “How to Make Your Ass Bigger,” squats.

To a certain subset of the Latine underground, she represents a pure-hearted hypersexuality. Yet, for the artist behind the persona, Francisca Agustina Cuello, this wasn’t always the intention.

“I don’t know if it was because I still had to keep my innocence or what, but I didn’t envision the project that way,” she said, calling from a hotel room in Barcelona. “That response sort of came about from the people, towards me. So, I said OK, I’m making it my own.”

In doing so, Cuello has churned out six thumping EPs as Six Sex, a campy character that she describes as a “fable” — a mix of “fantasía y hedonismo.”

That dynamic is taken to extremes on her debut album, “Ultra”, released June 6. It’s a dark and propulsive journey through decades of electronic dance music, best described by its own opening words portending “ultra terrorific fantasy.” (The phrase conjures up images of grandeur, but really, it evokes that “Blades of Glory” quote: “no one knows what it means, but it’s provocative.”)

“I feel like nothing I say is all that serious,” she said about her lyrics. “It’s a thing about my personality to be silly and goof around.”

“Ultra” centers Cuello’s winking, suggestive sense of humor. “Not Your Mom” features a conversation with a garbled, omnipotent voice akin to the parents in Charlie Brown; “FUchi!” features schoolyard taunts about “low dickie energy;” the album ends with “No More Porn,” a playful yet powerful subversion of sexual expectations.

“At the same time, for me, that acts as a filter,” she added with a laugh. “Weeding out the people who get scandalized by it, and identifying the people who get it and say: ‘Yas, yo también quiero tener cuatro novios.’”

Earlier this year, Cuello took the stage at Don Quixote, performing in front of a sold-out crowd for her Los Angeles debut. The smell of sweat permeated the air as she ripped through several of her hits — including collaborations with Reysha Rami and German producer MCR-T. Every single one of her signature ponytail flips sent the room into hysterics. The audience screamed every word at the top of their lungs; it was the loudest, most raucous show I’d been to in years.

Cuello took a breather in the middle of her world tour to chat with De Los over Zoom about all things Six Sex: her new record, her writing style and how it feels to connect with fans spun into febrile intensity.

This interview has been condensed for clarity and was translated from Spanish to English.

“[I’m] weeding out the people who get scandalized,” says Six Sex of her provocative music.

(Catalina Jacobo)

I was really taken by the “Ultra” album cover. You’re wearing a white bikini and in this “come to Jesus” pose. What was the goal?
[laughs] It was hard, because I wanted the cover to represent what the entire journey of the album meant to me. I was looking for something strong and heavy in visual terms, because with “Ultra”, this is the first time I’ve finished a long, heavy project and I see the start of something. It’s like something new was unlocked. I found a new way to convey feelings, and a new way to create as well. It’s not like I just finished, and it is what it is. Rather, it is the beginning of something bigger.

Is there an element of separation at all between the artistry and you as a person?
I think they’re pretty close. It’s as if Six Sex was sort of a fable, or like a hentai or comic [version of] my life. It’s also happened that things I wrote as a joke later became reality. But generally, I draw inspiration from things that actually happened to me.

Is it weird to put those intimate experiences on an album?
No, not for me. Because I’m not speaking so seriously, I don’t feel exposed. Even though my persona and my character are very close to one another, I don’t have to prove anything to anyone. I’m not trying to make you believe in something. The songs stop being about me as soon as someone else listens to them. There are certain things we can all see ourselves represented in, and I think my music aims for that, too.

I want to ask about your performance style. I saw you live in Los Angeles and was really taken by the energy exchange between yourself and the crowd. How do you approach live performance?
Nowadays, I’m in a balance between performance and being a human being that connects with people and can pause to look in the eyes of the audience to register how they feel. I like being in a showgirl role, and at the same time, knowing when to step out of it.

Sometimes I go up there after having a crappy day, thinking that I’m gonna screw it up. And when I get up there and connect with the people, everything flows in a perfect way.

Does the music transform when it’s performed live, versus on a record? A lot of your music seems designed to be played in the club.
I think it’s very personal. For me, I’m a bit autistic; sometimes when I’m at a show, I get different sensations. It really depends on the person. I like seeing people’s reactions live when I start playing these songs for the first time. People were super hyped. They were enjoying them and jumping around a lot. It feels really fresh.

You reference ‘90s club classics all over “Ultra,” including by U.K. band the Prodigy on “Bitch Up.” How did these sounds come into your life?
These sounds evoke a special kind of nostalgia for me. Even though I hadn’t been listening to them lately, they sounded like something I wanted to bring back to the table — songs my uncle used to listen to when I was really young. Like a CD [of] pirated songs that somehow ended up at my house, and at the time I was like, “Wow, what is this music?”

There’s an element of Six Sex that gives “fembot,” like a female, sexy robot. I’m curious if you feel that playing out in your work.
[laughs] I didn’t know about the fembot thing. I don’t use Twitter. I [keep] a bubble… against some things that I don’t know. But I’ve always liked the idea that people have that perception of me, to some extent.

How do you feel about the rise of AI as a musician, especially considering your persona adopts that perception?
I mean… I don’t have a formed opinion on the matter. I do think that, I don’t know, it’s all very relative. For one thing, I obviously feel like it strips away the human value, but at the same time, it’s also a tool for humans. So it’s kind of contradictory. I feel weird about it…. I don’t know.

Zooming out, I’ve noticed Argentina has been having a musical moment over the last few years between yourself, Ca7riel y Paco Amoroso, Juana Rozas… How do you feel Argentina being represented or even challenged in your music?
I feel that culturally, Argentina is a very rich country. However, I do feel like, over generations, a paradigm was broken, and new sounds have been created that don’t necessarily abandon the roots of our music, but were created out of counterculture.

That same kind of counterculture is what makes Argentina be in such turmoil. It’s also the context of our country. Economic, political, social. The key Argentinian figures we refer to nowadays are constantly changing. And that allows you to listen to a variety of genres from Argentina, from people doing different things, and at the same time raising the flag and saying: “Yo soy argentino.” And we love that.

WASHINGTON — As America’s 250th birthday arrives this weekend, President Trump’s mark is clearly visible on Washington.

Visitors to the nation’s capital are being met with cranes hanging over the White House and construction at the site of the demolished East Wing. Fences crisscrossing the National Mall to hem in the Great American State Fair have blocked the famed sightline from the U.S. Capitol to the Washington Monument to the Lincoln Memorial.

Some fountains newly sparkle as a result of Trump’s renovations. National Guardsmen patrol the sidewalks. The partisan flavor of the Trump-aligned Freedom 250 organization’s events is on display, and the fireworks show Saturday will feature a rally-style speech from Trump, with fireworks reportedly pushed back to 11 p.m.

President Trump examines the maintenance work Wednesday on the exterior of the White House.

(Alex Wong / Getty Images)

The memorial’s Reflecting Pool, where fireworks will be set off Saturday, was barricaded from the public earlier than usual after onlookers flocked last week to see the algae and peeling paint that followed Trump’s renovation, and Trump accused vandals of tampering with it.

“You don’t have a sense of ‘land of the free’ here,” said Melissa McFarlane, 61, standing along the fencing on the Mall. She said she was born in Silver Spring, Md., and she grew up watching July 4 fireworks on the Mall with her parents.

She recalled the nation’s 200th anniversary celebrations as “open and inviting” but said this year’s “heavy-duty fencing” and the presence of National Guardsmen made it feel different.

“It’s majorly disorganized, which is weird for our country,” McFarlane added.

A sign outside Lafayette Park near the White House.

(Julia Demaree Nikhinson / Associated Press)

Trump has fixated on making changes to the nation’s capital in his second term, declaring in an early executive order that his administration would make the district “safe and beautiful.” Some of the renovations have been successful; fountains are running anew, including the long-dormant cascading water feature at the city’s popular Meridian Hill Park.

Interior Secretary Doug Burgum said Sunday on “Fox & Friends” that more than 50 parks and circles have been restored and 22 fountains, along with repairs to lights on the National Mall.

“President Trump should be thanked for all he is doing to leave things better than he found them for the good of our great nation,” an Interior Department spokesperson said in a statement. “D.C. residents and visitors are experiencing working fountains, clean parks and safe streets across the district for the first time in decades, all thanks to President Donald J. Trump.”

But Trump’s growing slate of projects has drawn legal challenges from preservationist groups and raised questions about the cost to taxpayers. The $14.7-million repainting of the Reflecting Pool became particularly controversial last month after algae overtook the renovated pool and the new paint appeared to peel off.

On Sunday, the president took a tour of some of his construction sites, walking through Lafayette Park with Burgum before traveling to the East Potomac golf club he plans to renovate, which sits on federal land. Trump walked part of the property and inspected blueprints in view of reporters; he was then driven by the site where he wants to erect a marble arch.

Over the weekend, he posted on Truth Social about his improvements to the city in a post about D.C. mayoral candidate Janeese Lewis George, casting it as a “Safe and Prestigious Community” that is now at risk of being “destroyed” by Lewis George.

“I have worked too hard to make Washington, D.C., the Envy of the World, with almost No Crime, and a Beautification process that has been second to none,” Trump wrote.

Construction crews build scaffolding outside the Kennedy Center on June 13 before removing President Trump’s name from the venue’s exterior.

(Tasos Katopodis / Getty Images)

Involvement by presidents in the city’s plan goes back to George Washington, said Matthew J. Bell, an architecture professor at the University of Maryland. That is not unusual, nor is it strange for cities, including Washington, to change over time, he said.

“It’s probably more a matter of timing in terms of inconvenience for people coming for the Fourth,” Bell said of the ongoing construction. “If there had been a more coordinated plan for some of these things … it probably could’ve been managed better.”

At the National Mall, the fencing design for the state fair drew head shakes and confusion from some tourists. Visitors are corralled into a walkway by the Freedom 250-branded fencing on one side and low metal barriers on the other.

It’s normal for fencing to be used to control foot traffic for events on the mall, said Charles A. Birnbaum, chief executive of the Cultural Landscape Foundation, but he perceived the problem as slapdash placement, including of the Ferris wheel, which was put on the mall’s axis.

“Things are being plopped down,” said Birnbaum, whose organization sued the administration over the repainting of the Reflecting Pool. “It speaks to what Trump is doing at the ballroom, what he’s proposed [with] the arch — he’s just plopping these things down in major view sheds that have major historical and cultural significance.”

People walk past the Ferris wheel at the Great American State Fair on the National Mall.

(Jen Golbeck / Associated Press)

The fountains in Lafayette Park are running again near the White House on June 23.

(Andrew Harnik / Getty Images)

The state fair itself has drawn relatively few crowds, though some attendees have been enthusiastic.

On Monday, McFarlane and two friends were outside the fencing, leaning against the metal barriers in front of the Department of Agriculture, which faces the National Mall.

“It’s a little too secure,” said one of them, John, 60, who was visiting from Burbank and declined to give his last name.

He gestured over the barrier to a manicured plot with shady benches. “Here’s the People’s Garden,” he said, reading its sign, “and we can’t go in.”

A construction crane works on the White House ballroom on Monday.

(Julia Demaree Nikhinson / Associated Press)

Visitors take photos Tuesday of a model of President Trump’s proposed marble arch at the Great American State Fair on the National Mall.

(Mark Schiefelbein / Associated Press)

Early-morning joggers observer the refilling of the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool on June 5.

(John McDonnell / Associated Press)

The anniversary celebrations also come on the heels of the reflecting pool controversy. Last week, after chunks of paint were spotted in the water, Trump blamed vandals for tampering with the pool and said people had been arrested at the site. Two dead ducks were found in a pond about 250 feet away from the pool.

The area last week was surrounded by surveillance cameras and patrolled by National Guardsmen as lifelong resident John Cates strolled the area.

“It’s kind of creepy,” Cates said about the security cameras mounted around the pool. “It is unnecessary that we have to have this pond deemed a high security risk. That is weird.”

The area was fenced off at the end of last week. Fencing normally occurs in preparation for the July 4 fireworks show, but it went up “a couple days early to protect the pool,” Burgum said in the Fox News interview. He said seven people had been arrested in connection with the pool.

Tom Ayers, 34, was disappointed to find the fences already up on Monday. He traveled with his father from Wisconsin for the 250th, but they were finding it difficult to get around the Mall and they were upset to see the East Wing gone.

When they reached Lafayette Park, where the fencing had yet to be removed, they were again disappointed by the obscured view of the White House. Ayers’ father recalled a different scene in 1976, when he visited as a child for the nation’s bicentennial.

“I was kind of hoping for a summer similar to that,” Ayers said, “but overall, it seems nowhere close.”

Times staff writer Ana Ceballos in Washington contributed to this report.

How well do you remember your U.S. history class from high school or college? Did some of the key moments in America’s 250 years of existence involve Larry David playing a founding father? OK, maybe not, but it’s fun to imagine what that would be like. And that’s precisely what David and Jeff Schaffer have done with their new HBO series “Life, Larry and the Pursuit of Unhappiness.”

The series, premiering Friday, is a timely look at some of America’s big moments in history with a comedic twist that will remind viewers of “Curb Your Enthusiasm,” partly because it also features some cast members from the show. The series arrives on the cusp of the 250th anniversary of America’s founding, and offers an alternative history that’s still steeped in facts. Schaffer stopped by Guest Spot to talk about creating the series with David and what it was like to work with former President Obama.

Speaking of laughter, if you like yours with a whole lot of drama, FX dropped the final season of “The Bear” Thursday on Hulu. The series, which premiered in 2022 and made phrases like “cousin,” “yes, chef,” and “every second counts” memorable, ties up a lot of strings for its crew of chefs. Jeremy Allen White and Ayo Edebiri, the actors who were at the center of the show for five seasons, spoke to us about “The Bear” coming to a close, where their characters end up and what it feels like to leave them behind (be forewarned, the interview has lots of spoilers).

The finale feels like a fitting end to one of the best shows of the past decade (so far) — but we won’t say much more. Enjoy each episode like a multi-course meal at a fine-dining restaurant. You’ll want to savor each bite before it’s over.

Also in this week’s Screen Gab, our writers recommend an animated series with monsters and mystery and a documentary about one of America’s greatest bands. I’ll get my flags, fireworks and BBQ supplies ready in the meantime. — Maira Garcia

Turn on

Recommendations from the film and TV experts at The Times

Bobby and Romy in Disney+’s “The Doomies.”

(Disney)

“The Doomies” (Disney+)

If you’re missing “Widow’s Bay,” and like cartoons, here’s another tale of monsters loose in a coastal tourist town, with the difference that the town, called “Ouimpre,” is decidedly on the Atlantic coast of northwest France. (It’s a Franglais pun.) There are half-timbered buildings; what used to be a Camembert factory after it was a beret factory; a cafe that serves crepes, not pancakes; and boulangeries, not bakeries. (It’s a French production; Disney encouraged animator Andrés Fernandez to go local.) As in “Stranger Things,” which no one may be missing by now, the protagonists are kids — Romy, who is excitable and impulsive, and Bobby, who is neither — abetted by a formidable female teenage demon slayer and a lighthouse keeper with occult knowledge. The series is energetic, funny and character-driven — even the monsters. The action is well-staged and intense, the color palette moody and evocative, and the design not at all reminiscent of a hundred other cartoons, which makes the show refreshing as well as fun. — Robert Lloyd

Earth, Wind & Fire in HBO’s “Earth, Wind & Fire (To Be Celestial vs. That’s The Weight Of The World)”

(Jeffrey Mayer / HBO)

“Earth, Wind & Fire (To Be Celestial vs. That’s the Weight of the World)” (HBO Max)

Even if you think you don’t know Earth, Wind & Fire, chances are they’ve soundtracked a wedding, bar mitzvah, awkward office party or some other memorable celebration in your life. Somewhere between “Shining Star,” “Let’s Groove” and “September,” the band mastered the art of coaxing three or four generations of a family onto the same dance floor. Questlove’s new documentary explores how that happened. If his recent Sly Stone film examined how genius can curdle into self-destruction, this one asks a different question: How did Earth, Wind & Fire founder Maurice White build something that lasted? Abandoned by his mother as a child, White set out to create not just a band but a family, assembling a sprawling ensemble around a musical and spiritual vision. Questlove is too thoughtful a filmmaker to sand down the rough edges. White emerges as both inspiring and flawed: a gifted bandleader, spiritual seeker and demanding perfectionist whose drive sometimes came at a personal cost. Drawing on interviews with everyone from former bandmates to Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie and Barack and Michelle Obama, Questlove builds a portrait of White that never shies away from his contradictions. In the process, he shows how White’s fascination with spirituality, Egyptology and the cosmic unknown shaped both the band’s music and mythology. You may occasionally wish the film lingered longer on the performances themselves (for a reminder of what made Earth, Wind & Fire such a formidable live act, start with the 1975 concert album “Gratitude”). But by the end, you have a deeper appreciation for the band’s unlikely feat: turning something so eccentric into something so universal. — Josh Rottenberg

Guest spot

A weekly chat with actors, writers, directors and more about what they’re working on — and what they’re watching

Larry David in “Life, Larry and the Pursuit of Unhappiness.”

(John Johnson / HBO)

Is Larry David about to be the most entertaining (and crankiest) history teacher America has ever had?

