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The title of Violet Grohl’s debut album, “Be Sweet to Me,” started as an inside joke.

“‘Be Sweet to Me’ is a phrase that my best friend and I say to each other when we’re play-fighting,” says the rising singer. “It’s what we do to put an end to it. Like, ‘Oh, be sweet to me!’”

The phrase might also carry a double meaning, one Grohl is still parsing. At some point in the naming process, someone in her circle asked Grohl if she was making a plea. Remembering that moment, Grohl pauses to consider.

“I guess it can be seen as a pretext for the album. Just … be sweet,” she says. “But at the same time, it’s literally just what my best friend and I say to each other when we’re calling each other idiots.”

Intentional or not, no one could blame the 20-year-old for inserting an earnest request for audiences to proceed with kindness as she readies her debut album, which finally landed Friday.

The reasons are pretty self-explanatory: Grohl is the eldest child of modern rock icon Dave Grohl, the highly decorated founder and centerpiece of Foo Fighters and onetime drummer of Nirvana, and his wife, former model and TV producer Jordyn Blum. In an age of “nepo” accusations and internet dogpiles, it would be completely understandable for Grohl to feel anxious about her album’s reception.

But if she is, it doesn’t show. On a warm day in mid-May, Grohl appears relaxed and self-assured — but not arrogant — as she idles on a sofa in a cozy Studio City ADU owned by her publicist. Encased in a long, black sleeveless dress, she’s giving a mixture of off-duty rock star and summer goth. Her arms host an array of intricate tattoos; I spot a raven, a skull and a vintage lace fan. Next to her is a bulging Balenciaga mini bag, and a pair of oversized sunglasses on her head are perched atop a mop of jet black curls. The high contrast of her pale, makeup-less skin and swept back hair makes her round, gray-blue eyes appear even more pronounced.

“Everyone wants you to be an idealized version of … not even yourself, but of what they want you to be,” she says. “Sorry, that’s just not gonna happen with me.”

(Bella Newman)

Any time spent with her reveals that Grohl is the sort of person who is ultra-sensitive to the energy of places, people and even the long-deceased. In her free time, Grohl is an avid lover of anything paranormal. “The same time I got into horror movies, I started watching ‘Ghost Adventures’ on Travel Channel,” she says. “It totally sent me down this rabbit hole of the supernatural.”

When I ask if she’d ever made contact with any ghosts, Grohl nods emphatically before describing a trip to a hunting estate near the Scottish Highlands. “It is the most haunted place I’ve ever been in my whole life,” she says. “I walked into the house, and it was like a blast of cold air, chills everywhere. It’s this instinctual feeling of, I’m not alone here … I heard footsteps and disembodied voices, I saw shadows, I had crazy f–ing dreams. It’s so eye-opening, but it’s not evil or negative.”

Chilling films and Lynchian surrealism pervade the tracklist of “Be Sweet to Me,” which relies on symbolic lyricism to illustrate coming-of-age stories. From a sonic perspective, listeners will be thrilled to know that her debut does not just make for an entertaining listen — it’s a dedicated towpath to the very squealing heart of alternative rock, built by an artist who understands her music history on a granular level. Across a tight 11 tracks, “Be Sweet to Me” careens across late-’80s and ‘90s experimental genres, from ripping alt-rock on “Bug in the Cake” to hazy dream pop on “Mobile Star” to aggro Clinton-era alt metal on “Often Others,” and even a bit of chugging hardcore on “Cool Buzz.”

As many references as she brought to the recording process, led by producer Justin Raisen (a known collaborator of Charli XCX and Kim Gordon, who made the introduction), Grohl is not attempting to cosplay the grunge era. Instead of simply mirroring influences, she deftly puts her own spin on each arrangement with inventive, grabby arrangements, razor-sharp production and her versatile vocals, which can bellow like Courtney Love, murmur like PJ Harvey or turn ethereal like Elizabeth Fraser.

“Justin has a crew of musicians that he works with, and they’re all close friends of his,” Grohl explains of the album’s backing band, which Raisen assembled to mimic the Wrecking Crew, a loose collective of session players who appeared on some of the most beloved albums of the 1960s and ‘70s. “They’re the coolest, most talented, genuine music lovers, and seriously talented musicians … I’d never been in that kind of recording environment before. Everyone would throw out ideas or I would share a reference, and whatever it was about the song, [we’d ask] how we can build and make it a completely new, different thing.”

Growing up in Tarzana/Woodland Hills, Grohl says she’s been singing ever since she could speak. In a baby book, her mother wrote how Grohl, at 8 or 9 months, was “babbling and singing.” She took piano lessons with a teacher who taught her any Beatles song she wanted to learn. She later picked up the ukulele, and then a guitar. Now, it’s any piece of gear, from bass to drums to a lap dulcimer. “I just love messing around with different instruments and seeing all the different sounds I can make,” she says.

Grohl also had an ideal music-taste mentor in her father, who told his eldest all about Björk and acquiesced to playing Amy Winehouse’s “Rehab” on repeat. “I think I was 4 or 5, and I remember sitting in front of his computer, and he was talking about how she was from Iceland,” Grohl says of those days. “And I was like, ‘Oh, she’s the princess of Iceland. That was my idea of Björk from a young age. Björk’s ‘Hunter’ music video was a turning point for me.”

By adolescence, while on the road with the Foo Fighters, Grohl would make herself useful by assisting the band’s tour manager. She remembers: “I had a walkie-talkie, I would hand per diems out to people, I would run the envelopes around, and bring my dad a towel after the show, stuff like that.” The live-music atmosphere may have also sparked Grohl’s curiosity in songwriting, which she says began as a way of journaling. “I have cassette demos that I made with a tiny one-track recorder,” she remembers. “Then I started learning how to use Logic right before I turned 13, and that opened up this whole new world.”

One night in May 2018, on a break from the East Coast leg of the Foos’ Concrete and Gold tour, the elder Grohl headlined a benefit concert for the UCSF Benioff Children’s Hospital, where he encouraged his daughter, then only 12, to join him onstage to sing Adele’s “When We Were Young.” A few weeks later, back on tour, Grohl jumped onstage to help sing backup on a few tracks. “It wasn’t my first time singing on a stage, but it was my first time singing on a stage with that many people in [the audience],” she says of the second experience. “I was really scared, but once it was happening, and once it was over, I was like, ‘Oh, this is what I want to do. This is my purpose.’”

Chilling films and Lynchian surrealism pervade the tracklist of “Be Sweet to Me,” which relies on symbolic lyricism to illustrate coming-of-age stories.

(Bella Newman)

From there, Grohl became something of a live fixture — a beloved Foos adjunct performer. But clearly one with her own trajectory. In pre-pandemic 2020, Grohl joined the surviving members of Nirvana at the Art of Elysium Gala, where she sang “Heart-Shaped Box.” The next year, father and daughter recorded a duet of “Nausea” by L.A. classic punk favorites X. In 2022, Grohl opened the second tribute to late Foos drummer, Taylor Hawkins, with an aching rendition of Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah.”

It should definitely be said that Grohl is hardly pulling a Jakob Dylan as it relates to her parentage — a detail that actually makes her appear that much more self-actualized and approachable, simply because she isn’t trying to circumvent reality or engage in a furious round of name-dropping. She freely discusses the long evening car rides around Los Angeles she’d take with her dad and two younger sisters during the pandemic, the car becoming a music-recommendation feedback loop, with older and younger generations trading off DJ duties. “My sister and I introduced him to Jockstrap,” Grohl chuckles when I ask what bands she introduced her dad to during those rides. “I’d play him old jazz standards, hip-hop. It was a constant thing.”