To celebrate the arrival of the nation’s semiquincentennial, the comedian teamed up with Barack and Michelle Obama’s Higher Ground Productions to revisit the truth of our history with some comedic chaos. The result is “Life, Larry and the Pursuit of Unhappiness,” a seven-episode sketch comedy series from the mind of David and his longtime “Curb Your Enthusiasm” collaborator Jeff Schaffer that pairs reenactments of seminal milestones from America’s past with David’s misanthropic humor — or, as its creators dub it, “‘Curb’ in costume.” Subtitled “An Almost History of America,” it features a star-studded roster of actors dressing up in period clothes alongside David, including “Curb’s” Jeff Garlin, J.B. Smoove and Susie Essman, as well as Bill Hader, Kathryn Hahn, Jon Hamm and Jerry Seinfeld. The first episode premieres Friday at 9 p.m. ET/PT on HBO and will stream on HBO Max.

Over a video call, Schaffer discussed the show’s genesis, former President Obama’s improv skills and the British TV series that has him entertained. — Yvonne Villarreal

Tell me about getting into business with the Obamas. Their production company approached Larry. How did it evolve into this?

Larry and President Obama know each other a little bit. They really enjoy each other’s company, or at least Larry enjoys needling Obama, and Obama really enjoys needling Larry. The moment that we all met together to have our first meeting, the first thing Obama does — I’ve never met the president [prior]— he starts just ragging on Larry’s golf game, and how he wears so much sunscreen on the golf course. And Larry just goes to President Obama, “Oh, I’m sorry, my dad’s not from Kenya.” And that’s how it started. They have a great rapport and they wanted to do something special for the 250th [anniversary]. Larry says no to everything — his best friend can be having a premiere of a movie, and Larry will go, “Where is it in Hollywood?” But Larry’s not going, that’s too far. When this came around, Larry was like, “Huh, that’s actually pretty interesting.” He responded right away to the historical nature of it because, as he would say, he’s an American history buff.

The genesis for Larry and I is that we had done a tiny test run of this with that FTX ad for the Super Bowl a few years back. I don’t know, whatever happened to those people — I’m sure they’re fine — but he remembered how much fun he had being in costume. And honestly, I think he forgot how much he hated being in a wig. It’s like childbirth, enough time had passed.

Given the sort of tenor of the times, why does this type of comedic look at America’s history feel like the appropriate way to mark this anniversary?

It’s the 250th and I get that celebrating the country right now may feel like throwing a birthday party for your friend who’s in rehab — he’s all f— up — but we still love him, right? There’s a way to look at the country’s history, warts and all, the two steps forward and the one step back. And I think one of the best ways to do that is through comedy.

Going back to President Obama — what are the negotiations to get him to appear in it? Or was that on the table from the beginning?

Once I saw the two of them interact together, that became my primary mission. We’ll write the sketches, and we’ll do the documentary stuff, we’ll make it all historical and fun, whatever, but we have to get you two on screen together. It was also sort of the promise of the show, too. When I originally talked to Amy Gravitt at HBO about it, I remember I said, “What if I could give you a show that brought together two people half of America loves?”

What was it like directing them in a scene together? He gives the opening remarks at the start of the show.

He is a truly inspiring, amazing human being who also happens to have great comedic timing. He and Larry get into a groove immediately, which is very fun, and it was honestly one of the coolest things I’ve ever done in my life, directing them. The president said, “I guess I like being annoyed by Larry. Once we get together, I start sounding like him.” It’s like Larry’s this black hole of negativity that sucked Obama in for these brief periods of time; it was just fun.

Is he good at improv then on the spot like that?

Yes, he is. He’s got some really funny stuff in the sketch they’re in together that is all him — 100% the president.

Do you have a favorite moment from this first episode — it features the Declaration of Independence, segregation and Rosa Parks.

There’s different things in each of them. The thing that I’m most excited about is when you don’t know what the next one’s going to be, and then when the narration for the little documentary section starts, and it starts talking about Rosa Parks, I can just see [viewers] going, “Oh no …” That’s a great “Curb” feeling. It’s a comedy horror film — “Oh no, don’t do that, oh no.” Then you get sucked in.

We tried really hard to make sure that production-wise, there’s historical accuracy, so it really felt like you were in this moment. Then Larry gets dropped in, and all hell breaks loose. Same thing with World War I — I got to shoot a whole bunch of World War I fighting — and there’s Larry pretending to be dead. One of the things that attracted us to it in the very beginning was the idea of the juxtaposition between these big dramatic moments and then Larry. History is writ large, and Larry writes so small and that dynamic is fun for us.

One of the great things about a show like this — or what’s come before, like “Drunk History” — are the lessons that can be learned. Is there something you learned while filming this series or a takeaway you had in looking back at our history?

There are things I did not know. One of the things that was also enjoyable is being able to talk about modern things in a historical context, even with that phone. We don’t write dialog — we write some, but it’s basically like doing “Curb.” Larry knew that people were going to ask some questions about the phone, but I just was peppering these people with questions about all of the modern stuff, and just watching Larry get angrier and angrier at these people. At a certain point, the membrane of actor, of character to real human being was breached. He was so mad at them, but that’s what making the show is. Actually, at the end of the our shoot, President Obama said to me, “I see how it works. Larry makes the world uncomfortable, and you make sure the world makes Larry uncomfortable.” That’s literally how we make the show.

Would this format work for current historical events? How do you think, 250 years from now, a reboot of this show would tackle something like telling the story of the UFC fight on the White House lawn?

That’s the problem — we’ve entered an era of America parodying itself. It’s insane. One of my good friends, Dave Mandel, used to do a “Veep” and he’s like, “What do you do now?” I think what we tried to do, and you’ll see as you go further into episodes, we try to address a lot of things that are happening right now through a historical lens. So we might be back in colonial times, and we might be back in the ‘50s, but we’re actually talking about something that’s happening right now.

Before I let you go, what is the TV show or movie out right now that you’re telling everyone to watch?

I just started watching “Steve and Alice” [Hulu, Disney+]. It’s so well done; it’s so dark and funny and really engaging.

What’s the comfort show or movie you return to again and again?

I can pretty much put on any “Lord of the Rings” [HBO Max] movie anywhere and not be able to get my butt off the seat.

ICYMI

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Should I stay or should I go?

It’s at once a practical and existential question that plagues the two lead chefs in FX’s “The Bear.” He was the emotionally tortured and volatile chef who left behind a rising career in Michelin-starred restaurants to return to Chicago, his hometown, to run his recently deceased brother’s floundering sandwich joint. She was a Culinary Institute of America-trained chef with potential and a steady demeanor seeking mentorship and an opportunity to work with a prodigy. Together, Carmen “Carmy” Berzatto and Sydney “Syd” Adamu — played by Jeremy Allen White and Ayo Edebiri, respectively — transformed the Original Beef of Chicagoland from a hole-in-the-wall into the titular fine-dining establishment.

But now their partnership in the kitchen has come to an end.

Created by Christopher Storer, “The Bear’s” fifth and final season picks up the morning after Syd, Richie (Ebon Moss-Bachrach) and Nat (Abby Elliott) learn Carmy is quitting the food industry and leaving the restaurant in their hands at a make-or-break moment. And the pressure mounts for Syd to decide if she’ll jump ship to pursue another opportunity. The eight-episode season, now streaming in full on Hulu, largely stretches across one day as the restaurant’s debts accumulate, suppliers cut them off and an unrelenting storm floods the kitchen and threatens to upend a night of service the chefs desperately need to have one last shot at survival and one last performance as a team to deliver an improbable turnaround.

In some ways, it’s a journey that mirrors the actors’ own trajectories. Before “The Bear” became a runaway hit, White was best known for his role on Showtime’s long-running dark comedy “Shameless,” while Edebiri primarily worked as a stand-up comedian and writer. Just as their characters have evolved and gained electric momentum in their careers, so have the actors. Both garnered Emmy Awards for their performances on “The Bear,” and they have added a multitude of film and TV credits to their résumés since. Edebiri is currently starring opposite Don Cheadle in the revival of “Proof,” her Broadway debut, while White will be starring this fall as an investigative reporter in Aaron Sorkin’s “The Social Reckoning,” a companion piece to “The Social Network” that chronicles Facebook’s whistleblower scandal.

Over separate video calls from New York, Edebiri and White reflected on “The Bear’s” conclusion and what it means to leave the characters that supercharged their careers behind. Here are edited excerpts from the conversations.

Ayo Edebiri as Sydney Adamu and Jeremy Allen White as Carmen “Carmy” Berzatto in a scene from Season 5 of “The Bear.”

(FX)

After living inside these characters’ skins for so many years, what’s it like to be done playing them?

Edebiri: They keep saying that we’re done, so I guess that really is the thing of it. Obviously I know that it’s over, but even when we were finishing our first seasons, it didn’t matter how much critical acclaim we got because we’re on a show that’s a part of a network that has a deal with the streaming service — there’s all these things that are continually in flux or that you know that you have no control over. As an actor, you’re used to this state of limbo or not totally knowing or being prepared for an ending, so I think I’m not overwhelmed by it, if that makes sense.

White: I don’t know yet. We were very lucky to understand for a long time when the show was going to end and, to a degree, how the show was going to end. It was difficult to see the direction it went — I have strong feelings about Carmy and where he ends up and how his story might continue on. So much of this season, for Carmy, is about a surrender or acceptance of his place in the world and his place in the kitchen, and it’s the first time he’s really been able to get very honest with himself since we’ve met him. And, in doing so, he chooses to leave, and that was hard for me, for Jeremy. Maybe there’s a world in which he tries this and he comes back. I think I had a different understanding for a while of Carmy’s future. I want him to be happy and healed, but it felt like … I don’t know — imagining him outside of a kitchen was hard for me.

I want to unpack that a little bit more. He wants to be happy. But it was interesting to see him wrestle with how his work hinders that — is it the crutch or the salvation? Did you find yourself having an existential moment as Jeremy taking in what Carmy was wrestling with, or have you reckoned with it before?

White: He threw himself into this work, into this world, pretty young in life. And he was really good at it. But a big part of him burying himself has so much to do with his brother, with his family. I was finishing something too. And, yes, of course, I was thinking of goodbyes, and I was thinking of moving on, and new pursuits and all of these things. I was checking in with myself and what it might feel like to just make such a hard turn in life. I thought a lot about what you get back from your work, but I think ultimately, what Carmy and I don’t share is he was causing so much chaos in his work life; it wasn’t just himself that he was punishing at times. It came down to this surrender to an easier way, a softer way, which was to turn it over to Syd, to turn it over to Richie, to turn it over to Tina in the kitchen — that part, I had an easier time understanding.

“The most beautiful thing about their relationship is their true unconditional belief in one another,” says Allen about Sydney and Carmy in “The Bear.”

(David Urbanke / For The Times)

Syd was facing a crossroads: a shiny new job that could take her to the next level or sticking with this seemingly sinking ship that has taken her to the next level, but where she’s felt unappreciated or stifled at times. Ayo, what did you think of the choice she made?

Edebiri: We’re really fortunate to have such amazing writers who thought about her and her journey. [There’s] an awareness of Sydney’s womanhood and Blackness and youth, but I think [they treated] her with the full dignity of just being a human being and getting able to be a complex character in this show and giving her the dignity of being just as flawed as the other characters. [The choice she made] just made sense to me. It made sense in the architecture of the show. It was gratifying to get to build to that with everybody.

The bulk of this final season has the team dealing with this massive storm that’s created a slew of setbacks at a make–or–break moment for the restaurant. It leads to one final symphony in the kitchen together.

White: Those days were beautiful. So much of our show is shot so quickly, but then we really get to slow down with these choreographed pieces of kitchen ballet, and that’s also when we feel really strong as a group of performers, where we’re incredibly reliant on one another, not just for the emotional beats of a scene, but in this very technical aspect as well. I remember going back to Season 1 and filming Episode 7, “The Review,” which was the single-take episode, and just how much camaraderie came from that, and how much respect came from that for everyone — that feeling of real success that we could do this. It’s a really nice thing that happens sometimes on sets, where there is such a nice mirror of what’s going on with the characters and what’s going on with the cast. In this last push, and this team effort, we want these things as the characters, and we want these things as the cast. We want these people to have what they want, what they deserve, so it was really exciting shooting that last episode or two where all those things are coming into place.

Edebiri: That’s Chris’ thing — it’s like a classical piece of music or something; there’s different movements. His own challenge that he puts on himself, and that, in turn, puts on us, is that we’re still in the same piece of music, but everything just has a different feeling. He’d been talking about it since, low-key, Season 3, but definitely started talking about it a little bit more concertedly when we were filming [Season] 4. It was really starting to take shape in his brain. This challenge of having it be in this one day, and how each episode can feel different, was really exciting to him, so in turn, it became exciting to us.

Were you hoping for more runway to chart what the characters were facing?

Edebiri: No, I think it was cool. I was just like, “Yeah, let’s see what it is.” That’s kind of what everything has been with this show. Part of her emotional journey for the last season, what was on a slower track, in a way, there was something also really fun in having the pressure cooker of one day, and everything getting to ramp up and be quite immediate, which I think has been reminiscent of Seasons 1 and 2 in a fun way.

Tina (Liza Colón-Zayas), left, Sydney (Ayo Edebiri), Richie (Ebon Moss-Bachrach) and Carmy (Jeremy Allen White) in “The Bear.” The restaurant faces multiple setbacks, including a storm that causes damage and dwindling supplies.

(FX)

Carmy and Sydney’s dynamic has been so fundamental to the series. These are two people who see something in each other that the other doesn’t. What do you admire about their relationship as friends and as co–workers?

White: The most beautiful thing about their relationship is their true unconditional belief in one another. They see the beautiful things in one another that the other one is not able to witness in themselves. Even though trust has been tested and trust has been broken at times, there is such a loyalty to the best in themselves. They know that they can rely on one another. In a lot of ways, they saved each other. That piece in the opening episode of Season 3, where Carmy gets the call about Mikey and serves the scallop to Syd without ever having met her — there is this invisible tether that was not witnessed by either of them, but it inspired Syd, and whether Carmy knew it or not, this thing was loved and enjoyed by someone that was birthed from this very traumatic moment. There’s just this beautiful, invisible tether that has always existed and will always exist between the two of them.

Edebiri: What I admire about it is the fact that they are able to bring out — through a lot of miscommunication and hard work, but ultimately, I think, with good intentions — the best in each other. They want to see each other be the best versions of themselves.

How is that reflected in your dynamic? Jeremy, who is Ayo as a scene partner and what has she brought out in you as a performer, and vice versa?

White: I was really so lucky to kind of witness Ayo in real time — everybody else had to wait some months to see her on the show. I remember genuinely being struck by her presence, her groundedness. It felt like, if this makes sense, wrong because she was doing it so well. She’s incredibly smart, she’s a wonderful writer, and she’s very skilled improvisationally, and so, in acting with her, there’s something that always makes you feel very in the moment. You can never like relax, in the best way. It’s like you always have to surrender yourself to each moment.

Edebiri: When we first started, I was coming from the comedy world, and he was coming from a much more dramatic world. Our approaches were so different. He has such amazing presence of being and a quiet focus and has such care for the work. He’s a really great leader. There are ideas in society of men in power, and what power held by men has to look like and feel like, and he’s very gentle — especially in the show, which can live so much in the space of chaos and anxiety, having a gentle spirit really helps with filming. He’s so good at making that very clear and helping teach me that as well … I’ve definitely learned from him, without realizing it, ways to protect yourself and protect your peace, and protect also the peace of your co-workers — you get the work done, you be serious about it, but it doesn’t have to be torture.

Edebiri on working with White: “When we first started, I was coming from the comedy world, and he was coming from a much more dramatic world. Our approaches were so different. He has such amazing presence of being and a quiet focus and has such care for the work.” (David Urbanke / For The Times)

What was it like to see them get this thing they’ve been after — not one, but two Michelin stars?

White: Reading that moment —there’s been so much pain and heartache … for years and years and years, and I was just so relieved to see this joyous moment on the page. It felt so, so close to the surface of me already. And we — Jeremy and Ayo — have shared so many insane, joyous moments in our lives since the show. So it felt familiar in the best way. I’m so glad for that moment for both of them — for Carmy and Syd.

Edebiri: We’re shooting it so fast. You always wish you just had more time, and that was one of the last scenes — I think it was the last thing that he and I shot. There’s obviously a bit of a preciousness and emotionality that you’re feeling in that moment, while also tapping into what’s happening to the characters. It’s this thing that, in the brain of myself, we’ve been building to this over five seasons. There’s obviously a somewhat meta reflection of what we’ve gone through — this is just such a crazy journey. But I think at the end of it, especially because of what we know is going to change in their relationship, that in their working proximity, that they are not going to be close, but they know that they were able to do this thing and build this thing together, I think [is] what felt very special, and felt very cool. I hope it’s something that people who have loved the show also feel.

Fans have intense feelings about their relationship, as I’m sure you know. Has it surprised you how strongly people feel about their dynamic?

White: I know that exists. I don’t have too much knowledge on how that all works. It’s funny, I’m very aware of it now because it’s become part of a conversation around the show, but it was nonexistent in our approach to the work. It wasn’t even a thought for either of us. It didn’t occur to us. But I understand it. There is an intimacy, of course, with these two characters. And there is this trust. They lean on each other and they admire each other so much. I’m not like — nobody’s crazy to feel that. There is love there, it’s just not a romantic partnership.

Edebiri: It surprised me the first two [seasons] because I don’t think that that’s what we were doing. Anytime that you say otherwise, I’ve learned [not to]. It’s been hard when doing press, it feels like we get asked specific questions to try to give a specific answer, but the point of art is we make it and we give it. If people are having a response, that’s great, and if I don’t agree with you, I don’t think I’m shutting it down or anything. We made something, then you’re picking something up — that’s the exchange.

White says he knows fans have intense feelings about the relationship between Carmy and Syd. “It’s funny, I’m very aware of it now because it’s become part of a conversation around the show, but it was nonexistent in our approach to the work. It wasn’t even a thought for either of us.” (David Urbanke / For The Times)

Carmy has a few heartfelt conversations this season, but one that really stands out is the one with his mom, played by Jamie Lee Curtis, while revisiting the family home he’s stayed away from for years. He cooks for her. She’s remorseful. Jeremy, what did you think of that moment for Carmy?

White: There’s resistance in it. People like Carmy, you can give them the answer, you can give them the sorry, you can give them the opportunity, and a lot of the times they don’t know what to do with it, or they push it away, or they push it down. What that scene was about, for Carm, was becoming available to even listen. That was the conflict of the scene and the moment. But he was able to eventually get to that acceptance to release some of the resentment, to release some of the anger. Then he is able to show up for her, which was what has been absent. He was able to take it and give her something. It’s been years, if ever, that he’s really been able to do that, to get out of his own way, and be of service in that way to his mother.

Ayo, it was really touching to see Syd naming Tina her chef de cuisine. How did you feel about what that sets up for where Syd and the Bear might be headed with these women as partners in the kitchen?

Edebiri: I loved it. I love getting to work with Liza [Colón-Zayas]. I’ve been so privileged to also be able to direct her — she’s just phenomenal. I think about these two characters, where they started Day 1; Tina was pretending not even to speak English just to stay away from the girl. It was rough from the get-go, but I think both for Liza and I, as two women of color as well, we felt so invested in their relationship and the community they built with each other. There’s something very moving about that to me. Part of the thing for Sydney, she doesn’t know — I think Carmy can see it — that one of her strengths is that they’re different types of leaders. Part of what I think makes Sydney a great leader is that she’s able to delegate and actually remove herself when she knows that she might not be the best in a situation, it might be somebody else.

I haven’t actually seen it. I can’t watch the episodes, but I know when we were filming it, it was both very sweet and very funny. I don’t know if they kept any of the improv from Liza.

You can’t watch because you’re emotional about it or because you just don’t have access?

Edebiri: No, I don’t want to. We were doing all this press and everybody was, “You were so emotional; you wanted to cry, right?” And I’m like, “No, I just don’t want to watch.” I’ll watch it later. The only season that I watched before [it aired], frankly, was 3 and 4 because I had episodes that I made in it. I love the show and I know the show is good. I don’t enjoy watching myself.

I do love that Syd’s ethos in the kitchen is borrowed from “Ratatouille.”

Edebiri: Yes, f—ing rat. It tracks for Sydney.

“I love getting to work with Liza [Colón-Zayas],” says Edebiri about her co-star, whose character is named chef de cuisine. “I’ve been so privileged to also be able to direct her — she’s just phenomenal.”

(FX)

Jeremy, what was your reaction when you read Carmy is in a suit interviewing for an internship at an architectural firm? And what he expresses there?

White: I understand and I’m proud of the courage that it takes [to do a life pivot], but also I tried to play that scene in a way where I didn’t want it to be entirely clear [what happens next]. I wanted the question to be like, “Is this guy still so f— up in the head that he’s trapped regardless of his place in this world, or place of work? Is it a romance that he’s saying goodbye to? Is it a love that he still has, and he’s not quite over yet?” Then I was like, “Do we snap out of that scene and we’re back on the clock?” What is this? I think the goal of the scene is it shouldn’t be all too clear and wrapped up.

What do you think?

White: I could see there’s obviously so much love. There’s love for the people he works with, and there’s love for the paces he’s gone through, but I didn’t know. … I didn’t know if it was a goodbye or an admittance. I think I was trying to find something between him coming clean and being like, you know what, I don’t belong anywhere else or I’m so in love with this thing, but it’s not good for me, and I think it exists somewhere in between that.

Ayo, what was your reaction to Carmy interviewing at the firm?

Edebiri: I was like, “Yeah, that makes sense. This boy’s a noodle.” He’s a fool, he’s ridiculous. It makes sense.

Where do you think he goes from here? Have you thought about it? Do you think he will ever find his way back to the kitchen?

White: I haven’t thought about it too much. I do think there’s something really honest about that direction that Carmy was moving into, but I would hope there’ll always be room for him somewhere in a kitchen.

Edebiri: Syd is like, “You can’t do anything else, brother. Like, what’s the plan?” I don’t know if he takes a break, if he comes back to help her, if he does his own thing.

What do you think happens to the Bear?

Edebiri: I think they do well. It’s not just her; it’s her and Sugar and Richie and Marcus and Tina. She got in it for Carmy, but I think she ended up finding her own voice. I think they keep going, at least for a few more years. I really do.

White: I have to believe that all the pain and suffering and trauma — not only that Carmy has gone through, but that everybody has gone through — is for some greater good. That there is a payoff. My hope is that it would be successful. They’ll have the endurance and the motivation to make it.

Author Harlan Coben, known for gripping thrillers that place ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances, has provided enough source material for book-to-screen adaptations on Netflix that it merits its own landing page. The latest screen translation of his work begins with a parent’s worst nightmare.

“I Will Find You” follows an imprisoned father wrongfully convicted of brutally murdering his son. When he learns his child may still be alive, it sets off a harrowing, twist-filled search for the truth. User discretion is advised as to whether that makes it the perfect binge for the Father’s Day weekend. “I Will Find You” is also the first series in Coben’s partnership with the streamer to take place in the U.S. — other projects have been set in countries across Europe, including the U.K., France and Spain, in four different languages. Coben and showrunner Robert Hull stopped by Guest Spot to discuss the eight-episode series.

Also in this week’s Screen Gab, our streaming recommendations include a series of brief historical videos that honor the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence and a Netflix documentary that revisits Michael Jackson’s 2005 child molestation trial.

And if you’re a fan of “House of the Dragon,” which returns Sunday with its third season, check out coverage from Tracy Brown, our resident expert on all matters related to Targaryen family drama. She assembled a guide to refresh your memory on the events of the second season and spoke with Emma D’Arcy ahead of the new season.

Keep on reading (and watching). See you next week.

—Yvonne Villarreal

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Recommendations from the film and TV experts at The Times

“250 to 250”/@twofiftytotwofifty (YouTube)

In the spirit of the old CBS “Bicentennial Minutes” (the spirit of the old CBS for that matter) — which ran in commercial breaks from July 4, 1974, until Dec. 31, 1976, and featured celebrities telling a story from “200 years ago today” — historian and podcaster Heather Cox Richardson has mounted a series of similarly timed semiquincentennial videos, as “250 to 250.” Narrated by an array of scholars, politicians, activists, public servants and others, its overarching theme is that “the story of America has been one of the constant efforts of Americans — from all races, ethnicities, genders, and abilities — to make real the belief that we are all created equal and have a right to have a say in our democracy.” (It can’t be said too often.) Segments (there are 25 as of this writing) include the Constitutional Convention, the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, the Erie Canal, the AIDS Memorial Quilt, Man o’ War, Eisenhower’s “D-day: In Case of Failure” statement, Rita Moreno, the Everglades, the Social Security Act, Fannie Lou Hamer, An Wang (the inventor of magnetic core memory), Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense” and L.A. Times reporter Rubén Salazar, killed by a sheriff’s rubber bullet during the 1970 National Chicano Moratorium March Against the Vietnam War. — Robert Lloyd

A still from “Michael Jackson: The Verdict” of Mark Geragos, who briefly served as the singer’s defense attorney.

(Netflix)

“Michael Jackson: The Verdict” (Netflix)

Moviegoers embraced “Michael,” propelling Antoine Fuqua’s film about the global superstar to become the highest-grossing music biography in movie history. But reviewers and others have continued to criticize the absence of references to the child molestation allegations that continually shadowed the singer. Netflix’s documentary “Michael Jackson: The Verdict,” however, brought it into focus. Directed by Nick Green, it chronicles the 2005 child molestation trial that threatened to derail Jackson’s career after a young boy accused him of abuse. The three-part series uses archival footage and new interviews with attorneys involved in the case, journalists, fans and members of Jackson’s inner circle to explore the trial, which sparked international attention, and its aftermath. Although the project is unlikely to affect Jackson’s popularity much, some of the revelations uncovered during the investigation are disturbing. — Greg Braxton

Guest spot

A weekly chat with actors, writers, directors and more about what they’re working on — and what they’re watching

Sam Worthington as David Burroughs, a wrongfully imprisoned father, in “I Will Find You.”

(Christos Kalohoridis/Netflix)

What would you do to save your child? “I Will Find You” follows David Burroughs (Sam Worthington), a father serving a life sentence for the gruesome killing his toddler son. But when his ex-sister-in-law Rachel Mills (Britt Lower), an out-of-work reporter, presents him with evidence that suggests his young son, Matthew, is still alive, it sets in motion a daring prison escape and a high-stakes rescue mission in search of the truth. And that’s just one of the parent-child dynamics that fuel the series to illustrate, as Coben told us, how most parents are “trying to do what we think is best for our child — and that could lead to greatness or it could lead to disaster.” Over a recent video call, Coben and showrunner Robert Hull discussed the chilling premise and the book moment that was most challenging to bring to screen. Beware of spoilers ahead. — Y.V.

Harlan, Netflix wanted to make this before you even finished the book. How did that shape or intensify your normal writing process? Is it hard to turn off the noise of the pressure that carries?

Coben: Actually, no. In terms of writing the novel, I’ve learned that the worst novels are the ones that you write thinking you’re going to make a great TV series or a movie. If you write a novel going, “Ooh, I can’t wait for it [to be adapted],” it’s going to stink — trust me. My caveat to that is, though, I don’t care about making changes. I don’t have fidelity to the novel. Once I knew it was going to be already a TV series, I made sure I cut off any thoughts of that, and just told Robby, “Your job is going to be to worry about how to adapt whatever I do.” The way it started was Robby and I had met, and we wanted to do something together at Netflix. We wanted to maybe do the first one that was going to be filmed [and take place in the U.S.], and weren’t sure which to do. I pitched the idea to Robby as I started writing the book, and Robby’s eyes lit up. We went to Netflix and [executives] were like which book is this? I’m “Well, it’s not a book yet; it’s a third of a book right now. I’ll finish it while Robby’s working on the pilot and the adaptation.

Robby, what pulled you into this story?

Hull: As a father myself, I would easily give my life to save my children. What would be terrifying is to not have that opportunity. And Harlan created this character [in that situation] — he says very early on in the book, “A father’s job is to protect my son, and I didn’t do that.” He’s [David] living in this spiritual prison, regardless. And in this day and age, to have someone come and say, “Hey, there might be a way for you to correct the past, to change the most horrible thing that’s ever happened to you” — I thought that was just an incredible way to start a story.

Britt Lower as Rachel Mills and Sam Worthington as David Burroughs in “I Will Find You.”

(Netflix)

Was there a moment from the book, or a twist, that was most challenging to bring to screen, or one that you were most excited about?

Hull: It’s actually the same moment: When Rachel comes [to the prison] and shows David the photograph very early on. That is a scene that has to establish who Rachel is, establish her back story, her pathos, her connection to David, introduce the mystery, David’s reaction to the mystery. There is so much going on. You have to check off in three pages and in the hands of possibly actors other than Sam and Britt, that could be a real train wreck of a scene. Sam’s reaction when he first sees that photo is just unmistakably incredible, and you don’t have to write it. He tells you in three or four seconds the last five years of what he’s been through, and the possibility that maybe things can be different just by staring at a photo, which is incredible.

Coben: That’s one of my favorite scenes too. Also the ending, making sure that landed and gave the emotional punch that I wanted and I felt when I was writing the book. I think we delivered it less-was-more there. It closes it and it leaves it, so you can interpret it your own way, and you can bring it. We were thinking, it’d be really interesting to ask people a year from now, “Where do you think those characters are?”

Let’s talk about that part of the ending — so spoiler warning starts here. The book goes more deeply into how Rachel and David’s relationship evolves into a romance by the end. The series is more vague — we see them hold hands. Robby, how did you want that moment to play?

Hull: If you want them to be together and you’re hoping they are, then I’ve done my job right. I actually don’t want to answer that question because the relationship is so complex and so dynamic. Early on, we didn’t want the traditional two-hander, where [it’s] “Oh, now they’re going to fall in love, now they’re going to come together.” No, Rachel’s her own character with her own story and pathos, and at the end, what they’ve been through together, if that moment is the promise of something more, great; if it’s the promise of “look what we’ve been through,” that’s OK too. That’s what I was going for, at least.

Do you think there’s more of David’s story to tell? Would you want a Season 2 to explore what happens next?

Coblen: I’m probably the only writer who will say this: No, not really. I don’t do Season 2’s unless I think they’ll be better than Season 1’s. Let me do new stories instead. This is a complete story to me. Now, if somebody says to me, “I’ve come up with an idea that might work, that could be as compelling as being [in prison] for five years for the murder of your child for the same character? I never say never. I’ve learned that in my career. But we’ll see. I don’t think so.

Robby’s like, “but I want a Season 2.”

Hull: The moment he said, “If you can come up with a story better than the one we told …,” I was like, “Oh, guess we’re not doing a Season 2.”

Before I let you go, what have you watched recently that you’re recommending to everyone?

Coben: “Your Friends & Neighbors” [Apple TV] by my pal Jonathan Tropper and my other pal Jon Hamm. I’m proud of the job they’ve done on that show and I’m happy for them.

Hull: “Run Away,” ’Safe,” “Fool Me Once.” [Each are a Coben adaptation for Netflix]. Those are the three I’m digging right now.

ICYMI

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In this week’s episode of The Envelope podcast, Rachel Sennott discusses finding the voice of “I Love L.A.” — and finding her footing as series creator — during a tumultuous time in her life.

Kelvin Washington: Welcome to The Envelope, Kelvin Washington alongside you know who, Yvonne Villarreal, Mark Olsen. Always great to have you two here and spend some time with you. We talked about it earlier, we had Emmy season — a few weeks ago we discussed it. But now Emmy nominations are on the way. Yvonne, I’ll start with you, just maybe someone, a show, a couple of things you’re looking at saying, “Hey, I would love to see this or that person nominated.”

Yvonne Villarreal: I wanna give some shout-outs to the women right now. I was really frustrated when Rhea Seehorn didn’t get love until the final season of “Better Call Saul,” and I’m hoping — and I do have a lot of hope — that she will be recognized for “Pluribus.” [I] was a really big fan of “The Comeback” this season. I would like to [see] Lisa Kudrow get in there. Show-wise, I would like to see “The Testaments” in there. I don’t know how much of a dark horse that one is, but that’s my pick for show.

Washington: You’ve been riding “The Testaments.” What about you, Mark?

Olsen: I’m sort of leapfrogging over nominations, and I’m just thinking about what would be exciting on the show. And last year, I remember Stephen Colbert won for talk show kind of right after his show had been canceled, and that seemed like a very exciting moment. And so this year, with Jimmy Kimmel, where this is the first Emmy cycle since he had his suspension last year, and really has been in the news, I just think if he were to be nominated and then to win, that just would be such an exciting moment at the show. What’s he gonna say? I just would really love to see that.

Washington: Yeah, he seems like he would have some things to say, right? Because just kind of the nature of who he is. We’ll have to wait and see. And just for me, a couple of people. Just a fan of this particular person, Janelle James is hilarious to me. She plays in “Abbott Elementary.” She plays that role great. And then this one is no real surprise, probably 50-plus-year career, but Martin Short. Every time I see him, he’s amazing, steals the scene. So those are folks that just jump off on the radar for me.

All right, I’ll get to you, Mark. You had a chance to sit down with Rachel Sennott of “I Love L.A.,” creator and star of it. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Olsen: She’s been kind of a real, like, bright light on the comedy scene for the last few years in films like “Shiva Baby,” “Bodies Bodies Bodies” and “Bottoms,” and, you know, she also was like a writer as well as a performer. And so with “I Love L.A.,” which is a look at sort of like the young creative class in Los Angeles, she is the star of the show, she created the show, she writes on the show, she’s executive producer, she actually made her directing debut with one of the episodes. And so it’s just exciting to see her sort of really like come into her voice and come into her own with this new show.

Washington: Kind of reminds me a little bit of, you know, now maybe a decade ago Issa Rae’s surge in L.A. and comedy creating, and then Riz Ahmed, who you spoke with last week — same thing creating and starring and stuff. Seems like that’s the energy [we’re] getting from a lot of the young talent. Well, here is Mark and Rachel now.

Rachel Sennott, creator and star of HBO’s “I Love L.A.”

(Evan Mulling / For The Times)

Mark Olsen: We’re here with Rachel Sennott, creator, executive producer, writer, star, and for the first time, director on the show “I Love L.A.,” as well as co-creator and writer on “Big Mistakes.” That’s a lot.

Rachel Sennott: When you say it like that, I’m like, “Oh, my God.” And I’m also a friend, daughter, let’s not forget girlfriend. Yeah, those are all things that I am doing. And I am so grateful and having so much fun doing that.