During those evening rides, Grohl also drank up the city’s otherworldly, vaguely haunted visage. “There’s something special about L.A. that I can’t fully describe,” she says. “There’s inspiration everywhere, so many beautiful people and historic buildings. I love art about L.A. — when people reference L.A. in their music, movies, or books. I grew up here, and I’ve lived here my whole life. I just feel that deep connection to it all.”

Like any great artist, Grohl is a product of her surroundings, and that can’t help but include a very specific, unlikely upbringing. In her own matter-of-fact way, Grohl shrugs as she acknowledges the inescapable pressure of her last name. “Everyone wants you to be an idealized version of … not even yourself, but of what they want you to be,” she says. “Sorry, that’s just not gonna happen with me. You’re not gonna convince me to change. I’m doing this because I love music, and that’s all I’ve ever known. Everyone’s gonna want me to be something, and I’m not the person that will give in to that.”

This article contains spoilers for the series finale of “Hacks.”

After five seasons and (thus far) 12 Emmys, “Hacks” has come to an end. The story of how Deborah Vance (Jean Smart), a 70-something comedian of the Joan Rivers type, and Ava Daniels (Hannah Einbinder), a prickly 20-something comedy writer, came together to resurrect both their careers was a roller coaster ride of intergenerational judgment, wins, setbacks, ruthless behavior, personal growth, power reclamation and much general hilarity.

Deborah sees Ava as entitled and self-righteous, Ava sees Deborah as washed-up and boring. Eventually, of course, they realize they are kindred spirits who do their best work together.

In Season 5, Deborah attempts yet another comeback. Having walked off her late-night show rather than fire Ava in Season 4, she is determined to rewrite her premature obituary by playing Madison Square Garden. When that too is snatched away, she pivots (with much difficulty and hilarity, including a show-stopping monologue by Laurie Metcalf’s tour manager Weed) to Central Park, where she is finally allowed a moment of glory, basking in the adulation of applauding thousands.

But that is not the end of “Hacks.” In the final episode, Deborah reveals she has cancer and rather than undergo treatment, she is choosing to “go out on top” with the aid of a Zurich clinic. She asks Ava to accompany her, after they take a girls trip to Paris. After an emotional meltdown, Ava agrees, hoping to persuade Deborah to change her mind. She does, but only after Deborah realizes that she cannot bear to walk away from the jokes she could write about dying. And so the show ends, with the two women walking arm in arm, first in Paris and then in Las Vegas, working on Deborah Vance’s final show.

Here, Times TV and culture critics Robert Lloyd and Mary McNamara discuss the ending, and legacy, of “Hacks.”

Deborah, left, decides she doesn’t want to get treatment for cancer despite Ava’s protests. Deborah changes her mind when she realizes she could write jokes about dying.

(HBO Max)

Mary McNamara: Hey there, Robert; are you as devastated as I am that we have no more “Hacks” to look forward to? The only solace I can find is the news that creators Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs and Jen Statsky are planning to release a DVD box set of the series. And the possibility that there could be a movie sequel — I for one want to see Deborah Vance’s death tour, especially since you know she’ll beat the odds and survive.

Seriously, though, sad as I am to contemplate life without “Hacks,” I am equally thrilled that the show so thoroughly stuck its landing. Finales are always a crap shoot and I appreciated how this season managed to show growth and cosmic justice while never tipping into treacle. I love that everyone ended on a win — including Marty! (Christopher McDonald) — and I didn’t even mind that suddenly Deborah had cancer (what?), was choosing assisted suicide (double what?) or that we were whisked to Paris (sure, I guess, why not?) because it made just enough narrative sense to set up Deborah’s decision to live because she just couldn’t leave good material on the table. “I may not have 30 years, but I do have one more hour,” may be the best line from a TV finale ever.

It is too easy to think of people like Deborah as clawing back their careers for fame, validation or money rather than a deep and essential love of their art. Having Deborah decide to prolong her life with chemo because she could not resist mining this final seam of comedic gold was a coup de grace.

What did you think?

Robert Lloyd: Hail, Mary. Reviewing the first-season finale, I wrote that the series was at heart a romantic comedy. And though many timely points were made along the way about artificial intelligence, the fate of late-night television and the awfulness of rich jerks who control media companies — Deborah’s Madison Square Garden show was undermined by the network head she named on national television in her resignation speech — the show asserted itself as a love story once again in the end. Where earlier seasons had depended on creating friction between Deborah and Ava, this one was mostly of concord, their only real clash being Deborah’s decision, introduced late in the season, to end her life (in a clean, posh way); her climactic change of heart spared us a medical tearjerker, but, believe me, I shed plenty of tears along the way. Unlike most seasons of “Hacks,” the fifth and final was orchestrated very much as a feel-good experience — “Ted Lasso” has nothing on it. A fairy tale, almost, as you point out, full of fairy-tale endings and plot points that were as good as magic. It could be contrived and improbable and old-fashioned in its triumphs snatched from the jaws of defeat, and I completely loved it.

Deborah Vance (Jean Smart) didn’t get the Madison Square Garden show she imagined, but she did get one at Central Park.

(HBO Max)

McNamara: The series had a lot to say about a lot of things (including vengeful power brokers/network executives) that feel particularly pointed now. But I deeply appreciated that while underlining the real obstacles Deborah and Ava faced, the writers showcased and explored how the bad choices each women had made, and defended, also contributed to their situations. Obviously having the great Jean Smart in the driver’s seat helped a lot — she revealed the woman beneath the diva even in Deborah’s most outrageous actions. The writers did not shy away from calling attention to the blatant sexism female comedians faced (and continue to face) or how the “woke” women of Ava’s generation are often able to see that kind of injustice more clearly.

It was, as you say, more rom-com than morality play, and rom-coms are often based on discovering that the differences that initially divide are too often based on, well, to put it in its original form, pride and prejudice. So while there was some hilarious and spot-on commentary about intergenerational miscommunication, there was also a clear message of how important it is for people with vastly different experiences to listen to, and learn from each other, which also feels incredibly important at this moment in time, especially given the show’s essential, and deeply human, respect for creative work. What motivated Deborah and Ava, and virtually every character in “Hacks” — agent Jimmy (Downs), his assistant Kayla (Megan Stalter) and later Randi (Robby Hoffman); Deborah’s staff, including Marcus (Carl Clemons Hopkins), Damien (Mark Indelicato) and Josefina (Rose Abdoo) — was a belief in the importance, and difficulty, of the creative process. It’s something that is rarely, if ever, the work of a single individual — as Deborah finally acknowledges at the opening of the Diva casino. Or as Laurie Metcalf’s Weed makes clear in her hilarious monologue before the Central Park gig.

1

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1. Creativity isn’t the work of a single individual: Damien (Mark Indelicato), Marcus (Carl Clemons-Hopkins) and Deborah (Jean Smart) at work on the casino. (HBO Max) 2. Deborah’s crew at her Central Park show. (HBO Max)

Lloyd: In a way Deborah’s speech summed up what we’d already been seeing through an especially generous season that served as “Hacks’” tribute to itself and its people. It was a party to which most every significant and many minor characters were invited, including Metcalf and McDonald; Luenell as comedian Miss Loretta; Poppy Liu as Deborah’s personal blackjack dealer, Kiki; Jane Adams as Ava’s mother, Nina; J. Smith-Cameron as Deborah’s estranged sister, Kathy; and Kaitlin Olson as Deborah’s daughter, DJ, who finally got her mom to partner with her on “The Amazing Race” and was allowed to sell her detachable earrings on QVC.

Gifts were distributed widely, including a previously unseen interview with Deborah’s late husband and co-star, Frank (Peter Strauss), giving her credit for their success — credit he had previously accepted for himself — and thus removing a giant thorn that drove the early plot. These kind-hearted acts of closure were performed both for the benefit of these very real, made-up people, and for We the Viewers, who have made them our family. Declarations, or at least demonstrations of love, were abundant, not merely between Deborah and Ava, with the characters acting as our proxies, feeling what we want them to feel, and what we feel for them ourselves. (There are moments this year when Einbinder — whose brilliance Smart could seem to outshine, but who was never less than an equal partner — absolutely killed me, just in the tender way she gazed upon Deborah.) That’s why it’s so hard to let go of a show like this, even when we know it’s time to say goodbye. You can only stretch an arc so far before it breaks.

McNamara: You’re right, of course. But I still want to see the “Hacks” movie.

NEWARK, N.J. — New Jersey state police set up designated protest zones and vehicle checkpoints outside an immigration detention center in Newark on Friday, replacing federal immigration enforcement agents who have been clashing with protesters for days.

Gov. Mikie Sherrill said she sent in state police to bring order outside Delaney Hall as the demonstrations have intensified, with violence and arrests increasing as night falls.

“It has grown unsafe, and that’s completely unacceptable,” the Democratic governor said at a news conference announcing the new measures. “We need to take this opportunity to lower the temperature.”

As police erected protest barriers, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents who had formed a line in front of protesters moved inside the building’s perimeter fence.

New Jersey State Police Lt. Col. David Sierotowicz said ICE officers agreed to stand down with state police assuming responsibility.

Demonstrators had mixed reactions. Some staged a sit-in and refused to move into one of the new protest areas police set up using metal barriers and concrete blocks.

Rachel Cohen worried that demonstrators exercising their 1st Amendment rights were being silenced.

“It is not helpful to quell protest for the sake of a false peace,” she said. “There is no peace while we are torturing our neighbors on [the] government dime inside this facility.”

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin, on social media, called the measures a “win for law and order” and noted that Sherrill had resisted sending state police for days.

The protests began a week earlier after immigrant advocates said detainees inside launched a hunger strike over poor living conditions at the 1,000-bed facility, which opened last May.

Demonstrators have been attempting to block people and vehicles from entering and exiting, linking their arms in a human chain and using trash cans, umbrellas and other items as makeshift shields and barricades.

ICE officers wearing helmets and tactical vests have used pepper spray and batons to try to disperse the protesters and clear the roadway for vehicles.

At least six demonstrators were arrested and accused of assaulting law enforcement officers Wednesday night, and more have been arrested on other nights, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

Acting U.S. Atty. Gen. Todd Blanche shared images online Friday of bloody wounds and bruises sustained by ICE officers.

“These riots are clearly not ‘peaceful protests’ as you can see from the photos of these horrific wounds,” he said. “Assault a federal officer, you’ll be held accountable.”

Another demonstrator, Lisa O’Dwyer, said she was fine with the designated protest areas.

“I like to get my point across and stay safe at the same time,” the Westfield resident said.

Eyesha Marable, pastor at Mt. Zion AME Church in Millburn, agreed, even while acknowledging that there were “different schools of thought” among protesters.

“There are people here who are angry. Their family members are inside. Their friends are inside. People have been taken off the streets, out of their communities,” she said.

“We have to keep the peace,” Marable said. “The goal is to get our people free, to get them liberated, and we cannot do that if we’re fighting out here.”

State Atty. Gen. Jennifer Davenport said it was important to “de-escalate” the situation as “violence, either against protesters or by protesters, is unacceptable.”

Sherrill said she did not want to give ICE a pretext to expand operations in the state, noting that federal immigration officers around the country have killed and injured protesters in recent months.

“We all need to do everything we can to cool things down now,” she said.

The governor and other Democratic officials tried to visit detainees Monday but were denied entry.

Democratic members of Congress from New York City, however, were able to tour Delaney Hall the day after that. They reported dire conditions, with detainees being fed small portions of often spoiled food and their varied medical needs going ignored.

Families and supporters of detainees also say their loved ones have also been subjected to pepper spray and physical force in retaliation for their hunger strike and the protests outside.

Marcelo and Shaffrey write for the Associated Press and reported from New York and Newark, respectively.

A Palestinian doctor has been killed and three people injured in an Israeli attack in central Gaza, as Israeli settlers attacked Palestinian homes and property in northern and southern parts of the occupied West Bank.

The attacks across Palestine on Saturday, the fourth day of the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha, came amid continued Israeli violations of a United States-backed “ceasefire” implemented in October aimed at halting Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza.

Dr Jamal Abu Aboun, the head of anaesthesia at Al-Yafa Medical Hospital in central Gaza’s Deir al-Balah, was killed in an Israeli strike near the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, also in Deir al-Balah on Saturday.

“The body of Jamal Abu Aoun and three injured people, including a child, had arrived at the hospital following an Israeli drone strike that targeted a group of civilians near the hospital,” a medical source at Al-Aqsa hospital told the Anadolu news agency.

Earlier, Israeli artillery shelling targeted areas east and south of Khan Younis city in southern Gaza. Another artillery strike targeted al-Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza.

At least 922 Palestinians have been killed and 2,786 others injured in Israeli attacks since the October “ceasefire”, according to the Gaza Media Office.

Israel launched its genocidal war on Gaza in October 2023, killing at least 72,000 Palestinians and injuring over 172,000 others, according to Palestinian figures.

In testimonies to The Associated Press news agency, Israeli soldiers described a climate of dehumanisation, permissive rules of engagement and the routine killing of Palestinians during the “ceasefire”.

Reservists who served in Gaza between last October and January said Israeli troops frequently opened fire on Palestinians approaching or crossing the so-called “Yellow Line”, an often poorly marked boundary separating Israeli-occupied areas from the rest of the enclave.

One soldier said that fellow troops celebrated after a strike on a vehicle carrying Palestinians killed everyone inside. “It was a jungle,” the soldier told AP. “After the ceasefire, the order was: If someone crosses the line, you shoot them.”

Another reservist said commanders repeatedly emphasised holding territory at all costs. “There was a general feeling that human lives are not valuable,” he said.

Settler attacks in occupied West Bank

Elsewhere in occupied Palestine, Israeli settlers attacked several homes early on Saturday in the town of Beita, south of the city of Nablus in the northern West Bank, according to Palestinian news agency, Wafa.

They threw stones at houses and smashed several vehicles, Wafa reported.

State-run Voice of Palestine radio reported Israeli forces firing light bombs into the sky over the town.

In the southern West Bank, settlers attacked Palestinian farmland and damaged several trees in Khirbet el-Muraq in Masafer Yatta, activist Osama Makhamra, who follows Israeli violations south of Hebron, told reporters.

Israeli settlers carried out at least 540 attacks in April against Palestinians and their property in the occupied West Bank, including Jerusalem, according to a monthly report by the Palestinian state-run Wall and Settlement Resistance Commission.