Olsen: Hopefully this isn’t something that just I get a kick out of, but we’re here at the L.A. Times offices in El Segundo, and the Randy Newman song “I Love L.A.,” one of the first lines in the song is “Rolling down the Imperial Highway.” And we are in fact on Imperial Highway.

Sennott: We’re here right now. We’re living it.

Olsen: Tell me about the title of the show, its relationship to the song and what was it that you liked about having the show called “I Love L.A.”

Sennott: We were between two titles for a while, “I Love L.A.” and “Climbers,” and the reason we went with “I Love L.A.” is because in the process of making the show, I moved here from New York and I had a hard time when I was first here. And in the process of filming the pilot, I really fell in love with L.A., and I think getting to make something here, I all of a sudden saw L.A. through this lens where everything was like a movie. I would go on my walks that I usually go on. I would walk through my neighborhood, I would go to my spots, and I just saw it through this different lens, and I was really falling in love with it in the process of making the show. And I think with “Climbers,” that title fell a little bit — it was a double meaning of like social climbers and then also, being the age that I am, where I feel like ever since I got to college, ever since I became an adult, there’s been this chaotic energy in the world and uncertain ground where things never felt expected. It was always unexpected events. Graduating into COVID and then there was a strike and everything. So I feel like Sisyphus, where you’re always pushing the rock up the hill and it’s never enough. But we were worried that “Climbers” would seem too negative … We didn’t want to set people up already judging the characters.

Olsen: And then what has it been like for you learning to be a showrunner in making “I Love L.A.”? It’s funny, your co-showrunner Emma Barrie, she mentioned how you were very organized, but she was struck that you had everything in a pink binder with horses on it. So it was you trying to learn this new thing while also holding on to your essence.

Sennott: I feel so grateful for everyone who works on the show with me. I learned a lot from Emma. I learned from Lorene [Scafaria], who inspired me so much as a director. Aida [Rodgers], our producer, Amy [Gravitt] and Allie [Wasserman] at HBO; Max [Silvestri], who’s one of our EPs and writers. Showrunning is a million different jobs, and some of the jobs I’d done before, some of them I hadn’t, and I felt like I got to see different people shine in certain things, people who are more talented or more skilled at structure than me, people who have directed before, people who understand shots and basically learn from everyone and see that everyone wants the show to be the best it can be. They’re bringing stuff to the table. And so I benefited from everyone else’s skills and talents and just being like, “If you know how to do this better than me, I’m gonna learn from you and watch you and hopefully take from that so I can do my job better.”

Olsen: In a lot of the press as you’ve been talking about the show, you’ve been talking a lot about the concept of the Saturn return and this sort of chaotic period people have in their late 20s. You yourself now are 30 —

Sennott: Yes, I made it. I literally just finished. I was relieved, but my Saturn return was the process, getting the show picked up and the first season of the show. That was my Saturn return.

Olsen: Can you already feel that something has settled or things are different somehow?

Sennott: Yes, a thousand percent. My Saturn return, the dates that it was the strongest were the month around when the show got picked up. Making the pilot was so amazing and I learned so much. And then I was in this moment where I had to pick — basically, I couldn’t take on acting jobs because I was gonna hopefully do the show, but I didn’t know if the show was picked up yet or not. And so I had to say no to certain things and kind of take this leap. At the same time I went through a breakup, and then I got arrested for having CBD in the Cayman Islands. And it was just a very chaotic month of my life where I was like in jail for six hours on a break with my boyfriend, so he, like, had no idea where I was, and I was like, I don’t even know if I have a show, I just said no to this other thing. I just felt like I didn’t know what was happening. I’m someone who it’s hard for me to take risks sometimes, and that was a big risk and leap into what I thought I should be doing. And then the rest of it was learning for the first season how to do a job I’d never done before. Obviously, I still have more to learn, but I think that was a big Saturn return for me, the roller coaster of it.

Olsen: It’s so interesting to hear you say that you think of yourself as a person who’s afraid of risk, because that’s not my impression of you.

Sennott: You’re like, “Stop taking risks. Chill on the risks, every second.” No, I think it’s more [that] I didn’t necessarily believe in myself as a creator on my own, and that was really scary for me. That was the risk, I think.

Olsen: Because especially in building up to making “I Love L.A.,” in your career, I feel like you’ve created this comedic persona for yourself. What is the biggest distinction between the Rachel I think I know and like the actual you?

Sennott: You mean the characters that I play? Or like the persona?

Olsen: These sort of hard-charging, very ambitious, but maybe not always understanding of themselves characters, and you. I’m just interested in how you see the distinction between that persona and the actual you.

Sennott: Well, I hope that the characters that I’ve played have been somewhat different from each other. I think “Shiva Baby,” that character, was a little bit more anxiety-inward. Alice in “Bodies” was way more outward and kind of no filter, said every inside thought. Maia on “I Love L.A.,” I think, is kind of bitter in the beginning of the first season and is pinning her failures, blaming them, on her friend. All of those characters, I always draw on some element of myself. I think all actors, you have to find some connection to the character. But I think I’m hopefully more grounded and balanced and mature than the character. I hope.

Olsen: You’ve talked about how “I Love L.A.” really explores the foibles and challenges that people have leading these very, like, online lives and the way that people nowadays are really sort of tethered to their phones all the time. Is that something that you feel like you grapple with yourself? Is it something you yourself have had to kind of get over?

Sennott: I would say I started my career on the internet, and I grew up on the internet, and basically, I created a different sort of persona on the internet that was based in truth of a time when I was in my early 20s in New York, and it was a lot more messy and a little chaotic, and I was just going through things in my life at that time [that inspired] — I say “writing,” but like the tweets, the jokes, the videos, whatever, that were coming out of me. And then I felt I changed, but I still wanted to kind of project that character. And so I actually ended up putting that character into Tallulah [played by Odessa A’zion]. And I think Maia was a little bit more the version of myself when I first moved to L.A. and I felt isolated and it was during COVID, and I felt I was kind of gripping onto my friends in a codependent way. And so I think the show is sort of dealing with, whether or not you’re an influencer or person online, anyone who’s grown up on the internet is projecting some sort of version of themselves. So I think it was that I was trying to explore.

Olsen: You mentioned that the character of Tallulah is this version of you that you used to be. So what was it like for you creating this character that was almost like your id unleashed?

Sennott: It felt like I was separating myself from her. At first, [it] maybe could have felt like a caricature. And then when we cast Odessa, who is so talented and just, as an actor, she has such depth and range, and I think she asked questions and brought so much to it. Then it actually made me sever myself from the character, and the character became its own thing that she brought to life.

Olsen: Your character, Maia, in some ways is the audience surrogate, she’s kind of the most “normal” character on the show. And considering that in “Bottoms” or “Bodies Bodies Bodies” you often were the outrageous character, what has it been like for you to play this character that’s a little more self-contained?

Sennott: It’s been fun. I think we sort of found her during the first season. I feel that Episodes 6 through 8 are really where the show finds its footing and where we find what’s the comedy of Maia. It takes a little for her to kind of crack open, what’s funny about her as a character, but also I think Tallulah is almost like an agent of change for her — Maia was set in her ways and sort of struggling and depressed, and I think Tallulah puts her on track, and she’s going through her Saturn return and all that stuff. And so I think we get to see at the end of the season and just having been writing Season 2, I think that we get see her do a lot more fun stuff.

Olsen: It’s funny, as viewers, a lot of times people say, “Oh, you know, there’s this show you should watch, it really gets going on like Episode 3” or whatever. And I don’t think I’ve ever heard a creator say before, like, “Oh, 6, 7, and 8, we figured it out.” Do you feel you knew that in the moment, or has that only come to you as you’ve been working on Season 2?

Sennott: I think as we were editing the first season. Tone is something that you can say, like, “We want it to be like, this needs this, and it’s that and that and the tone of that.” But tone is what you find in the edit. I think you shoot different versions of a line, of a scene, and then you piece it together. And I think for me, that’s when I felt like, “This is the tone of the show. This is the world of the show.” And in writing Season 2 as well, just living more in that world.

Olsen: You kind of touched on this, but the characters on the show, they kind of skirt this line between being endearing and annoying. What is it that you like about that?

Sennott: Because I think that’s how people are. I am not interested in seeing perfect people or people who are flawed in a way that’s not actually real. So I love all the characters. I think Alani [played by True Whitaker], for example, is someone where you could really easily be like, “Oh, a nepo baby, she’s so privileged, whatever.” I think she’s the character with the biggest heart. She’s the best friend out of the whole group. She cares for everyone. She’s so deeply sensitive. And she’s actually been through a lot of s— and she drops these little things, these clues where you’re like, “Gee, she went through something crazy but is choosing to look at life half-full,” and I think that’s fun. I like the characters who make you feel or expect something of them and then show you another side. Charlie [played by Jordan Firstman] I think does that as well, where you meet him and you think he’s a little acerbic, he’s a little judgmental, and then he goes through loss and grief when Lukas, spoilers, Lukas Landry dies, RIP Lukas. That’s really hard for him. I’ve been friends with Jordan for so long, and I love him so much. I think he’s so talented. But I think he showed a totally new side of himself with the character.

Olsen: I agree. I found those scenes very touching. There’s an emotion there that’s kind of unexpected. Another moment that I really like in the show is Odessa’s character, she wants to change a dinner reservation to five people at 8 o’clock. And then you have to spend hours trying to make that happen. And I really appreciated how it’s something that sounds like it should be simple, and for some people it’s no big deal. But then for other people, it’s the biggest hurdle imaginable. Did you like that the show explores this sort of proximity to ease? Sometimes you end up at this party in a big, big house, but it’s not your house. Was that something you wanted to explore about life in L.A.?

Sennott: Totally. There’s also something specific to L.A. and specific to the industry we’re exploring — which is the internet as opposed to Hollywood — that I would say is relatable to me, to anyone in their late 20s, early 30s. When you’re in your early 20s, everyone’s sort of grouped together or feels like they’re in the same bucket. It’s like, “Oh we’re all doing this same thing, we’re all roommates, we’re all in school together, we’re all whatever.” But people make decisions that you don’t even see. I feel like the first time I found out that one of my friends had a SEP IRA, I was like, “When did we all decide that we’re getting SEP IRAs?” And it was a friend who loves to party, and I was thrown. Now I’m panicking I didn’t do that. Or who’s getting in a serious relationship, whatever. People start making decisions in their late 20s, all of a sudden everyone’s off on different paths. It’s like, “Wait, you’re getting married, but you’re still partying the way that we did when we were in college.” This person is moving, this person is changing their career path. And so you all of a sudden feel a little bit betrayed or on your own, and it’s isolating, and that is something that, yes, we’re doing it through a specific lens of L.A. and this world and these characters, but I think it’s really relatable to people at that age.

Olsen: I’ve heard you describe yourself as a zillennial cusp.

Sennott: Yeah, I’m cusp, and I feel like I relate to a little bit of both.

Olsen: But do you feel a pressure for the show to feel like some sort of a generational statement, to capture these kind of big-picture things?

Sennott: No. Ayo [Edebiri] and I were texting each other because there’s always an article that’s like, “Turns out these b— are 30. Yeah. They’ve been lying the whole time. They said they’re Gen Z.” I’m like, “I didn’t say anything. I was born in ’95. I’m 30.” Call me what you want, but I was just writing to what I feel at the time. I think people who grew up on the internet in the way that I did will relate to it, but I think you can relate too if you’re older or you’re younger.

Olsen: As people are writing about the show, they very frequently are referencing “Girls,” “Insecure,” “Sex and the City.” But I’ve heard you reference “Entourage” quite a bit. Could you explain that?

Sennott: “Girls” and “Sex and the City” and “Insecure,” all of those shows, all HBO shows, are formative to me as an artist. I remember watching “Girls,” I was in high school and looking at colleges with my dad and we went and toured [New York University], and in the hotel room that night, he was like, “I heard so much about this new show, ‘Girls,’ we should watch it. And it was the episode with Patrick Wilson where they f— in his nice apartment the whole time, and we turned it on and my dad was like, “OK, you can watch this later on your own, this is for you.” And I remember going to bed being like, “I’ve gotta go to New York, like whoa, this is crazy.” I think naturally those were already gonna inspire me. “Entourage” and “Atlanta,” those were two references that I mentioned a lot when we were making the show. “Entourage” because I feel I got to come up in this industry with my friends, and when I’m with my friends I feel completely invincible, and so there was that aspect. It was like, “I wanna see ‘Entourage’ but from a different point of view and perspective and a slightly different industry.” And then “Atlanta,” there is already having a family relationship and friendship on top of managing. Like how [Earn] manages Paperboi. And then I think “Atlanta” did such a great job of capturing a city that has almost magical realism elements to it. And L.A., a lot of the time, there’s things that happen here that are crazy, that feel almost unreal, but they are real. So that was a big inspiration for the show as well. Like the opening of the show, sex during an earthquake. That’s happened to me, but it also feels a little ridiculous, but it happens in L.A.

Olsen: You mentioned earlier that in waiting for the show to come around, you felt you were having to turn things down or you were really having to sort of change your mindset in a way. Can you talk a little more about that? With the show “Big Mistakes” that you created with Dan Levy, is that one of the things that you had to step away from or readjust how you were gonna be involved because of the fact that you were going to have “I Love L.A.”?

Sennott: I was more talking about acting roles. When you step into a creator role, it’s a different mindset than acting jobs and you have to commit to a longer time period. When you’re just acting in things, you can pop in, pop out and you leave set and you’re like, “I love you guys so much. I’ll see you in a year at the premiere,” which is fabulous too — love doing that. But when you are creating something, you’re in it from beginning to end, and you really wanna give your all to it. So I think I was more talking about just, like, betting on myself as a creator, as opposed to just acting.

Olsen: And how has that felt now that you’re on the other side of it, with one season of “I Love L.A.” made? How do you feel about having made that decision, having bet on yourself like that?

Sennott: I think it’s changed me, in a way where I’m so happy I did it. And it’s sometimes harder and there’s more parts to it, but I feel more in myself creatively than I ever have before, I think.

Olsen: It changed you how?

Sennott: Just because you all of a sudden see all the different parts of the process of making something and all these different jobs that maybe I wasn’t as aware of before. And I think there’s also something beautiful about popping into something and acting and just being like, “I am present as my character. This is what I am thinking about. I’m thinking about what does the character want.” And that’s amazing too. But I feel so lucky to have been able to experience other parts of making something.

Olsen: What was it like learning how to switch hats, especially during production? I would imagine you have a producer brain, you have an actor brain, then for one episode you have a director brain.

Sennott: I had to like sort of take it day by day. There are days where it’s a lighter scene for me and I can be on the side approving locations, taking meetings during lunch. There was a day where I had two sex scenes, for Episodes 6 and 7. So we shot the end of 7, the fight scene with me and Josh [Hutcherson], and the sex scene where it’s Maia and Dylan but she’s fantasizing about Ben. It was a lot. And so I was like, to Emma and Max and Aida, “Let’s not do any other meetings today in the middle of the day,” and they were like, “Totally got you.” That day I was more focused. I really needed to be present in the scene and have this be my main focus. And then on a day where I’m shooting like, “you’re texting on your phone” and “you’re walking on your walking treadmill,” I can do other stuff. So I think it was just taking each day as it comes and having so much support from the rest of the team.

Olsen: It’s wild to think of just one day providing all this material for the show. Just a single day could be so pivotal.

Sennott: Yeah, totally. A lot can happen in a day and then other days you’re like, “I’m just opening doors.” You never know.

Olsen: How did you come to conceive of how you kind of wanted to depict the online world, how people text, whether they’re FaceTiming and things like that? The show obviously exists with that world, as part of it, but you didn’t spend a whole lot of time animating texts. How did you come to conceive of how to depict people’s online life?

Sennott: I wanted it to feel how it does in the real world, which is the internet is just a big part of everyone’s life, but people aren’t explaining it to each other all the time. So we wanted to have the internet feel like the real internet, but our own internet. We didn’t want to ever reference anything that would date us because the internet moves so fast. So, like, Coke Larry, for example, when Dylan gets made into a meme, whatever, that’s our own thing, but it moves the same way as the internet does. And we tried not to have too much phone screens, texting, whatever. Like for example you [just] see snippets of Tallulah making videos or posting or whatever. In “Entourage,” you don’t really see that much of Vince acting. You see all the stuff around it. So that was sort of our model for the show.

Olsen: You directed the final episode of the season. Do you expect to be directing more in Season 2?

Sennott: Yeah.

Olsen: And how did you find the experience? What did you like about it?

Sennott: I loved it. You’re just in every aspect of the process. You are thinking about everything, and it was so engaging and exciting, and afterwards I felt fried, and I like crawled onto the edit couch and I was like limp and it took a lot out of me. People describe it like giving birth. And then you’re like, “I gotta do it again.” So that’s kind of how I felt on the other end.

Olsen: Can you talk a little about that final episode? The show is called “I Love L.A.” You send the main characters to New York for the final episode, which has turned into kind of a controversial decision. A lot of people have talked about that. Can you talk just a little about deciding to end the season in New York?

Sennott: I think it was because it was sort of addressing the fact that these girls went to school in New York together. They lived in New York and they chose to move to L.A., and I think when you do that there’s always going to be the push and pull of the two cities, and going back to New York, it was almost like getting a chance to get back together with your ex and being like, “You know what, there’s a reason it didn’t work out.” And they end the episode with, “I miss L.A.” So I think that’s kind of what we were aiming to do.

Olsen: And then before we wrap up, I should be sure to ask, is there anything that you could tell us about Season 2? What can people look forward to?