The attacks ranged from “direct physical violence, uprooting trees, burning fields, preventing farmers from accessing their land, seizing property, as well as demolishing homes and agricultural structures”.

Israeli army raids, arrests and settler attacks have intensified across the West Bank since the start of the genocidal war in Gaza.

According to Palestinian figures, Israeli forces and settlers have killed 1,168 Palestinians, injured 12,666, displaced about 33,000, and detained nearly 23,000 in the West Bank since October 2023.

WE ALL know holidays are expensive, and costs can rack up faster than a flight from Southend to Newquay.

So, as a seasoned travel journalist, it really pains me to see holidaymakers shelling out over the odds, and unnecessarily so, on their once-a-year summer break.

By all means, this holiday is your time to celebrate. Have a 6am pint in the airport ‘Spoons (sorry to Ryanair boss, Michael O’Leary, but I disagree with banning pre-flight beers) and sure, treat yourself to that pair of sandals you’ve been eyeing up in Duty Free.

But why are you still wasting your hard-earned cash on an aeroplane lunch?

I just can’t fathom it. And it’s not because I’m a food snob. 

The other week on an easyJet flight back from Greece, the young lad next to me was practically jumping out of his seat in anticipation of the trolley to edge our way.

I thought he was gagging for a drink, but it turns out he was after the cheeseburger (who knew easyJet even sold cheeseburgers?).

But sadly, this lad never got his gnashers on that beef patty as they’d sold out already.

“Ugh, I’d been looking forward to that all day,” he muttered to his partner.

I raised an eyebrow. What had the breakfast buffet been like at his hotel if he’d been craving this floppy-looking easyJet cheeseburger “ALL day”? 

He wasn’t the only one in an ordering frenzy during this flight, either.

Looking around me, I’d say at least half – if not more – of the passengers had ordered their lunch on board, along with drinks and snacks.

This wasn’t entirely a shock to me. On another short-haul flight I took earlier this year, the plane food had proved equally popular.

And although there aren’t any hard stats to back this up, colleagues have said they’ve experienced the same; it seems Brits really love their on-board grub.

Selfishly, I was a little relieved that my neighbour didn’t get his burger, as I’m not sure I fancied inhaling the stench of microwaved meat for the final few moments of my journey.

I mean no disrespect to easyJet, either.

Other airlines I’ve travelled on can’t rustle up a better lunch, even the pricier and fancier carriers.

That’s simply because they don’t have the equipment on board, nor the space to carry fresh ingredients.

There isn’t a chef up in the galley scorching tender steak on an open flame, because, well… health and safety.

It’s not necessarily the poor quality that I can’t stomach, though. It’s the extortionate price tag.

It would have cost the fella next to me £7.50 for the burger alone. No chips. No side salad. No drink.

And judging by the menu picture, it looked smaller than a bacon bap from Greggs.

I’m not saying you have to pre-make the entire family a set of sad sandwiches at home, but you can pick up some pretty decent bites at the airport these days.

Plus, these airport meals won’t cost you as much as the food on board the plane.

While matey next to me disappointedly tucked into his ham and cheddar toastie (a more reasonable £5.75) and his partner, the lasagne (£7.95), I was ripping open the paper to my huge spinach and feta-stuffed filo pastry. 

I’d picked up this local bite from a cafe in the airport, just after security, for under £4.50.

Said cafe had sandwiches, too, as well as crisps and snacks – all of which were cheaper and more generously sized than the on-board grub. 

And that was just at a teeny airport in Greece – at larger airports, you’re spoiled for choice.

If you’ve left a sensible amount of time to bag drop and get through security, then you’ll also have time to kill on the other side. Grabbing a meal is the perfect way to do that. 

To those who insist on eating while sitting on the plane, I say: just get a takeaway.

Sack off your aeroplane sarnie and pick up a Boots meal deal, which includes a sandwich or main meal, snack and a drink for less than the price of one sandwich on board.

At Heathrow airport, a Boots meal deal comes in at an inflated (but still more affordable than food on board) price of £5.50 – and the quality of what you’re getting really doesn’t differ that much.

Or if you really fancy a slap-up meal, a lot of airport Wetherspoons offer takeaway versions of their dishes, meaning you can order a sit-down meal just before boarding your flight.

You don’t need to leave things to chance, either.

Generally speaking, you can look up what restaurants and takeaway options there are in the airport before you arrive. 

It’s also well worth taking advantage of the Too Good To Go app that lets you collect a “surprise bag” of goodies from an airport cafe or restaurant. 

You’ll have to log in and buy the bag in advance, but it can save you a fair whack of cash.

For example, if I were flying from Heathrow this evening, I could pick up a mixed bag of pastries for just £2.69, a fraction of what they would normally cost.

Or if I were travelling from Gatwick tomorrow morning, I could pick up a brekkie bag from Pure cafe for a fiver, containing two to three items such as toasties, porridge and egg muffins.

That’s almost enough for the whole family.

Well, I gave him a chance, offering my services.

I was willing to give the young novice a primer on what a mayor can and can’t do, and let him know City Hall is a reality show like no other he’s been on. But Spencer Pratt didn’t call me in response to my column last week.

I did, however, hear from a slew of his most ardent supporters.

Steven C. had this to say: “You’re a left-wing idiot, and … it’s time for you to retire. You’re a joke!!! You always have been!!! God bless Spencer Pratt and the 45th and 47th President of the United States Donald Trump!!!!!”

You may be onto something, Steven!!! I’ve been thinking about retiring!!!! But then a former reality TV star like Pratt comes along and tells Vanity Fair he had a chat with God, who told him He wants Pratt to be mayor of L.A!!!!! With people like this running for office, how can I retire?!!!!!

R.W. wrote to say: “You say Spencer has never done anything in his life…What credentials do you have? From what I’ve read about you, you are a lousy commie journalist who has never accomplished anything in your life!!”

Just recently, R.W., I replaced a broken toilet tank flush valve and I learned two Willie Nelson songs on the guitar. That’s not nothing.

Peter did not mince words: “Your piece on Pratt is a hit piece filled with bull— . You should go f— yourself before someone takes you out, which is the appropriate response to a s—bag like yourself. So please f— off and drop dead, which is exactly what you deserve.”

Peter, I did drop dead once. Cardiac arrest. While on the other side, I saw God, who told me to snap out of it because He was going to tell Spencer Pratt to run for mayor. Who knew God had a defibrillator?

All of these, by the way, were actual emails, and there were many more just like them. But it’s only fair to note that despite the fulminating knucklehead wing of Pratt’s posse, he’s tapped into a justifiable sense of frustration with City Hall, given homelessness, the Palisades inferno and budget issues that squeeze all manner of basic city services.

That’s why Mayor Karen Bass is paddling furiously, trying to keep her political career afloat. In the latest UC Berkeley-L.A. Times poll, Bass is at 26%, Nithya Raman at 25% and Pratt at 22%. That’s so tight, it appears that no one will get the 50% needed to win outright, and if we get a top-two runoff, it’s not clear who will go to the dance.

So as we close out the primary, with the election on Tuesday, five talking points come to mind.

Which candidate knows the city best?

Los Angeles has 114 distinct neighborhoods spread across 470 square miles (that’s 10 times the size of San Francisco), with an estimated 220 languages spoken. Diversity is a defining characteristic, and roughly half the population is Latino, which makes it a shame there’s no Latino candidate for mayor, especially given the raids and roundups by President Trump.