Sennott: It’s sort of what we were talking about earlier, Episodes 6 through 8, I think, I just feel we’ve locked in to our tone, we get to see other sides of characters we haven’t before, we go deeper on certain characters. And I think there’s some fun stuff that we set up in the finale that we get to explore.

It’s Friday afternoon in North Hollywood and Ziggy Marley is perched on a stool inside his newly built Rebel Lion Studio, tucked in one of the neighborhood’s creative enclaves.

The nine-time Grammy winner is surrounded by a collection of lion figurines, guitars, traditional hand drums and a piano. Along the walls hang two replicas of backdrops his legendary father, Bob Marley, used on tour in the 1970s. The murals, depicting Rastafari icons and Haile Selassie I and Marcus Garvey, were featured in the 2024 biopic “Bob Marley: One Love.”

“These are what we used as the backdrop for the concert scenes. Them spiritual to me,” Marley says in patois as the smell of palo santo dances around the rehearsal space.

Music has been both an inheritance and lifelong pursuit for Marley. From sitting in studio sessions with his father as a child to building a five-decade career of his own, he has remained a curious student of the craft, one willing to challenge convention in search of a deeper meaning. That spirit is evident on “Brightside,” his ninth solo album, which was released on vinyl on April 18 (Record Store Day) and May 1 on streaming.

Rather than recording the eight-track project in 440 Hz, the standard tuning frequency for most modern music, he opted for 432 Hz, a tuning some musicians and theorists believe creates a warmer, more meditative listening experience. He also slowed down his songwriting process, giving each lyric room to carry its message of hope through turbulent times. The album, which may be his most personal yet, also features “Many Mourn for Bob,” the first song he has written directly about his late father.

“I think it shows the next stage that I probably am in,” says Marley, adding that he felt connected to his father on a spiritual level. “We took another step in the relationship, to another place that it’s never been before.”

Ziggy Marley is bringing his “Brightside” tour to the Hollywood Bowl on June 21 alongside reggae star Burning Spear.

(Dania Maxwell / For The Times)

He adds, “When I was doing the song, it kind of came to me like this song could’ve been my father’s song. It could’ve been a song that he wrote.”

The reflective nature of “Brightside” arrives at another pivotal time in Marley’s career. This year marks the 20th anniversary of “Love Is My Religion,” the Grammy-winning album that launched his solo career and crystallized a personal philosophy he still carries today. He is also set to release his sixth children’s book, “True to Myself,” in September.

As we wrap up our conversation, Marley has only a few minutes before Rebel Lion Studio shifts back into work mode. Within minutes, bandmates, background singers and production crew members begin funneling into the space, hauling in stacks of equipment as promotion and preparations continue the “Brightside” tour, which stops at the Hollywood Bowl on June 21.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

You recorded your latest album, “Brightside,” here at Rebel Lion Studio, which you designed and built from the ground up. Can you take me back to the beginning of that process and why you wanted to do it?

I grew up around my father and my mother as growing musicians trying to succeed and there was one thing I kept hearing over and over throughout my life: independence. Their whole mission was to be independent. I saw them work and I saw my father build a studio. I saw him have a space where he can do more music and control his own time. That was a dream of mine for a long time, ever since I started doing music because usually we use other people’s studios. I couldn’t have this in my house. It’s too much. It’s a dream come true.

We’re surrounded by two beautiful murals. Is there a particular item that is personal to you?

The murals are replicas of my father’s backdrops that they used. The original artwork is by Neville Garrick, but he helped us re-create them for the Bob Marley movie. These are the murals we used as the backdrop for the concert scenes. They are spiritual to me cause that’s Haile Selassie and Marcus Garvey, two very important beings for us. Inspirational.

On “Brightside,” Ziggy Marley dedicated a song to his father, Bob Marley, for the first time in his career.

(Dania Maxwell / For The Times)

“Brightside” is your ninth solo album. What mindset were you in emotionally and spiritually when you started working on it?

I never thought about making an album, I was just writing songs. You just tap into things in your subconscious that are waiting to become music, I feel like. Then when the time comes for writing songs, the time comes. It’s like a season. Like you have blueberry or orange season. So there’s a season for me when I write songs. Then you say, “All right, let’s make an album then.” But you don’t think about an album before. It’s just an expression or a feeling just to make music, not for any reason but to make it. It happened over a period of years. Ideas and experiences that eventually come out. But closer to the time I [made] the album, I remember writing some of the later songs like “Why Let the World.” It was a song that I wrote because I was feeling down and everything that was happening in the world and the country. Just so much negativity and I just felt like I needed to take a break from it. To recharge yourself. We cannot fight every day. We need to take a break and then get back to it. I needed to teach myself to take some time. It was more of a mental thing than an emotional thing. Stuff I deal with my father, personal life and stuff with my spirituality and my faith. So there’s a lot of me in this record.

“Many Mourn for Bob” is the first song you’ve explicitly written about your father. Your brother, Stephen, is also on the vocals. What surprised you emotionally once that song was finished?

I’m not sure I thought about it like that. The experience of expressing that emotion, it’s a spiritual experience. I think it shows the next stage that I probably am in and even my relationship with my father on that spiritual level. It’s a different place. We took another step in the relationship, to another place that it’s never been before. When I was doing the song, it kind of came to me like this song could’ve been my father’s song. It could’ve been a song that he wrote. That’s how I felt about it. This is partly his song. It’s me and him making this song. This song is his song too.

How has your relationship with grief changed over the years?

It’s more of a comrade, understanding, empathy and having the maturity and the experience to understand what he went through as a man, as a human being. I think that’s what it is, really. A better understanding of what he went through, not the glory. The pain, the mental and emotional state. You’re more than just an idol. You’re more than just a legend. You’re more than just a father. To go deeper than that, so that’s the next level.

Yeah, the skit you used of him saying “I’m just a man from the ghetto” on the song really summarizes that.

That’s the real him. That’s him right there. Even in the tone of his voice, you can hear the real Robert coming out.

Another standout song from the album is “Racism Is a Killa.” One thing that you do well is having a heavy topic, but finding a way to still make it feel hopeful and joyful. Why was it important for you to approach the track this way rather than from a place of anger, heaviness or sounding preachy?

I think it started out preachy and angry, but over time, it kind of evolved and I kind of evolved too ‘cause my own evolution is represented in the music. And you know something, doing that song helped me evolve because I had to think about it differently without the anger. The song made me do that. Like how else can I approach this? It’s inspiration that causes these things. It’s not an intellectual thing. I didn’t do that intellectually. Like over time, something just started coming out of me. I never really thought about it before, but I can see it now.

In the video, which features your daughter, Zuri, you referred to the condition as “Racismosis” in the video and sang about how it can be cured.

It’s kind of like a sickness, a disease. It’s a virus. We can minimize the virus and stop the disease. It’s true. Racism is a killa. This virus can kill ya. Literally kill ya. Spirtually kill ya. Emotionally kill ya. Mentally kill ya. It kill ya in different ways. It kills the victim and it kills the person perpetrating it. It’s killing everyone, but we can cure it though. It starts with the children. I have a friend of mine who said, “Yo, my little son loves this song. He doesn’t want to stop. He says ‘Put on “Racism is a Killa.”’ So that’s where the antidote is starting. The minds of the children. The music with a conscious message gives them the right consciousness that they grow up with. That is how we take our time and lower the spread of the virus.

You recently released an alternate version for “Racism Is a Killa” with Big Boi. How did that collaboration come together and what excited you about working with him?

I’ve loved Big Boi and Outkast from a long time ago. He’s a legend and a strong voice. There’s different layers to it and I feel like Big Boi took it to that other layer. So yeah, we just love Big Boi and I’m going to jump on something he does. [Laughs]

I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask your approach for your album and how you swapped the typical 440 Hz for 432 Hz. Do you remember the first time you heard the music played back that way?

It’s a long journey because for most of my life in music, I’ve tried to be a student. I’ve tried to keep an open mind and learn more and more. With this album, there’s an inspirational side of music and that’s where I lean into most of the time, but as I grew up, I started to understand there’s also a science too. It’s also mathematics. The universe, it’s all mathematics and science, and I shouldn’t shun the science of music just because I think the inspiration is all it should be. I think a part of that was learning that for myself and opening up and saying, “Yo, let me put some science into this.” Frequency. What does frequency do to people? Frequency affects people. Frequency is a weapon. It’s a tool. I’m sure the army has some kind of frequency thing. So frequency is powerful. I wanted to try something different anyway. I want to be different. I want my frequency to be different from the majority of frequencies that’s being played out there, because it’s fun for me to be different.

When I was working on the demos, I was like “Let me try this 432 Hz thing” and I like how it feels for me personally, how I sing on the frequencies. It resonates differently and makes me feel different. We did it and it felt good, and we did it live, and from my point of view, I felt a different energy with the audience too. So all of those experiments led me to the final conclusion to say, “Yeah, let me do the record in 432.” It’s really nice vibes, which the world needs a different frequency. We can use it.

This year marks the 20th anniversary of “Love Is My Religion,” your first solo Grammy-winning album. When you think back to that era of your life, who was Ziggy back then?

A lot was changing because I moved to L.A. during that time.

You got married around that time too, right?

Yeah. I don’t really fight change. I just try to navigate them and figure them out cause sometimes change is hard. There was a lot of change living here, moving around, trying to find a place, music, but then it’s like we are continuously updating ourselves. I’m continually updating. You know how you update your OS. I’m updating my OS. My operating system is being updated throughout my experience in life. There’s always something else out there for me to evolve to. So during that period of my life, “Love Is My Religion” came to me when someone asked me, “What religion are you?” And I just said “Love is my religion.” I never thought about it before, never contemplated it, never even thought of those words together before in my life, and they just came out to me that day. So the album represents a time in my life when I realized there’s a spiritual awakening that I had. “Love Is My Religion” is a spiritual awakening. That’s my thing. That’s who I am. That’s why it’s a milestone.

“If you think you’re going to change this world with music and you’re trying to send a message out there, you have to speak to children,” Ziggy Marley says.

(Dania Maxwell / For The Times)

You’re kicking off the “Brightside” tour this month, which includes a stop at the Hollywood Bowl. What are you most excited about when it comes to bringing this album to people for the first time live?

I’m excited about playing the music. I think it’s about the music. These new songs, they vibrate very highly for me and I’m excited about experiencing and expressing that. And also kind of not doing it for the audience. I don’t want to do it for the audience. I want the audience to experience what I’m experiencing, what I’m expressing. I want them to feel me. I don’t want them to be like “Hey look at me.” [Laughs] There’s still connectivity going on, but I want them to feel the songs the real way. That’s what I’m excited about for people to feel it the way that I feel it.

You even posted the lyrics and told fans to get to practicing, so they can really understand the message.

Yeah. Just reading them for me, I really like the writing I did on this. I also took some time with this too. I was saying to someone that I developed a deeper relationship with the lyrics and the words than I did before. My relationship with the words here are very mature. I feel good about it. That’s why I want people to know the words because words are very important. Words are very important. If you know the words you get a deeper understanding of what I’m talking about and what I’m feeling.

After nearly 50 years of making music, Ziggy Marley built his own studio in North Hollywood called Rebel Lion Studio. He plans to turn it into a multipurpose creative space.

(Dania Maxwell / For The Times)

Look on the bright side is a phrase that people say often, but what do those words mean to you right now?

Sometimes we can get in a place [where] we can’t see the other side of things because we’re so caught up in that one place. Like the cliché, there’s two sides to a story, ya know? The universe is always yin and yang, but there’s always another side of things. But I feel like the way we are being programmed in a way through media and everything, it’s like there’s only one side. Everything is like this, there’s nothing else going on over there that we need to see, we only need to see this. This is all that’s going on in the world. There’s nothing good, there’s nothing nice, there’s no good people, there’s no love. So it’s a realization too. A realization that there’s the other side. Never get to that place where we think it’s just that side alone because we get so much of it. It’s a reminder, I think, for us like “Come on guys.” The thing about it too, sometimes you can feel like — even for me — some people say, “Hey look on the bright side,” some people find that like “Why are you happy? Why you so chirpy?” [Laughs]

That’s true.

I’m proud that I’m on the bright side. I’m living on the bright side, I don’t care. You don’t like me because I’m living on the bright side? You want me to be like you, you want me just live on the dark side with you, right? So it’s like a proudness of being positive and having that outlook in life, and not feeling like you have to [fall to] peer pressure. More positivity in life, not just the negativity. I’m confident in that too. So it’s kind of like that too, you know, like being proud, lifting up that side of me. Yeah, I’m happy to be living on the bright side.

And yet to set foot in a WeFly cockpit is to be alternately in awe and overwhelmed. I was in a near 1:1 replica of the insides of a Boeing 737 Max. Buttons, knobs, switches and flashing lights surrounded me. And to fly a plane, I would have to let go of everything I knew about driving a car. Turning in the air, for instance, is much different than turning on a runway. And do I watch the screen, or look out the windshield? Often the former, even though I enjoyed buzzing Long Beach’s Queen Mary, flying under the Golden Gate Bridge and circling Chicago’s Wrigley Field. When it came time to land however, my palms got a little sweaty. Navigating height, winds and the steadiness of my plane was a challenge, one akin to handing a grade-schooler a calculus book, summarized Joyce. Let’s just say I needed his co-piloting skills. And I’m not great at math.

Typically, WeFly’s clientele, says Joyce, are a mix of aviation aficionados or non-commercial pilots. The space also gets a fair share of those with a fear of flight, arriving at WeFly with the hopes to conquer it. “They want a sense of control,” Joyce tells me. But WeFly is also ideal for anyone who is amazed by air flight, or those who may someday dream of being a pilot. Though it uses “Microsoft Flight Simulator,” it is no game. Sessions for 30 minutes start at $129, and WeFly’s trainers will tailor it toward one’s experience. I made sure, for instance, that crashing was turned off. But I forgot, however, to turn with the brakes when it came time to land. Yet the plane was intact, and, as Joyce reminded me, “At least you’re on airport property.”

WASHINGTON — The terms of a deal to end President Trump’s war with Iran remained a secret on Monday as both sides claimed victory and the months-long conflict reached a nebulous end.

The memorandum of understanding, providing a rough framework to conclude the war, was signed digitally Sunday, with a ceremony scheduled to take place on Friday in Switzerland, U.S. officials said.

Trump hailed the document as a breakthrough after months of negotiations. Yet its broad contours remained unclear more than a day after the deal was announced, as each side offered conflicting public messaging about what had been agreed.

Iran said it would continue regulating traffic through the Strait of Hormuz, a strategic paradigm shift from the prewar status quo that was denied by the White House. The two sides expressed disagreement over whether the status of Iran’s ballistic missile program would be addressed in future negotiations, or whether Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon was a part of the deal.

And Trump administration officials rejected Iranian claims that the United States would provide immediate sanctions relief as misleading “spin.”

Hours later, another U.S. official suggested that Iran, in fact, might receive some relief at the front end.

“We are prepared to release frozen funds, and we are prepared to release sanctions,” a senior U.S. official told reporters on a call. “And we’ll do some small gestures of that in the beginning, if they make some small gestures to us that show they’re willing to meet their commitments as well.

“We’ll know over the next two to three weeks whether those understandings will turn into actual agreement,” the official added.

Trump started the war in February citing Iran’s nuclear program, which had expanded after he withdrew from a prior nuclear agreement negotiated by President Obama. That deal capped more than two years of intensive diplomacy but ultimately failed under the weight of political criticism from Republicans — led by Trump — over its inclusion of sanctions relief for Tehran.

Trump administration officials said the new agreement would include a commitment from Iran not to develop or purchase nuclear weapons — a vow the Islamic Republic has repeatedly made through the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the Obama-era deal and a religious edict from the late supreme leader. Yet the enforcement mechanisms for policing Iran’s nuclear work were left to negotiate another day.

Iran could get sanctions relief

In an interview with CBS News, Vice President JD Vance acknowledged that Iran could get significant sanctions relief — and up to $300 billion in reconstruction funds — if they abide by U.S. terms, such as the full reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, one of the world’s most important commercial waterways.

“Our expectation is that the strait is going to be opened in a toll-free way for the long term, and that’s the sort of thing that we’re going to figure out in these technical negotiations,” Vance said.

In a separate interview, he described the president’s policy as “extending an open hand” to Tehran.

“The hard-liners of the Iranian system will overemphasize the benefits that Iran gets,” he added, “while underemphasizing all the things that they have to concede, and all the things that they have to provide, in order to get these benefits.”

Uncertainty across the region

The news of peace came with a sense of bewilderment and uncertainty in a region that suffered as collateral damage through months of war.

Sunni Arab states that once hoped Iran would emerge weakened from the war issued tepid support for an agreement that could ultimately leave the fate of their oil exports at the whims of an emboldened adversary. And Israeli leaders, across the political aisle, expressed deep concerns over the deal in private, warning they would not be bound by an agreement to which they were not a party.

Israel’s decisions moving forward — particularly in Lebanon— may ultimately decide whether the agreement survives over the next 60 days, when Washington and Tehran plan on ironing out its more technical details.

Hours after word of the signing came out, a stream of cars crowded the highway leading to southern Lebanon, full of displaced families desperate to check on homes and villages they hadn’t seen for more than 100 days.

They did so in defiance of Lebanese officials, who called on people to remain where they were until an official end to war in Lebanon — a secondary front in the larger U.S.-Israel war on Iran that has nevertheless seen staggering levels of destruction.

A woman and her children return to their Lebanese village Monday following the ceasefire announcement.

(Mohammed Zaatari / Ap Photo/mohammed Zaatari)

In the more than three months since the Lebanese Shiite group Hezbollah attacked Israel, nearly 3,800 people have been killed, and almost a quarter of the country’s 6 million people are displaced. Israeli troops occupy more than 10% of Lebanese territory, leaving a trail of destruction that has seen swaths of the country’s south all but razed.

‘Everything is gone’

None of that discouraged Hassan Shareef from leaving where he was staying in Beirut at 7 a.m. to head to Nabatieh, one of south Lebanon’s largest cities and a frequent target of Israeli strikes in recent weeks, to check on his tailoring business.

“I wasn’t afraid. I had to come. But what I saw would make you cry,” he said. “Everything is gone. My house, I can’t live in it. And the business is destroyed.”

Aqeel Khalaf, an herbalist, hit the road in the early morning with his brother, son and daughter-in-law. They reached Nabatieh in two hours.

Yet it was less of a homecoming than Khalaf hoped: Israeli troops were still stationed near his village, a few miles down the road from where he stood in Nabatieh’s central market. Their house was tantalizingly close, but for the moment it might as well have been on the moon.

“It’s hard for me, but the Lebanese army told us we can’t go yet. We have no choice,” Khalaf said. “Maybe in 24 hours, when things crystallize with the deal.”

He could at least check on his shop here in the central market, though he already knew there would be damage: The family regularly checked satellite images of the area and saw the building was hit about a week ago.

Standing before it, Khalaf saw how the wall of the adjacent building had toppled onto the ground floor, flooding the shop with rubble and coating everything with a film of fine gray dust. A nearby blast had collapsed the roof.

“Nabatieh was hit very hard this time,” he said. Still, he could salvage something, he said, pointing to his son as he fished out boxes of herbal treatments from under the rubble.

Two ceasefires in the last two months, forged during U.S.-led talks between the Lebanese and Israeli governments but without Hezbollah or Iran’s involved, were broken as soon as they were announced. A previous ceasefire from November 2024 saw Hezbollah stop all attacks while Israel continued military operations in south Lebanon.

This iteration of the truce appeared to have more success: On Monday, Hezbollah launched no missiles but announced an attack on an Israeli force to stop its advance; and the Israeli military mostly stayed its fire as well, barring a number of shelling incidents and a drone strike on a car in the village of Kfar Tebnit that injured a journalist and killed one person, according to Lebanese media.

Obstacles to a durable peace

Lebanese army units, meanwhile, deployed in parts of the south, barring motorists from reaching areas near Israeli troops. Lebanon’s army remained on the sidelines during the war, but 30 soldiers, including a general, having been killed in Israeli attacks since March 2. Hezbollah attacks killed at least 30 Israeli soldiers and one civilian contractor.

Obstacles to a more durable peace remain. Israeli officials insist on freedom of action against Hezbollah, and they will create a so-called security zone in Lebanon indefinitely so to protect Israel’s northern border. For its part, Hezbollah says it will respond to any attack and will continue fighting until Israel withdraws.

Though the truce appeared to be holding for now, Khalaf, who had raced to reopen his Nabatieh shop after the 2024 ceasefire, was waiting this time. For now, he would take what stock he could and open a shop in Sidon or Beirut.

“We have to work and feed our families. But the damage is too much this time. I’ll come back when things are better,” he said. “And my home too. When I get to see it, even if it’s a mound of rubble, I’ll pitch a tent on it and rebuild.”

Wilner reported from Washington and Bulos from Nabatieh.

WASHINGTON — President Trump planned to mark his 80th birthday on Sunday with a celebration that once would have seemed unfathomable: a cage-fighting show on the storied South Lawn of the White House.

In the week ahead, some hard realities of the office have threatened to overshadow the ostentatious UFC mixed martial arts extravaganza, where combatants sealed inside a wire-mesh octagon try to punch, kick, chop and pummel each other into submission.

Trump has found himself boxed into an unpopular and costly war he helped start in Iran. An agreement to end the conflict could be close, but the crucial details are still to be negotiated. Meanwhile, about a mile from Trump’s birthday bash, crews pried the president’s name off the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts facade after a judge ruled that renaming it to include Trump was not allowed.

Regardless, the president will walk out of the White House and be surrounded by Cabinet leaders, top administration officials, Republican lawmakers and 4,000-plus spectators screaming themselves hoarse in a temporary arena under “The Claw,” a spaceship-like metal arch fitted with lighting, sound equipment and large screens. Thousands more will be watching on big screens from the nearby Ellipse.

“This event is a one-of-one event, incredible event. I love it,” said UFC chief Dana White, a close friend of Trump, during a Friday night hype session at the Lincoln Memorial where pairs of fighters shoved and scuffled for the cameras under the stoic gaze of Honest Abe’s marble likeness.

Trump has sought to tie Sunday’s event — which features seven fights running past midnight — to larger, months-long celebrations of the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

But it is much more geared toward feting himself, so much so that the Group of 7 summit for leaders of industrialized nations pushed back their get-together so that the president could attend his cage-match party and then fly straight to France for the meetings.

The weather, though, could put a damper on things. Strong thunderstorms and heavy lightning disrupted Friday’s Lincoln Memorial event, and the forecast for Sunday evening also looked threatening.

“I’m sick and tired of hearing about the weather,” White declared Friday, before conceding that he’d prefer to hold future UFC events inside arenas only.

A very different 80th birthday celebration

When Trump’s predecessor, President Biden, turned 80 in November 2022, he celebrated with a private family brunch at the White House, a reminder of just how much and how quickly things have changed.

Asked about the contrast, White House spokesperson Allison Schuster said that the fight “will be one of the most entertaining nights in American history” and said that the timing was appropriate. “Having this spectacle take place at the people’s house on Flag Day during our nations’ semiquincentennial anniversary is a fitting tribute,” Schuster said in a statement, apparently including a punctuation error in referring to “nation’s.”

When he turned 80, Biden was the oldest president in U.S. history, and was months away from launching a reelection bid that he would ultimately abandon after a disastrous debate against Trump and mutiny among Democrats concerned that voters would perceive him as too old to handle a second term.

Trump has now supplanted Biden as the oldest person to be elected U.S. president. He’s constitutionally barred from running again, yet constantly toys with the notion publicly. That’s despite polls showing rising public skepticism about Trump’s mental and physical health — recalling concerns Biden faced as he turned 80.

A Washington Post/ABC News/Ipsos poll conducted in April found that less than half of U.S. adults think Trump has the mental sharpness or physical health to serve effectively as president.

The White House countered with a lengthy statement from Trump’s former White House physician, Republican Rep. Ronny Jackson of Texas, saying that Trump’s “stamina, focus, and strength are exceptional and on display every day. Claims to the contrary are pure fiction.” Jackson added that polling concerns were “being propagated by the same biased, liberal, Trump-hating press that completely ignored the absolute cognitive and physical disaster that was President Biden.”

Trump has nonetheless undergone four publicly announced physical examinations this term alone, with White House physician Dr. Sean Barbabella recently declaring him in “excellent health.”

‘Bread and circuses’ — Trump-style

The UFC event is an apt metaphor for Trump’s pugilistic political style. He has also long been a practitioner of political misdirection, purposely presenting people with something other than his presidency to focus on when things aren’t going well.

With the war in Iran grinding on despite weeks of assurances from Trump that its end is nigh, gas prices staying high, renewed concerns about inflation and plummeting job approval ratings for Trump — a White House birthday party unlike anything America has ever seen is definitely a diversion.

“This is all distraction,” said Mike Fontaine, a classics professor at Cornell University, who likened it to the gladiatorial games of Imperial Rome, when combatants brutalized each other for public entertainment meant to bolster rulers’ popularity and quell potential unrest.

“This is a classic strategy,” Fontaine said. “In ancient Rome, the phrase would be ‘bread and circuses.’”

Trump says the UFC is paying for the event, and though its full cost hasn’t been divulged, the National Park Service said in a court filing that $60-plus million and tens of thousands of hours of labor have gone into it, while seven government agencies have “allocated significant resources and manpower.”

UFC also announced Friday that it was adding as an official partner for the event World Liberty Financial to create a $250,000 athlete bonus pool for Sunday night’s winners. The cryptocurrency company is co-owned by the Trump family, founded with the president’s special envoy Steve Witkoff and run by the diplomat’s son Zach. The arrangement further blurs lines between the Trump family’s financial interests and the events and construction projects the president has prioritized and used government resources to pull off, which many critics and political analysts have labeled corrupt.

Still, Fontaine said that when it comes to a personal flair for pageantry, Trump’s second-term tendency to lean into “hardcore masculinity and brute fighting” is marrying the UFC’s blood sport with Trump’s distinctive sense of humor and enduring sense of showmanship.

“President Trump has a once-in-a-generation talent for this stuff,” he said.

Weissert writes for the Associated Press.

There was a time in the beginning of Sublime’s recent revival when Jakob Nowell, the son of the band’s late singer Bradley Nowell, saw himself simply as a good son trying to help his adoptive uncles — drummer Bud Gaugh and bassist Eric Wilson — restart his dad’s iconic Long Beach trio. The goal wasn’t to take the place of his frontman father who died of an overdose in 1996. “I’ll never look at it as my band. Sublime is my dad’s band, and I’m helping out, that’s all,” he told The Times in 2024. Luckily, he was wrong.

The journey of finding his own voice through his father’s sly, shambolic poetry and reggae rock anthems, along with his determination on the road with Gaugh and Wilson through a barrage of festivals and tour dates helped him eventually step into his own as a songwriter and Gen Z rock star. It’s all been done with the mission to preserving his dad’s legacy and having fun while doing it. Now it feels as natural as the trio sitting together on the waterfront in LBC’s shoreline marina within earshot of the bellowing horn of the Queen Mary earlier this year as they were finishing the recording of “Until the Sun Explodes,” the first album under the Sublime moniker in 30 years.

Just like the band’s original recipe of shoving punk, dub reggae, hip-hop and ska into a blender, the new songs dutifully stick to the formula along with Jakob’s soulful caterwauls that sound scarily similar to his dad. But what emerges from the 21-song tracklist is the evolution of a trademark sound that gives a nod to the past while standing strong on its own, just like Jakob, despite coming to the interview on crutches while healing from a performance-related knee injury. The band members chatted with The Times about recapturing the effortless essence of their immortal beach-ready sound and looking forward to a second chance to chase an endless summer.

This interview was edited for length and clarity

It’s kind of a rare thing for all three of you guys to be in one place at the same time. What was it like working in the studio together to finish the new album?

Bud Gaugh: Magical. Things are just coming together. We showed up, Jake had an idea for another song, and he sent us a little demo and said “Hey, this is what I’ve been thinking about.” And then we get down to the studio [in San Pedro], and he’s like, “Oh yeah, so I had another idea,” and kind of changed it. We jumped in there [and by the end of our sessions, we had written] brand new songs to the list of songs that we already had.

The band’s revival has been a long time in the making. I remember when you guys had your first show together, a surprise gig a couple years ago as part of a benefit show for the Bad Brains frontman H.R. Do you feel you’ve come a long way since then?

Eric Wilson: I never thought the chemistry would be like it was with Bradley.

Jakob Nowell: Especially now that we’ve been playing together this long, the chemistry is very much there. We’re just comfortable and having fun. Jamming together is the best. We get in there to do a take for a song, and I’m always like “Let’s just do like three more!” It’s just that much fun, and that’s how it feels playing live too.

When did the idea for creating a new album come about?

Gaugh: It was pretty much just while we were playing shows, At first, the idea was that we were getting together to do this benefit for H.R. [at Teragram Ballroom in December 2023]. We went from “How’s this going to work?” and then [after the show] it was like, “Wow, this is something special. We should definitely go out and play some more shows, and get this music out there and get the opportunity to bring the music to the people in the purest form that we possibly could.” As we’re doing that, it’s like we’re seeing the reaction in the fans, and we were feeling it emotionally. We realized this is going to be bigger than we ever thought. That’s when we really decided where it was going to go.

Jakob Nowell, right, once thought Sublime was only his late father’s band; now, fronting the Long Beach trio, he’s leading a new chapter that still honors Bradley Nowell’s legacy.

(Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times)

Were any of the songs on the new album mined from previously unreleased material or did you start fresh?

Nowell: There was that song we did with Stick Figure [“Feel Like That”], so I think that kind of inspired us. [We realized] “Oh s—, there really is some meat on the bone.” And then I had found some old recordings of stuff that were just like jams without even like vocals or whatever. Then it became just this thing during sound check or maybe in the middle of sets, we’d just start jamming these random progressions and stuff, and it kind of just evolved from there naturally.

The new songs that I’ve heard fit right in the vein of what people love about Sublime. What was it like putting some of those new songs in the setlist as you were building them?

Nowell: It was like magic. We were joking yesterday that sometimes we’ll play a new song for the first time just randomly and I’d see people try mouthing the lyrics and stuff and I’ll say “you’ve never even heard this before! I know you haven’t. We don’t even really know what the hell we’re saying.”

Gaugh: You frontin’! [Laughs]

Nowell: But [the new material] sounded like it was supposed to be there, so it was kind of a rad little test in a lot of ways. We almost don’t even have to think about it. That’s always going to be the guiding goal of any band trying to make fun music that’s relatable.

Wilson: What if you’re Slayer? That’s not true if you’re Slayer.

Jakob, it seems like you’ve gotten a lot more comfortable in the frontman role since joining the band. What’s it like just taking the lead, not just for the sake of your dad, but for the fans?

Nowell: Oh, dude, it’s the best. I don’t even have to think about it. We really feel like this is — we’re a band, you know?

Gaugh: It’s [Jakob’s] band too. Now it’s our band. It’s us.

Nowell: It feels like that whenever we’re hanging out, just doing stuff, or at the studio or at these shows. So, this upcoming year feels like a really rad adventure. We got all these different eras [of fans] — people who were in their 50s when [Sublime’s] first stuff dropped, who are still alive, and then their kids and their grandkids and great grandkids. Everybody finds a piece of the discography they can relate to. That’s what is most exciting. It’s not just one or two songs, people sing along to everything.

I was at Warped Tour in Long Beach last year when you guys played and —

Nowell: That was my favorite set!

To me that felt like it encapsulated what you were talking about with the multigenerational groups of fans that have enjoyed you guys and associate you with Long Beach.

Gaugh: It was like a homecoming for me. I remembered playing the Chili Cook off, you know, right over there in the same area [as Warped Tour], and it was just bringing me back 30 years. It’s so meaningful to be in our backyard playing our music again, right there. This is where it all started. It’s come full circle.

Nowell: It was like playing at a local bar in a cool way. I had this huge group of people up front, they were just talking and shouting and saying stuff, like f–ing with us and joking around. I was like “Damn this is great!”

How about you, Eric? How’d you feel playing Warped?

Wilson: [Mumbles] It was f–ing awesome.

Now that you’ve played all these festival shows, from Coachella to No Values, you’ve got your own festival going on. Can you talk a little bit about Sublime Fest and your Sublime Reef Madness Cruise and how you came up with it?

Nowell: We could put on a bunch of the bands we love, and some of our boys, like Vandals, and make it our own vibe.

Gaugh: You walk around Coachella and there’s so many different elements there. Wouldn’t it be neat if we could make like all this like a Long Beach element, a Sublime element. Looking at this thing, it’s like “Oh wow. So we can actually get some of our friends and set up like a tattoo booth, and have our idea of art and everything out there, and mix it all together — food, art, music — bringing all these different elements, and friends of ours that play music. We get to decide who’s going to share the stage with us, so it’s really neat. It’s like planning a high school party or something like that.

Nowell: The biggest backyard party ever seen.

You guys always had your own sound going on, what’s it like to see that the fans still want it?

Wilson: It took a lotta years to catch on, but it did.

Nowell: Yeah, the kids really want that, like ‘90s, Y2K kind of vibe. That was the last era of like cool authenticity and stuff. You can see it when young people make stuff to look retro … when things get so high fidelity, we’re almost losing a little element, so I think these festivals kind of seek to bring some of that back in a way that everybody can get into.

With “Until the Sun Explodes,” Sublime’s first album in three decades, Jakob Nowell, Bud Gaugh and Eric Wilson rediscover their studio chemistry, jamming new songs that feel instantly familiar onstage.

(Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times)

You guys also have the timeless iconography of the Sublime sun logo. The title of the album is “Until the Sun Explodes.” Does that title have any particular meaning to you?

Nowell: It’s almost just another way of saying “forever,” like “Oh baby I’m gonna love you till the sun blows up.” That’s gonna happen in billions of years, if at all. The fact that [Sublime’s] lasted this long and has this many fans is evidence to me that we wanna be here forever. I think that’s what everybody wants for themselves.

Jake, you’ve taken steps to advance your own aspirations and music with your label, Sunburnt Records, how does that fit into where Sublime is right now?

I was inspired by the whole Skunk Records thing [Sublime’s first label], Evan Zinger with [his lifestyle brand] SRH, and just all the local brands I grew up with when I was a kid. So just trying to do a cool, chill local thing that has that vibe of putting on small shows and kind of getting to use this new notoriety to be like, man, I have so many friends in these small bands like Strange Case and Eight Ball, and other bands up and down Southern California. Let’s put on shows and sneak them on a Sunburnt Stage at [Sublime Fest] and if people really like that Sublime sound here’s a bunch of kids who are carrying the torch like Slightly Stoopid did when they started out. Mike Watt always said “start your own band!” So the more we can inspire people to do that and be some small part of that, it’s a dream come true.