A mayor doesn’t have to speak six languages and know every corner of the city, but residents want to be seen and heard, and feel like they’re understood and represented.

Raman is well-versed on homelessness policy, and she’s spot-on about the need for greater urgency in problem-solving, but as my colleague Noah Goldberg reported, constituents in her district complain that they haven’t seen enough of her.

As I said, Pratt has wisely targeted municipal failure. But in the realm of outsider candidates with Republican credentials, Rick Caruso, who ran against Bass last time, was comfortable whether he was in the Valley, South L.A. or anywhere in between. And he easily connected with people. Would Pratt be a tourist in his own city?

By virtue of her job the last four years, Bass — who raised a blended Black and Latino family — knows the city best, although her unfavorability rating is a big problem.

What about the other candidates?

In the aforementioned poll, minister and housing activist Rae Huang had 9% and former educational technology businessman Adam Miller had 5%. Virtual unknowns, neither had a legit chance of winning, but they could be spoilers for one of the top three candidates.

I spoke to both, and if you’re undecided, you should read up on them before voting. On Huang’s website, the first words are “Homes are for people, not profit.” Miller wants to bring his success in the business world to City Hall, and when you consider his policy agenda along with his nonprofit work with veterans and homelessness, he’s a better candidate than Pratt.

But he wasn’t on a reality TV show.

Democrats ruined L.A. and California, right?

If only I had a nickel for every time a reader suggested that.

By 101 measures, Los Angeles is one of the great cities of the world and California has built the world’s fourth-largest economy while leading on climate change, so apocalyptic diagnoses are a bit off the mark.

Also, local elections are nonpartisan. You don’t run for mayor as a D or an R.

And yet it’s true that Democrats and their policies and sensibilities rule the day, and they have a lot to answer for in Los Angeles and in California.

But would the same critics suggest that in conservative cities like Fresno and Bakersfield, which have their own homelessness and other problems, Republicans are to blame?

When it comes to housing, poverty, healthcare and streets occupied by people who are addicted or mentally ill, the failures go back decades, touch all levels of government, and cross party lines.

Have I given up on Los Angeles?

When I pointed out that Pratt seemed unaware of these complexities, and of the structural limits of mayoral power, readers suggested he was rising to the challenge while I was giving up on L.A.

Not at all. I care about L.A. enough to hold its leaders to a higher accountability, and to scrutinize posers and pretenders who think they can do a better job.

My advice for the next mayor.

Fix what’s broken, celebrate what works and take responsibility for what doesn’t.

Now let me try one more time:

Spencer, give me a call.

You can’t tell us you had a conversation with God about running for mayor and not share more details.

Did God scold you for referring to the mayor as Karen “Basura,” which means trash in Spanish?

Did He say we should pull out of the ‘28 Olympics, or have any advice on how to fill potholes and fix sidewalks?

If you’re having regular conversations about City Hall with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, we’re dying to know:

On homelessness, what would Jesus do?

steve.lopez@latimes.com

Spencer Pratt is a showboat, a loudmouth, a troll and a self-proclaimed villain who seems willing to say anything in his quest to be the next mayor of Los Angeles.

Little wonder that his critics rolled their eyes when the former reality television star told CNN host Elex Michaelson a few weeks ago that his campaign role model is Jesus Christ, because “he was a politician.” How on earth did Pratt — a man who tosses insults with the ease of someone spitting loogies — come off boasting that his political hero was the Prince of Peace?

But anyone who ridicules the exchange as a blasphemous moment by a deluded wannabe isn’t paying attention — which is exactly the error that has allowed Pratt to storm L.A. politics. He isn’t running on an explicitly Christian message — that would be risky in a city with large Jewish, Catholic and secular constituencies. But the proud born-again evangelical is channeling the zeal of an old-fashioned tent revival, even if some of his rhetoric falls far outside the bounds of the Good Book.

In his recent memoir, Pratt recounted his conversion — actor Stephen Baldwin baptized him in a river during the 2009 season of the reality show “I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here.” Before that, his Christianity had consisted of wearing a black diamond cross necklace he described as “thirty grand of Jesus bling” bought from a Beverly Hills boutique. Pratt credits his faith with providing direction at a low moment in his life, as he embraced Jesus with such fervor that a pastor told him to stop joining altar calls so much during church services — once was enough.

“I needed the receipt stamped weekly,” Pratt wrote, “like a parking validation, just to make sure it stuck.”

Seventeen years later, he’s still seeking that affirmation.

The memoir comes off as a millennial version of “The Confessions of St. Augustine” — perhaps the most famous literary example of someone who saw their wreck of a life not as a series of mistakes to apologize for but as necessary failures on the road to grace. That’s why Pratt and his followers don’t see his sketchy past as a disqualifier, but rather his biggest strength. Only someone who says he was reborn in the inferno of the Palisades fire could possess the clarity and willpower needed to bring salvation to an accursed land, they argue.

In another era, Pratt would have been a welcome edition to the roster of bombastic Southern California preachers a la Aimee Semple McPherson, Chuck Smith and Gene Scott, as well as radio titans such as George Putnam and John Kobylt. His claims that only he can deliver us from damnation and that we need to repent of City Hall’s status quo at the ballot box are nothing less than a modern-day gospel to his followers. Pratt feels the pulse of L.A.’s civic malaise far better than Mayor Karen Bass or another of his opponents, City Councilmember Nithya Raman. Like any good pastor, he knows how to distill that discontent into soundbites and stories.

That’s why the self-designated “Pratt Daddy” has cast this moment in L.A. history as a modern-day Armageddon, urging voters to wage war against apostates and usher in a Second Coming, lest the city continue its supposed descent into hell. He admits in his memoir to holding “epiphanies and apocalyptic visions” in equal measure — no wonder he told a Canadian podcaster in March that life for him is a “spiritual battlefield” where “however I can be to stop evil at this point feels like a purpose.”

Spencer Pratt is shown on a television while journalists work during the 2026 Los Angeles mayoral debate at Skirball Cultural Center on May 6.

(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)

Far from me to criticize someone’s faith. But I urge Pratt to reacquaint himself with the words of the messiah in whose path he professes to follow. Humility, frugality, turning the other cheek — it’s what Jesus taught and what Pratt has long rejected.

Nowhere does Pratt need more of refresher on Jesus’ lessons than when it comes to homeless people.

Instead of offering compassion or viable initiatives, Pratt consistently calls the unhoused “zombies,” “vagrants,” “drug addicts” and “bums,” with a particular fixation on the naked ones. He vowed to ABC 7 recently that he would push people off L.A.’s streets and onto federal land — like herding stray wildlife. The mayoral hopeful added that “scam homeless nonprofits” exacerbate homelessness, which must have been news to Scripture-based organizations such as the Los Angeles Catholic Worker, Union Rescue Mission and the Salvation Army, which have been trying to help homeless people since before Pratt was born.

Pratt also told ABC 7 reporter Josh Haskell that most of L.A.’s homeless are not locals.

“These people, when I unplug them … they’re all going to Seattle, where the mayor will welcome them,” Pratt proclaimed.

Jesus would not only roll out the welcome mat for homeless people — he would embrace them.

Spencer, what New Testament book says that your crude campaign against the most destitute among us is holy?