Do you feel like this version of Sublime is something Brad would be proud of?

Gaugh: We all kind of brought our own element to the music orignally. So we just kind of followed that recipe. Jake’s his own person, he’s got his own influences, and we just kind of stick with that idea. Jake brings in his feelings, and Eric brings in his and we sat there and recorded this song, and then as we were recording it, we’re coming up with ideas. It’s like, “Oh wait, we should do this here, slow that down there, stop here,” it’s all a conglomeration of ideas, everyone does their part, brings in their own spices and we mix it in a pot like gumbo.

Some people are still processing “Euphoria’s” evolution away from its roots as a gritty drama that explored highly mature and dark teenage experiences to, in its final season, a fever dream-esque look at adulthood that played like a full-blown neo-noir crime thriller. But another show’s creative transformation has taken the stage now.

The third season of AMC’s adaptation of Anne Rice’s “Interview With the Vampire” brings a reset to the captivating world of bloodsuckers. While the first two seasons adapt the original 1976 novel, relying heavily on the recollection of Louis de Pointe du Lac (Jacob Anderson) as he recounts his centuries-long life and romance with Lestat de Lioncourt (Sam Reid) to a journalist, the new season shifts narrative focus and perspective over to Lestat, who transforms into a charismatic frontman of a glam-rock band to publicly set the record straight. As such, the series has been retitled “The Vampire Lestat,” which is the name of Rice’s second novel. For this week’s Guest Spot, I spoke with showrunner Rolin Jones about the show’s rebranding and Reid’s commitment to the musical challenge.

Also in this week’s Screen Gab, TV critic Robert Lloyd steers us away from the usual streaming options to recommend a man’s video journal that documents his quest to travel the world by foot, while culture critic Mary McNamara suggests a new British comedy about codependent BFFs navigating the sort of tricky development that would end most friendships.

Speaking of endings to relationships, it was announced this week that “Doctor Who” showrunner Russell T Davies is exiting the series (again) seven months after Disney+ decided not to continue its partnership with the BBC to distribute the long-running sci-fi series. BBC also announced it will not air the show’s previously announced Christmas special this year. Lloyd, a longtime Whoverse follower, is a voice of calm through it all. He shares his thoughts on why the new questions swirling around the franchise don’t necessarily have to be cause for alarm — evolution is part of the show’s essence, he reminds us. Elsewhere in current events, if you’ve been curious (… sure, that’s the right word!) about the UFC Freedom 250 live event that will unfold in an oversize cage on the White House South Lawn in celebration of Trump’s 80th birthday and the country’s 250th anniversary — and will be streamed live on Paramount+ — check out our explainer about the controversy — and lawsuit — it has sparked.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have another Matthew Rhys story to read so I can maintain my executive membership in the fan club. See you next week!

— Yvonne Villarreal

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Recommendations from the film and TV experts at The Times

@AlexanderCampbellOfficial (YouTube)

In February 2023, Alexander Campbell, then 27, set out from Sydney to walk west around the world. Currently he is somewhere around Albania, having traversed, among other places, Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Turkey and Bulgaria. He’s been documenting his progress on camera all along the way, but it wasn’t until Day 938, in Georgia, that he began posting the longer, “uneventful” videos that make his channel such a singular, meditative, even hypnotic, form of vicarious travel. Walking alone to the sound of his own footsteps, through sun, rain, sleet, snow and dark of night, over mountains and deserts, through forests and fields, he becomes a character in a peripatetic, nearly one-man show. The occasionally encountered friendly local will warn him about wolves or bears or the hunters who might mistake him for one, though he meets more dogs than people. (He calls them all “Buddy,” warily.) Titles include “I Slept in a Barn Full of Stray Dogs,” “I Got Caught in a Snowstorm With Nowhere to Sleep” and “Something Was Out There in the Forest.”) — Robert Lloyd

Jemaine Clement, left, and Nicola Walker in “Alice and Steve.”

(Lara Cornell / Hulu)

“Alice and Steve” (Hulu, Disney+)

What would you do if your ex-turned-longtime bestie slept with your 26-year-old daughter? Well, Alice (“The Split’s” Nicola Walker) 100% loses her mind. Sure, during a drunken convo at a bar, she did tell Steve (“Flight of the Conchords’” Jemaine Clement) that he could have any woman he wanted, but she most certainly wasn’t talking about Izzy (Yali Topol Margalith). Having just returned home after breaking up with her boyfriend, Izzy decides that Steve, now bunking down on the sofa, is “strangely hot” enough for a little rebound sex and then a romantic relationship. And Steve, though initially regretful and more than a little shell-shocked, decides this is what he wants too. “I really like her,” he says by way of sheepish explanation. It leaves Alice no choice but to hilariously alternate between screaming and scheming as she tries to put a stop to the proceedings even at the expense of her marriage, her career, her friendship with Steve and her self-respect.

Clement’s sad-sack charm successfully boosts the leap of faith required to keep Steve from becoming an oblivious creep, but the show belongs to Walker. Her Alice becomes a blazing embodiment of the emotional maelstrom inside every woman who is expected to somehow put on a supportive, understanding face no matter how outrageous or impossible the situation. The laughs she elicits are exhalations of shock, recognition and relief. We can’t all ditch the high road for pure, luxurious fury, but it’s mighty fun to watch someone who does. — Mary McNamara

Guest spot

A weekly chat with actors, writers, directors and more about what they’re working on — and what they’re watching

Sam Reid as Lestat De Lioncourt in “The Vampire Lestat.”

(Sophie Giraud / AMC)

If you thought posting cryptic digs about an ex on your social media accounts as a way to cope with unresolved emotions was petty, this TV vampire may have you beat. The wild new, music-infused season of “The Vampire Lestat” (formerly “Interview With the Vampire”) revolves around Lestat de Lioncourt (Reid) on an elaborate mission to tell his side of the story after his ex-lover, Louis de Pointe du Lac (Anderson) published a scandalous memoir — with the help of journalist — that detailed their turbulent romance. In his bid to control the narrative, Lestat becomes an immortal glam rocker who launches a music tour and enlists the same journalist — newly turned into a vampire — to direct and film a music documentary about his life. The result is a flamboyant seven-episode season that blends rock-opera style performances (the season will feature 20 original songs) with personal reflections from its flashy frontman. As it enters its second week of release on AMC and AMC+, creator and showrunner Rolin Jones spoke over video call recently to discuss the show’s creative pivot and more. — Y.V.

To kick off the new season, there was an immersive premiere concert event at the historic Beacon Theatre in New York City earlier this month. Was that a surreal experience? Did you feel like a music manager?

I have a hard time talking about the work — the selling of the work, all that kind of stuff. I want to finish my edit, and then I want to like disappear at the Arctic. I knew we were doing this and I knew that there were like fans from all over the world flying in for it — some who didn’t have tickets. I knew there were people who had worked on the show from Seasons 1, 2, and 3 who got on a plane, asked for a ticket, and made a pilgrimage there. I was really moved by it. It was about as good as these things can ever be. It felt really beautiful. It felt like Vampire Church. It was pretty cool. And Sam — “surprising” is not the word because I’ve worked with him for a long time — was way better than he should have been. It’s incredible.

In this TV landscape, taking a show and giving it a new title as it enters its third season is a daring move. The series moves focus to the second book in Rice’s oeuvre. And while it continues the story of these characters, at the same time, it feels like a new show. What made you nervous about carrying out that kind of creative transformation? And what was thrilling about it?

We could start with a thrilling part because the idea to be able to go to the people who worked really hard and say, “Hey, let’s rebuild it” — that’s exciting. That part’s cool. The executing part about it is where the terror begins because most worthwhile art — you can call TV art — invariably has to have risk and danger involved in it, otherwise you’re probably performing a magic trick. No offense to magicians. But you want something that when you turn off the TV, you’re not immediately forgetting. The more risk you do, in terms of form, in terms of all that, you want to be able to feel like you can pull it off because, otherwise, they [the audience] have nothing to grasp onto. [And they say,] “You just destroyed this thing we love, how dare you!” But generally speaking, everybody — from the top of the network down to the actors who are doing it — was down for it. Mostly because, if you listen to our fandom, I think they demand it. They’re out there on a limb telling everybody “it’s the greatest TV show, and blah blah blah” and you have to deliver that for them so that they can continually confidently bombard all their friends and neighbors and say, “Watch the show.” There’s nobody who didn’t give everything [to this season]. It was a real collective leap together.

Sam undergoes quite the transformation to make this rock star vampire persona believable. What struck you about how he approached embodying Lestat this season?

I gained 20 pounds in Toronto, and that’s because I kept stuffing my face with bread, and about every three or four times I would have this big sloth of butter on bread, I’d go, “Poor Sam” because I know Sam had not touched a piece of bread. Let’s start there — 0% body fat, the dimensions on the waist. The level of dedication. He was living and breathing every second about the role and about the demands of it — sing songs, and not only sing songs, but go learn to be a musician, and go train with people who have been doing it their whole life so you can fake it. I feel very confident saying this: Anybody who watches this season and Sam’s performance will feel like, at the end, they saw one of the 10 greatest performances in the history of our medium. I think he absolutely disappeared. James Gandolfini did not sing songs, Swearengen [the “Deadwood” character played by Ian McShane] did not sing songs. Mr. White [the “Breaking Bad character played by Bryan Cranston] did not sing songs. I’ll put him [Sam] up against all of them. He’s incredible.

What if he wants to go off and be a rock star now?

He could do it.

Jacob Anderson as Louis De Pointe Du Lac in Season 3 of “The Vampire Lestat.”

(Sophie Giraud / AMC)

You have a rock band posing as vampires fronted by an actual vampire who is the focus of a documentary being directed by a vampire passing as a human. And for all this to work, the band has to be good. What was the challenge of making this fictional band’s stardom believable — the charisma, the presence on stage, the discography? It’s a tall order, in addition to making a compelling TV show.

Anytime you have seen these things, following a band, there’s so many ways it can fall flat. You can do three or four of the things you need to do, and if one of them falls apart, you’re still stuck there, going, “Eh.” We all, who are working on it, love music. We’ve all been in clubs. The first thing we did was remove the stardom for budget reasons, but also for singular storytelling — he decided to do rock ’n’ roll in the year 2025. Some basic building blocks, we need songs. So with [composer and songwriter] Daniel Hart, we bring him into the [writers’] room because it’s not only writing songs, but writing the context about when and where he’s [Reid] singing them. He has to be aware of what we’re doing in the room. We also have to be able to pivot when he has pure inspiration; he can come in with something we’ve never talked about, and go “Boom!” And it’s OK, now what do we do with this song? And quite often this year we restructured episodes because the song was beating our episode. [We had to] hire actors who can play or musicians that can act — and that’s not everybody, so that shrinks that down. Make sure when you’re in the club, or whether you’re singing the song in rehearsal, let us uglify it, embrace the mistake, make it a little dirty. We have a song this year that has some of the most beautiful orchestrations, but because of where it landed in the season and what it talked about, we ended up going with the most stripped down, bare version of it. Don’t worry, you’ll get to hear these beautiful orchestrations [at some point]. [It’s also thinking about] how do you carve out the time you need to shoot it and the playback elements of it, and what sacrifices you have to make on other set pieces that you would normally put in is a lot. But everything from the beginning was with one thing in mind: Do not suck. How can we suck less? Let’s not suck. And we just kept going over and over again with that.

At the end of the first episode we see Lestat reunited with his undead mom, Gabriella, who he has, I think it’s fair to say, an oddly intimate relationship with —

Multifaceted.

And obviously the Louis-Lestat romance is far from being over. What are you interested in exploring within those two dynamics, in particular, moving forward since they’re so central to Lestat?

It becomes immediately about him going, “Let me try to explain this … I might have just repelled 80% of you.” I’m really interested in the viewers who are really off-put by it. I want to see where they’re at by the end of Episode 7, if they trust us. And see what they’re feeling. I guess [some people feel], “Oh, you’re not allowed to do this in the TV world unless you got f— dragons and s—, but all the things that you would have thought [that the network might say], “Don’t do this,” we didn’t really have a lot of those obstacles. There was a lot of trust. The thing with the Lestat character is like it’s probably harder to cuddle up to him like you could Louis. Louis is a Faustian tale; here it’s like a Faustian tale but Elton John’s at the center of it. There’s a series of questions like “Why do you keep doing this to yourself? Why do you keep get trapped into these things?” It’s like going on odyssey, or as Jacob called it, an idiocy, with a character that is exotic and eccentric and contradictory. For us going forward, as we wrote it, every time we fell into the something that felt well-made or cool on a twist or turn level, we found we were very suspicious of it, and we were trying to make alien TV as best we could. So, what do I want? It’s less about exploring those two dynamics, although they’re richly part of this fabric. It was, how can you take them on a magic carpet ride, a very difficult one? The idea is to actually have, by the end, every single person recognize that part of themselves in him. And how can you normalize him over seven episodes? How can you deliver that to an audience?

I know you’ve been super–busy, but what’s the last thing you watched that you found yourself recommending to everyone or something that you were obsessed with right now?

A TV show I’m watching, one that I’m enjoying right now, is “Widow’s Bay” [Apple TV]— that has been very enjoyable. It’s so much fun.

Matthew Rhys’ facial expressions are so good.

Oh, he’s great, and that show just really knows what it is, and is joyfully silly, and has a great atmosphere. It’s one of the most beautifully shot things I’ve seen in a while. I’m not finished yet.

OK, before I let you go, I hope we get a concert out in L.A. at some point.

Wouldn’t that be nice? Where would you put it up? Echoplex?

Maybe the Troubadour.

What about the Greek? That would be nice.

ICYMI

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Fred Armisen loves living in Los Angeles.

“It’s my favorite city in the world,” says the comedian, musician and actor best known for the beloved sketch comedy series “Portlandia” and for “Saturday Night Live.” “It has a really strong sense of community for such a giant city,” he adds, noting the recent celebration surrounding the new Los Angeles County Museum of Art and Metro’s D Line extension.

In Sunday Funday, L.A. people give us a play-by-play of their ideal Sunday around town. Find ideas and inspiration on where to go, what to eat and how to enjoy life on the weekends.

Armisen enjoys being behind the wheel, which is how he first noticed Hulu’s “Deli Boys,” where he plays casino boss Max Sugar in the show’s second season.

“Strangely, I was a fan before I was a fan of the show,” he says. “I was a fan of the billboards. I saw ads for it, and I was immediately curious. Like, ‘What is that? Why is it called ‘Deli Boys’? Who are these people?’ There was something about the three leads, a sort of chemistry or charisma, that I wanted to be a part of.”

For him, the perfect Sunday involves traversing the city, checking out record stores and visiting museums like the Museum of Jurassic Technology in Culver City. “I fell in love with it as its own art piece,” he says. He also enjoys going to live shows, sometimes performing and spending time at home with his family. For him, the ideal day in L.A. “is a mix of all of those things.”

The one place you won’t find the sun-averse actor is the beach. “Los Angeles is a great place for people who hate the sun,” he says. “There’s a goth quality to it. So many of the best punk bands came out of Los Angeles.” He appreciates that you can avoid the sun by staying in your car. “It feels like I get to confront my hatred for the sun without being in it,” he says.

This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for length and clarity.

5 a.m.: Early rising

I love Los Angeles so much that sometimes, when I wake up, it’s still dark outside. So it’ll be, like, 5 or 6 o’clock in the morning, and it’s dark, but the palm trees are silhouetted in the sky. Right away, I’ll have granola or Grape Nuts with almond milk and blueberries. And then I just like to sit in silence while it’s still dark out, while sipping two mugs of coffee. If I do go out, the Village Bakery and Cafe on Los Feliz Boulevard is really nice for breakfast or if you have to meet someone. There is a scramble there that I really like. But lately, I’ve also been getting granola with yogurt.

8 a.m.: Make it a work day in Elysian Valley, a.k.a. Frogtown

I like to make every day a work day. So even if I have a day off, I still try to do one work-related task. I have a music-and-writing space in Frogtown where I’ve had an office for a while. I had one there when we wrote “Portlandia.” I’ve got my drums set up, and I usually like to get things ready for touring. I have all these flight cases and drums there and I get all my equipment together. I’ll just clean them up a little bit. Sometimes I practice — not practicing to get my rudiments up for drumming — but just because I enjoy drumming so much. 


11 a.m:. Lunch in Frogtown

There are a few places in Frogtown where I like to have lunch. There’s a vegan cafe near me called Just What I Kneaded, which is great, or the Spoke Bicycle Cafe, which is a little down the river. I like the chickpea farro bowl with Brussels sprouts and tempeh. Sometimes I’ll go to Wax Paper and order the Kai Ryssdal sandwich. Their sandwiches are really good and are named for National Public Radio hosts. We have to embrace being pretentious. I think in these cafes, we should talk about the Velvet Underground. It’s almost like cosplaying. Like, let’s really be Silver Lake. Well, you know, with bicycles.

1 p.m.: Run errands at the Americana at Brand

I can’t just stay in Frogtown, so
I’d next go to the Americana at Brand outdoor mall because sometimes, when a place is devoid of all those pretensions, it’s actually very relaxing. You can walk around and get a lot of errands done. I love the sushi place the Bar — Hand Rolls by Seabutter.