Christ never looked down on itinerants, famously saying, “The Son of man hath not where to lay his head.” In the Book of Mark, when Jesus sent his disciples out into the world, he told them to bring no food or money, because good people would take care of them.

“And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them,” Jesus said.

Christ did do some name calling, but his ire was directed at the powerful, the braggarts, the hypocrites — the Pratts of his time. The Nazarene saved his kindest words for the meek, the poor, the peacemakers — who are sorely lacking in Pratt’s caravan of disaffected liberals, Trumpers and the wealthy. Christ didn’t offer counsel to the comfortable but to outcasts — lepers, prostitutes, people possessed by demons or afflicted with disease — whose modern-day contemporaries live on our streets and whom Pratt World blames for all of L.A.’s ills.

Jesus especially embraced outsiders — the Canaanite woman he initially compared to a dog because she sought help for her daughter, the Samaritan lady at the well, the Roman centurion in the Book of Matthew of whom Jesus proclaimed, “I have not found so great faith” anywhere in Israel. Pratt would have rounded up all of them in donkey carts and dumped them in Babylon, if he had been around back then.

I understand how frustrating it is to see homeless encampments in neighborhoods and to deal with unhoused people who disrupt one’s day, as my wife does at her restaurant in Santa Ana. But whenever annoyance gets the better of me, I remember what Jesus told his followers: “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me,” warning that he would keep this in mind on Judgment Day.

Those who didn’t take his advice? “Depart from me, ye cursed,” Christ thundered, “into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”

Christianity — and good society — calls for us to look to our better angels, not to demonize others, as Pratt regularly does. He knows this too.

“When the whole world hates you,” Pratt wrote, “it’s comforting to think at least the big guy upstairs has your back, so long as you repent.”

But repentance means admitting you’ve done wrong. Instead, Pratt is doubling down on his anti-homelessness nastiness as more and more people join his crusade.

Let’s see how many Angelenos embrace this false prophet on election day.

The top candidates for California governor crisscrossed the state Friday, all venturing to friendly political territory to woo voters and undermine their rivals as the June 2 primary election fast approaches.

The top Republican in the race, former Fox News host Steve Hilton, spent the day railing against transgender athletes before a high school track event in the Central Valley, an event sure to appeal to his base of President Trump supporters.

The front-running Democrats, former Biden administration Cabinet member Xavier Becerra and billionaire environmentalist Tom Steyer, rallied one of their party’s most influential constituencies: union members.

While both stuck with mostly an upbeat message and reiterated promises to lift up Californians struggling to make ends meet, Steyer afterward accused Becerra of being “a corporate Democrat who’s taking money from all these big corporations” who “doesn’t want to change things.”

Steyer’s had good reason to go after Becerra.

A new poll from the UC Berkeley Institute of Governmental Studies and co-sponsored by the Los Angeles Times showed Becerra leading the race with 25% support from likely voters, followed by Hilton at 21% and Steyer within striking distance at 19%. The two candidates who finish in first and second place in the primary will advance to the November general election, leaving the third-place finisher on the sideline.

Though he told reporters Friday morning that “I don’t pay attention to polls,” Steyer was energetic at a Northern California campaign event, where he held a private meeting with leaders of a union representing long-term caregivers. In brief remarks at the offices of SEIU Local 2015, Steyer described the race as a choice between a billionaire champion of working people and the corporate-backed Becerra.

“Does California work for Californians or does California work for corporations? The corporations think it works for them. They want it to continue to work for them and they’re putting up tens of millions of dollars to make sure they continue to make record profits,” he told dozens of home-care workers, teachers, construction workers and nurses at the West Sacramento gathering.

Groups including PG&E, the California Assn. of Realtors and the California Chamber of Commerce have spent more than $34 million opposing Steyer’s candidacy. The former hedge fund manager has pledged to lower energy bills by breaking up large electric utility monopolies.

As a billionaire who has so far poured $216 million of his own money into his gubernatorial campaign, Steyer has faced skepticism from some left-wing and working-class voters. But he is endorsed by progressives, including Rep. Ro Khanna (D-San Jose), and unions including the California Nurses Assn. and both major teachers unions.

“I voted for Tom. I was looking for a change,” said Alvenia Scott, a union board member who works as an in-home caregiver to her disabled sister.

“He really has some good ideas,” she said, adding that she had more qualms about Steyer’s lack of government experience than his wealth. “He made his way in life, more power to him.”

Hundreds of miles south in the Inland Empire, Becerra pledged to be on the side of unions if he is elected governor and urged voters to turn in their ballots in what has so far been a remarkably low-turnout election.

“I am with you. When I become governor and I sit behind that desk, you’ll have a union man sitting at that desk,” Becerra told about 500 people at the United Food and Commercial Workers hall in Bloomington.

He asked the crowd if they had cast their ballots and noted that not everyone raised their hand.

“Less than one in five Californians have actually cast their vote so far. We got to get that number way, way up,” he said, arguing that the election is about “sending a message all across the country that California will be counted, that California cannot be neglected, and that California will not take a knee to anyone in Washington, D.C.”

Only 12% of the state’s registered voters have cast ballots as of Thursday evening, according to the election tracking firm Political Data Inc.

Community college counselor Diego Rodriguez, 32, said he decided to vote for Becerra in recent weeks after seeing the former U.S. Health and Human Services secretary’s momentum in the race and researching his record.

“Also just his story. As someone who works in higher education, and seeing how Xavier, being first-generation, has benefited from higher education, and how he advocates for higher education,” the Rialto resident said. “Additionally, today, him being here at a labor union and advocating for the working class and labor, I think, is very important.”

Rodriguez said he first started looking into Becerra after he was among the candidates excluded from a USC debate that was ultimately canceled.

“I think that people became aware of him more because of that,” Rodriguez said. “There was a lot of conversation online regarding that, but I think it allowed the spotlight to be brought onto him and it made people aware of his record.”

At a campaign stop in Clovis in the central part of the state, Hilton marveled that his campaign had spent only about $2 million in campaign advertising but was still polling above Steyer, according to the latest Berkeley IGS survey.

“We’re feeling confident,” said Hilton, standing in a suburban stretch of the city. Still, he warned that voters need to get out to support him and avoid a “complete disaster for California” of two Democrats advancing to the November election.

Hilton, who was endorsed by Trump in April, joined other politicians and leaders in Clovis in opposing trans athletes from competing at the 2026 CIF State Track & Field Championships.

The group met near where the championship events were scheduled to take place this weekend.

Asked why he was focusing on sports and gender in the final days of the race, Hilton said it’s “one of the main issues” that come up at town halls. If elected, he said he would seek to overturn the state’s 13-year-old law that allows students to participate in school activities and use facilities such as bathrooms based on their gender identity.

Hilton argues the law violates the state Constitution and will “suspend” it while he initiates legal proceedings to overturn it.

He also praised Spencer Pratt, a Republican and former reality TV star who is running for Los Angeles mayor, saying his candidacy has brought “excitement and energy” to the state’s primary election.

“For a long time in California, there’s been this sense that it’s all inevitable — there’s nothing you can do, Democrats run this place, just the way it is,” Hilton said. “I think that that’s changing. I think there’s this sense that something’s happening.”

MIAMI — The Trump administration has extended protections shielding about 11,000 Lebanese from deportation, allowing them to stay and work in the United States for another six months.

The decision, announced Thursday by the Department of Homeland Security, marked a rare reprieve for people protected by temporary measures that have been harshly criticized by Republicans. The extension comes amid ongoing fighting in southern Lebanon between Israeli troops and Hezbollah fighters.

The decision was automatic, meaning that the administration missed the deadline by which it was supposed to decide on whether to extend the measure called Temporary Protected Status for Lebanese people living in the U.S. who are covered by the program. By statute, the status automatically extends for six months if the department misses the deadline.

It was an unusual outcome for an administration that has canceled the protections that had covered people from 13 countries, including Venezuela, Haiti, Nicaragua and Syria from deportation.

TPS was created by Congress in 1990 to prevent deportations to countries suffering from natural disasters or civil strife, giving people authorization to work in increments of up to 18 months. More than 1 million immigrants from 17 countries were protected by TPS at the beginning of the Trump administration, after the Biden administration greatly expanded its use.

The program has been at the center of a controversy.

Republicans and critics of TPS argue that the program and its protections deviate from their original temporary intent, taking on a quasi-permanent character when extended. Its defenders assert that it is a fundamental humanitarian program that prevents vulnerable individuals from being forced to return to dangerous conditions.

The DHS notice said that former DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and current Secretary Markwayne Mullin, who has led the department for the last two months, “were unable to make an informed determination on Lebanon’s TPS designation.”

The extension allows existing beneficiaries to keep their protections through Nov. 27, “if they still meet the eligibility requirements for TPS,” according to the notice. The work permits that were already issued for Lebanese TPS holders will be valid until the same day.

This is the second time the Trump administration has automatically extended a TPS designation. The first happened nearly a year ago with South Sudan, but the protections were terminated in November 2025, after the six-month extension period.

There are dozens of lawsuits challenging the termination of TPS at federal courts in different states. The Supreme Court is set to make a decision on TPS that protected Haitians and Syrians during the summer, and the result is expected to have an impact on all the other cases.

Advocates welcomed the extension.

“Extending Temporary Protected Status means Lebanese nationals in the United States will not be forced back into dangerous conditions but allowed to stay and continue supporting their families and contributing to their local communities,” said Kelly Razzouk, vice president of policy and advocacy at the International Rescue Committee.

José Palma, national coordinator of the National TPS Alliance — an advocacy group that has fought in federal courts against the cancellation of TPS for several countries—welcomed the extension of protections for the Lebanese.

“But we need to find a permanent solution for all TPS beneficiaries,” he warned.

Salomon writes for the Associated Press. AP writer Rebecca Santana contributed to this report.

Anyone trying to avoid the payment may face much higher fees

Millions of people face the prospect of having to pay an extra £1,000 if they want to take a holiday abroad in 2026.

One in five people on NHS waiting lists plan to holiday abroad without travel insurance, according to a recent survey, risking falling ill overseas and incurring hefty healthcare fees. There are currently more than 7.1million adults waiting for consultant-led treatment – and a further 1.7million waiting for a diagnosis – with many unable to take out insurance policies due to the high cost.

Of the 95% who are on, or have been on, a waiting list in the last three years and refuse to miss their holiday, 15% have paid up to £1,000 extra to ensure they’re protected. Many insurers keep their premiums low by not covering existing medical conditions, meaning patients on waiting lists with potentially serious conditions will need to take out specialist cover.

Those waiting for a condition to be diagnosed will find it particularly difficult to find appropriate travel insurance – and one in four plan to holiday without the correct cover. One in 20 currently waiting to be seen by the NHS have found accessing specialist travel insurance so difficult, or so expensive, they haven’t holidayed abroad because of it.

The poll of 2,034 adults commissioned by Wellsoon from Practice Plus Group found adults with hernias are the most likely to holiday without the correct cover, followed by those with cancer. The hardest conditions to find insurance for are heart or blood pressure issues followed by musculoskeletal issues including arthritis, hip or knee pain, back pain, neck or shoulder pain.

A spokesperson for Practice Plus Group said: “It’s a story we hear regularly from people who have a health issue they want to be addressed before they go on holiday, but they’re on a waiting list. They’re worried about going away when they’re in limbo, potentially needing to seek medical help a long way from home and not knowing how much it might cost.

In April 2021, the Financial Conduct Authority introduced new requirements to help consumers with more serious pre-existing medical conditions (PEMCs) better navigate the travel insurance market. Firms that sell travel insurance are required to signpost consumers to one of two directories of specialist firms that provide this type of insurance – one of which is the MoneyHelper directory, provided by the Money and Pensions Service.

A spokesperson from the Money and Pensions Service, which provides a directory of specialist firms that offer travel insurance for pre-existing conditions, said: “If you have a pre-existing health condition you must disclose this to your insurer. Otherwise, when you come to make a claim, it could be rejected.

“Depending on your circumstances, you may be asked to complete a medical exam. This will allow insurance providers to tailor your travel insurance policy to cover your needs. Taking specialist medical travel insurance will give you peace of mind that your medical condition is covered in the event of a claim.

“Our MoneyHelper service provides contact details of companies which specialise in this.”

Cary Elwes may not have been born in Los Angeles, but it’s probably fair to consider the native Brit an honorary Angeleno. The “Princess Bride” star was born in and spent his formative years kicking around London; he moved to L.A. in 1990, on his brother’s recommendation. He met his wife, photographer Lisa Marie Kurbikoff, at a cookoff in Malibu about a year later and the two married in 2000. A daughter, Dominique, arrived in 2007.

In Sunday Funday, L.A. people give us a play-by-play of their ideal Sunday around town. Find ideas and inspiration on where to go, what to eat and how to enjoy life on the weekends.

Elwes has spent his years in California not just establishing his family life, but also further enmeshing himself in Hollywood. He’s appeared in everything from “Saw” to “Ella Enchanted,” and played a corrupt government agent in a couple of “Mission Impossible” movies. His latest role is as a former cop turned private detective in Peacock’s new crime thriller, “M.I.A.,” streaming now.

“I’ve been out here for quite a bit now and while [2025’s] fires were pretty devastating — changing a lot of the landscape and people’s lives in ways that none of us could have imagined — I’m hopeful,” Elwes says. “I feel like we’re going to build back stronger and better. Things can seem dark sometimes, but I still have a spark of hope in my heart.”

Here’s how Elwes would spend his perfect, hopeful Sunday in Los Angeles.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

10 a.m.: Coffee and a chat

We wake up around 10 a.m., which is kind of late for me. Then we’ll have our coffee. I tend to lean toward Gelson’s beans, which I find have a particular flavor I tend to like. I do like my coffee. It’s probably the only addiction I really have.

Anyway, after I finish up my coffee, I’ll typically ask my wife and daughter what they’d like to do for the day. My daughter is 19, and she’s terrific. I always tell my wife she’s the best production we’ll ever do together.

Noon: Leisurely lunch

My wife is very fond of this Italian restaurant in Woodland Hills called Casaléna. It’s right off Ventura Boulevard and it’s terrific. Even their salads are extraordinary. It’s fairly new, too, but it’s always booked out solid so you really have to make a reservation in advance. Luckily, my wife and daughter are organized, so if they want to go there, they’ll have planned ahead.

2 p.m.: Head to the movies

We like to go see movies at the Imax at Universal CityWalk. The quality of that theater is very, very good and seeing films on the biggest screen possible is important to us.