2 p.m.: Take a drive through Griffith Park

I love driving. That’s one thing that I love about Los Angeles. Everywhere I go, I get to be in my car. 
I like listening to the radio. It’s just a peaceful place to be. There’s something special about it, especially as day turns into dusk. I like going down Sunset Boulevard or Beverly Boulevard. I also love driving Crystal Springs Drive through Griffith Park. It is the prettiest drive. The speed limit is nice and slow. In the summer, there’s a free Shakespeare festival in that same park. I haven’t made it yet because I’m usually traveling, but I’ve always wanted to go.

3 p.m.: Hit the record stores

I know it’s a cliché for me to say I go to record stores, but I do. I like going to Amoeba Music in Hollywood. I’ll get any reissue, like a new box set. And there’s always something that’s just come out. Sometimes I’ll go to a musical instrument store called Caveman Vintage Music in Lincoln Heights just to pick up a few things that I’ll need, you know, drumsticks or whatever. Or sometimes I’ll get a weird little amp or keyboard.

6 p.m.: Sushi dinner in Glendale

If I go out to dinner, I like going to Sasabune in Glendale. It’s on the third floor of a building near the Americana. In my opinion, Los Angeles has the best sushi in the world. Ventura Boulevard in the Valley is amazing, but this place is my favorite restaurant in the world. Wow. I love it.

8 p.m.: See live music

Once a month, although not usually on Sundays, I play covers at a bar and record store called Permanent Records Roadhouse in Cypress Park. Sometimes I do stand-up at Largo at the Coronet. But I love to see live bands. The Bellwether and the Teragram Ballroom are great venues to see bands. Those two, I’d say, are my two favorites to go to because I like a little bit of space, because I can’t be up at the front. You know, I’m so famous that bands stop playing [laughs] when they see me. No, I’m just a patron. I’m a fan. The Greek Theatre is a fantastic place to see live music. And the Ford amphitheater! The last time I went, I thought,
‘Why don’t I come to every show here?‘ because it’s the perfect size. It’s outdoors. It’s not gigantic. Every seat is good. It’s really, really great. I saw Neil Young there. I saw Paul McCartney at the Fonda Theatre in March, and he was unbelievable. I love that he played there. I like the Hollywood Bowl, obviously, but everybody knows that.

Shrek’s abs are more defined than some might expect. Or is it that the shade of his green skin makes them appear more chiseled under bright lights? Maybe it’s just disorienting because no one anticipated gawking at his torso inside the historic downtown Los Angeles venue founded by Hollywood legends Charlie Chaplin, Mary Pickford, Douglas Fairbanks and D.W. Griffith.

These are thoughts that swirl in one’s head while attending this year’s Las Culturistas Culture Awards ceremony, held on a recent Saturday night at the United Theater. An offshoot of the popular podcast that actor-comedians Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang have hosted since 2016, the award show aims to celebrate the year’s biggest pop culture moments and plays like a fever dream more dazzling and deliciously random than a late-night scroll session on TikTok.

After launching in 2022 as a live event outdoors at Lincoln Center, the guerrilla awards show reached TV screens for the first time last year. This year’s ceremony, which will air June 17 on Bravo and stream on Peacock, coincides with the podcast’s 10th anniversary and features a kaleidoscopic array of attendees, including screen veterans like Lisa Kudrow and Will Ferrell, reality TV favorites like “Summer House’s” Ciara Miller and “The Real Housewives of Dubai’s” Chanel Ayan, and anthropomorphic icons like Miss Piggy and a certain green ogre. And the prizes? It’s the only place you can find categories like “Real Housewives Award for Best Way to Start a Confrontation,” “Pornhub Category We Would Never Click On” and “Hilary Duff Award for Millennial Excellence.”

Over lunch at the NBCUniversal lot in Universal City, Rogers and Yang discussed the show’s evolution. These are edited excerpts from the conversation.

Matt Rogers, left foreground, and Bowen Yang perform a musical number inspired by “Heated Rivalry” during this year’s Las Culturistas Culture Awards.

(Monty Brinton / Bravo)

I will probably regret starting our conversation this way, but we all have our blind spots and, to thoroughly prepare for this interview, I watched “Shrek” for the first time last night.

Yang: Oh great! The first one?

Rogers: How’d you feel?

I get it now.

Rogers: Get what, that he is attractive or …?

I’m not quite there yet. You guys reference the film a lot on your podcast and Shrek has also been a figure on the awards show, including this year. I was hoping you’d explain Shrek as a heartthrob to me as if we’re in a pop culture class. When did this idea really take shape?

Yang: Over at least a couple years, to my knowledge, there’s been this online meme culture around Shrek, where it’s like, “Oh my God, Shrek is like a sex king,” but now it’s even spilled over into like dating life. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this, but there’s a verb called Shreking in dating, where it has to do with women dating a guy that’s below their league because he will be nice to them; he will be a Shrek to their Fiona. That’s an interesting thing — you date someone slightly in another zone than you, so that you can be like, “Well, that’s my Shrek,” but meanwhile, there’s the tension between that and Shrek being someone that people are actually attracted to. This just speaks to the enduring power of Shrek as a pop culture icon.

Rogers: I think what it is, is he has an amazing accent. It’s a very powerful thing. He’s independent, he’s self-sufficient, he’s a movie star.

Yang: He said it at the awards. I mean, he’s a rich celebrity.

Rogers: We saw the real Shrek at the awards and he looks pretty f—ing good to me.

Yang: He looked good to me. I don’t know what these Gen Zers are talking about with this Shrek being below your league.

What are the calls with publicists like now to get their clients to participate?

Yang: Last year was a communication puzzle to solve. We were like, “OK, we have to really convey this the right way.” We thought, perhaps naively, now that we’ve done it, now that there’s a proof of concept, it’s going to be much clearer. I think it was clearer, but there was still that degree of, “oh, this is …” — not to like give ourselves too much credit, but this is a concentric circle outside of what is very established in the form of an award show. You’ve got publicists who are like, “Well, we would love for our client to win an award.” And you’re like, “No, that’s not really the point.”

Rogers: Presenting is just as good as winning, just as good as performing. But I think it’s weird that we have been so late to stumble on what the show really is, which is it’s a variety show. And, so, in wrapping your head around it that way, it’s actually pretty easy to get across. It just has the drag of an award show, and that’s our way in.

But I do understand the publicist hesitation because I will say, in a world where it’s your job to protect your client, you’re putting them in a situation that is like, “OK, they’re going to an award show — that’s something this town takes very seriously.” So, it’s an ask to be like, “Hey, can you come take the piss out of this concept that you’re then probably gonna spend eight months of the year trying to actually achieve?” I would be lying if I said that we didn’t want one day to win one of those awards. It’s an acknowledgment of your work, but in that, Bowen and I think the No. 1 thing that’s the funniest thing in the world is people who take themselves that seriously. It’s a healthy mix of appreciation for this thing that was actually a big element of the culture that made us say culture was for us, which was watching award shows when we were kids, and also the reality that we now know as people that are in the industry of what they really are, which is they’re just shows. We’re not condemning them, we’re having fun with it.

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1. Scenes from the 2025 Las Culturistas Culture Awards: Jeff Goldblum, left, accepting the award for Most Amazing Impact in Film for his appearance in “Jurassic Park,” alongside presenter Patti Harrison. (Griffin Nagel / Bravo) 2. Allison Janney was a guest of honor, receiving the Lifetime of Culture award. (Jordan Strauss / Bravo)

Have you been asked to tweak the name of a category or punch it up even more?

Yang: Last week was the window when our producers could be very honest with us and say if something may not be working. Back to the Shrek [bit in this year’s show], actually, that ended up being much dirtier and bluer than it was on stage.

Really? I already knew I wouldn’t be able to include the award category because of Times standards. So the actual bit was raunchier?

Yang: It was even raunchier. It went for it.

Rogers: But it’s also a testament to how much freedom they give us to make our show. If they were concerned at all about us desecrating the image of Shrek, we certainly did not feel that way. I am really shocked and grateful that we get to do something that it feels like we’re getting away with something.

Take me back in time with young Bowen and young Matt. What do you remember about your enthusiasm for award shows growing up?

Yang: It was watching Billy Crystal at the Oscars do song and dance numbers, zing these things in for a laugh that we’re referencing the year, being in these video packages where he was in the movies. That it was live television and just this pageantry of people congratulating themselves, congratulating each other. I would tune in live every single year to all the award shows and I would follow the host changes. I remember Whoopi’s first year [hosting the Oscars]; I remember Ellen’s first year. I was really obsessive. It opened the door for all these things that I currently love, and that I’ve somehow had a fortunate experience in, which is live television, song and dance numbers — everything that Billy Crystal was doing. It keyed me in on how show business works, down to production elements and how filmmaking comes together.

Rogers: I just remember, I looked at the screen and I was like, “Oh, that’s where I belong. I belong with them. I don’t belong out here.” I was one of those Gold Derby kids — I would be on the forums; I still sometimes look at the odds and rankings and stuff. It was like gay sports, particularly with the best actress and best supporting actress races. And then obviously the Grammys, and all of that. One year I was watching, I think it was the People’s Choice Awards or the American Music Awards or something, and Shania Twain lost to LeAnn Rimes, and I cried for a day. I took it so seriously and my mother turned to me and said, “You need to stop.” But you couldn’t tell me it didn’t matter at the time. [Reporter’s note: Twain lost the favorite country new artist award to Rimes at the 1997 American Music Awards.]

As the profile of Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers’ variety-style award show has risen, getting stars on board is an interesting puzzle: “You’ve got publicists who are like, ‘Well, we would love for our client to win an award,’” Yang says. “And you’re like, ‘No, that’s not really the point.’”

(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)

What do you remember about your first experience at a major awards show?

Rogers: He was nominated as writer for “SNL” and took me as his date. We were sitting there — the “Queer Eye” guys were sitting like three rows behind us.

Yang: We watched Phoebe Waller-Bridge sweep with “Fleabag.”

Rogers: We watched Michelle Williams win for “Fosse/Verdon.” It was funny because we had gone to the bar and were double-fisting drinks back to the seats and I said to Bowen, “Oh my God, I’m like the Busy Philipps to your Michelle Williams.”

Yang: And who shows up behind us?

Rogers: Busy Philipps taps on our shoulders and goes, “You guys are killing it with those drinks.” And I’m like, she doesn’t even know I’m her. Cut to minutes later, Michelle walking up and giving a banger of a speech.

Yang: That was like our first brush with it. Even now we go to these, and we’re like, this is really something; it’s incredible. We were at the Oscars last year, front row, witnessing all of it go down, witnessing the moment where upsets would happen, feeling the vibe in the room shift. The benefit of our show is that the vibe is pretty high throughout; it does not decline as soon as there are losers in the room.

Las Culturistas Culture Awards took place in late May and is being telecast roughly two weeks later. Do you see it ever going the live route?

Yang: We don’t know. That is my not so secret dream, is to do it live one day. There’s just something about doing it live — and it occurs to me now that I’ve been very lucky and fortunate to have have my reps in. There’s just something so wonderful about it being this event where everyone is tuning in, enjoying it the same time you are. That is really something special.

Rogers: If he’s down, I’m down.

I’m sure this changes each year, but who’s your dream person to snag for an appearance?

Rogers: I would say the people that make it very apparent that they have sketch comedy and impression skills, and maybe you wouldn’t necessarily know that they do until they show that.

Yang: Ariana Grande.

Rogers: Our dream was for Ariana to come do an original character. We actually floated to her the idea — there was going to be like a Banksy reveal of MsMojo, and it was going to be revealed that it was Ariana Grande was MsMojo. But she actually was in rehearsals for the Eternal Sunshine World Tour. Little did we know she also was recording “Petal.” She was a bit too busy to play MsMojo, I guess, this time.

Yang: These two are forever paired in my head, but it’s because she’s another sketch performer: Cher. And sometimes the dream guests are not big names, it’s the people that we came up with in comedy. And actually one of the consumer research reports that we got back before we started writing this year’s show was that the thing that people loved about the Culture Awards was this crossover of reality talent, A-listers and Oscar winners, and comedy people — that mix, those three [types of] people mingling together is what the viewers want.

Rogers: I’m just so proud in every single way of the diverse array of talent that we were able to bring together. I looked out in the audience and it was just a party of so many friends and people we’ve met in the business — people that I didn’t even get to meet that night, but I was just gagged they’re there, especially in the edit, which you’ll see. This is Bowen’s first year in the edit, he had to miss it last year, but that’s what’s so cool about going through the footage, is you’re like, “Oh my God, there’s someone I’ve loved my entire life next to my cousin.” We were saying to each other that it ended up being like a weird love letter to our younger selves, having Mandy Moore and singing “Only Hope” with her and doing the “Pokémon” theme song and getting to hang out with Pikachu.

Do you worry about it ever getting too big?

Rogers: If it ever gets to a point where it couldn’t be funny, that wouldn’t work. We want it to always stay true to what it is, which is it’s our comedy special together. As long as it doesn’t feel like it’s selling out — and I can understand people watching it and being like, “Oh, they obviously had to have Nintendo characters because it’s NBCUniversal or obviously they had to include “Summer House” — none of that is true.

Yang: There’s no mandate.

Rogers: This is genuinely what we would want the show to be, and so as long as it’s that, we’re good.

So what’s your “I don’t think so, honey” on awards shows?

Rogers: I don’t think so, honey — 10 nominees for best picture at the Oscars. Why?

Yang: Totally. Tea.

Rogers: I actually think it helps things that are weirder win because it’s too many. And the way that they ranked choices. I’m a popular-vote person anyway.

Yang: I need us to really get on the same page about play-off music. Sometimes people are encouraged to go on, sometimes we turn against that. Let’s stop innovating, let’s stop trying to break the mold on them. Let’s just respect that as much as we can, unless it’s egregious.

And it’s always a bit within the show.

Yang: This is what I was about to get to. The hosts now are always trying to bitify that; it’s more of a practical thing to keep the show moving. Don’t try to put a hat on top of a hat by making it a comedic moment too. We’ve never really played with that trope, even though we could, and maybe should. For now, my attitude towards play-off music is, these people might not ever be on this stage again.

How soon do you start planning the next one?

Rogers: Hopefully, they give us the green light.

Ana Gasteyer, left, Jamie Lee Curtis and Patti Harrison at the 2025 Las Culturistas Culture Awards.

(Jordan Strauss / Bravo)

How did you go about deciding which categories would return this year and which you invent along the way?

Yang: We did an audit this year of all the categories from the last few years of doing this.

Rogers: Less made it back last year.

Yang: I think maybe about 30 max previous categories [returned] — that’s a decent ratio, 70-30 is nice. From there, we just kind of molded the clay on the table a little bit. We have the benefit of making this a recursive reinvented show every year; the categories itself are the premise, it’s the micro-premise within the segment or the element. The jokes are the nominees. Why not create new opportunities at every turn.

“Las Culturistas” expanded into a video podcast last year. How do you feel about this evolution we’re seeing to the format?

Rogers: It’s not that when I’m on camera with Bowen doing the podcast, like, “Oh, I wish I could be more relaxed,” I just wish the whole industry hadn’t gone this way because I feel like when you’re on camera, you can’t help but be a little bit more self-conscious, and that is going to come through in the podcast product. If I had my druthers, none of them would be on film. I can understand that it helps a lot and I can note a marked difference in the amount of times I get recognized now that we are on social media. It absolutely “helped” our podcast get bigger. That being said, I don’t think it was a good thing for podcasting that they all became TV shows.

Yang: It changes the register and the tone by nature. You cannot help but be motivated by different things, by the appearance of it, by the presentation of it, beyond what it was, which is just radio, which is a really important American form.

As two people who grew up being connoisseurs of pop culture, what is it like to be on the other side of it, to feel the intensity of it — I’m talking about what happened with the Jasmine Crockett comments — to become part of the conversation? What lesson came from that?

Yang: We are experiencing something in an acute way that I think everyone is experiencing, which is we are seeing ourselves in the third person. Everyone is kind of modulating their behavior based on how they are appearing out of body. It’s the way we all move through the world now, which can be snapshot and projected very widely out into the world for whatever reason.

Rogers: When you’re talking candidly, you can never know what piece of what you’re saying is going to be the piece that gets scrutinized again and again and again and again by what feels like the entire internet. And if you did, you would, of course, be more specific, and you would be able to really clearly say why you are saying what you are saying. We have had learning experiences with that, and so what we can do going forward is be more clear about the things that we do believe and stand by. That is something that even 10 years in the game we are learning how to do.

Yang: And I think on a very large scale, what is going to happen is that we are all going to adjust for the fact that we have behaviorally changed because of this idea that we’re seeing ourselves in the third person constantly. For me, personally, I’ve had to wrestle with this idea after being on “SNL” for seven years and having to evaluate myself and having an audience evaluate me every week. I’ve changed behaviorally; I need to get over this fear of being seen. I need to get better about listening to my own voice.

Rogers: The internet is a very weird place and the thing is, it deliberately ignores nuance. It willfully tries to make something seem lowest common denominator, so that there can be a community based around that thing. And that is not good for the world. It’s not good for discourse. It’s not good for our politics. It’s really bad for our politics. Until we can all get on the same page about the ways in which we are willfully misunderstanding each other and calling it discourse, it won’t get better.

Yang: The misunderstandings are about people’s tones, and not necessarily about the things that people are pointing toward.