My wife and I went on a date to see “Michael” in Imax, which was sold out and it was phenomenal. Antoine Fuqua did a great job and our friend Colman [Domingo] was honestly transformative as Joe Jackson. And Jaafar Jackson, who’s Michael’s nephew, is remarkable. It’s an extraordinary film, but sold out with people cheering and dancing? That made it a phenomenon. People were interacting with the movie as it played and it was remarkable.

If we’re not interested in whatever’s playing at the time, we might go for a hike in Tapia Park. I grew up watching “MASH” as a kid and when I realized they filmed there, I thought “How blessed am I to be living just a few miles from where such an iconic series was made?”

It’s a really beautiful park too. If you take a long hike, you’ll see waterfalls and lots of wildlife. On a nice afternoon, taking the dog out there for a walk? You can’t beat it.

There’s so much rich history here. I remember going on the Universal Studio Tour for the first time when I visited L.A. as a kid. They had a thing where they’d pick a couple of tour guests and the guide would put you on camera in front of a blue screen and you’d reenact a scene from a movie. The tour also took you by the “Jaws” shark coming out of the water and through an old western town, and I found out years later that a director friend of mine had been making westerns there when I was a kid and I didn’t even know it.

That tour was fantastic. With parting the sea for “The Ten Commandments” and then the boulders coming down the hill during the rockslide? Absolutely magnificent.

5 p.m.: Pick a Getty, any Getty

Depending on what time our movie ends or if we just end up going for a walk instead, we might go over to the Getty Center. We love it there. Usually we’ll go in the afternoon — maybe we’ll have a late lunch up there — and sometimes we’ll go to the Getty Villa instead, which luckily survived the Palisades fire.

We just love being around art. We’ll walk through the entire collection, plus whatever exhibit they have on at the time. We’ll go to LACMA sometimes, too, or even the Academy Museum to see whatever new exhibits they have.

Culturally, we really try to keep busy. Sometimes we’ll want to sit at home and play Spite and Malice or watch a show on TV, but mostly I try to go out and encourage my family to do the same, especially because we live in such a wonderfully diverse, cultural city.

7 p.m.: Taco time

I always leave meal decisions up to the girls, and sometimes they like to go out and get tacos. We like the fish tacos at Escuela. It’s pretty close to Quentin Tarantino’s movie theater, the New Beverly Cinema, which we like to go to as well. I took my daughter to see “Jaws” there, in fact, which she loved.

9 p.m.: More movies

I’m trying to educate my daughter in the films and TV shows that I watched growing up. She’s taking a film history class in school. She wants to be an actor as well, so I want her to have an understanding of the history of film and history of performance, so I show her the great performances that inspired me as a kid and encourage her in that way.

When I grew up in England, we literally had two channels, both in black and white. Young people can’t quite wrap their heads around that now, but it really did make you pay attention because you had to be sitting in front of the television to catch a show or movie you wanted to watch.

I remember that the BBC, particularly on weekends, would have matinee screenings of movies. We actually had pretty good quality TV in England growing up, but they’d also heavily focus on British films from the ‘40s all the way through to the ‘60s so I got my education from that particular style of films, like the postwar films, ‘50s films, and the Ealing comedies. David Lean and Laurence Olivier, Ralph Richardson … a lot of the films they were in or directed really helped shape who I am today.

Alec Guinness and Peter Sellers had a very strong influence on me as a kid, too, so I really want to try to share with my daughter why these films meant so much to me.

10:30 p.m.: Books in bed

I’m not really a late-night person anymore. I used to be when I was a kid, but now, unless we’re out on a date, my wife and I are homebodies.

IF you’re searching for a place to cool off without the crowds this weekend, this lake has been described as a ‘secret oasis’.

Tucked away in Surrey is Divers Cove which not only has bright blue swimming waters, but lakeside sauna pods and a cafe.

Divers Cove is a 7.3-acre reservoir in Surrey and is described as a ‘haven for wild swimming’.

One visitor said: “It’s a fabulous place to go for a swim in natural and beautiful surroundings – it’s like a secret oasis in the middle of Surrey.”

Another added: “I really don’t want to say too much about Divers Cove, but this is because rather selfishly I want it kept a secret!”

Others described it as ‘gorgeous’ and the water as being ‘gin clear’.

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After a cold dip at Divers Cove, swimmers can warm up in one of the lakeside saunas, which is open on weekends.

The handcrafted pods aren’t far from the waters and can be booked from £11.99 per session.

During the winter season, there are ice barrels by the side for a chilly dip before warming up in the sauna.

The capacity of a sauna pod is eight people – but they can be booked for sole use too.

Also on the lakeside is a small cafe selling fresh pizzas, drinks and snacks.

While Divers Cove is popular for locals who have memberships, there is a ‘pay as you go’ option for visitors costing £11.99 which run from 9am to 6pm.

There are a few conditions of swimming at Divers Cove for safety – visitors will need to wear a wetsuit if the water temperature is under 16C.

You can check the temperature on the website before heading down for a swim.

And everyone entering the water must wear brightly coloured swim hats.

Swimmers can bring their own or hire these out at the venue.

For those keen to get into wild swimming, Divers Cove runs an ‘Introduction to Open Water Swimming Course’ as well as improvement sessions too.

The lake is an hour from central London – on public transport, the easiest way to get there is on the Thameslink to Redhill.

Then take a bus to Waterhouse Lane which is a short walk from the Divers Cove.

NEWARK, N.J. — Protesters clashed with armed federal immigration officers in front of a New Jersey detention center where advocates have demonstrated for days while asserting that people detained there are staging a hunger strike over poor living conditions.

Groups of demonstrators, many wearing gas masks and other face coverings, linked arms in a human chain in front of Delaney Hall in Newark on Wednesday night, videos and photos posted on social media show.

Some used trash cans, old mattresses, umbrellas and other materials as makeshift shields and barricades as they confronted U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers. Others attempted to block people and vehicles from entering and exiting the building or threw orange traffic cones and other objects in the direction of the ICE officers lined at the entry gate.

The group chanted, “You will hang!” and, “Every cop, every fed, shoot yourself in the head,” and other taunts at the officers, many of whom wore helmets and tactical vests.

The ICE officers used pepper spray to try to disperse the protesters, according to videos posted to social media. Some used their batons to beat and push back protesters as the officers attempted to clear the roadway for vehicles.

At least one truck driver got out of his vehicle to vent his frustration when some protesters tried to block vehicles driving on the road in front of the detention center. People detained inside could at times be seen waving to protesters from Delaney Hall’s windows.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE, said about six demonstrators were arrested for assaulting law enforcement officers.

“Assaulting and obstructing ICE law enforcement is a crime and felony,” the agency said in a statement. “Anyone who assaults law enforcement will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.”

On Thursday, demonstrators again returned to Delaney Hall.

New Jersey Gov. Mikie Sherrill also said state health department officials were “denied full access” to the facility for a health inspection. The Democrat said the officials were only allowed to inspect a limited part of the facility as she called on ICE to “de-escalate” the situation.

“As I’ve said repeatedly, refusing to provide full access raises serious questions about what ICE is trying to hide from public view,” Sherrill said in a statement that also repeated her calls to shut down the facility outright.

Earlier Wednesday, Democratic members of Congress from New York City toured the facility as part of an oversight visit. A private prison company runs the detention center, which sits along an industrial stretch of Newark Bay.

Reps. Jerry Nadler, Daniel Goldman and Adriano Espaillat, who all represent Manhattan, described dire conditions where people held in the facility are fed small portions of often spoiled food and their varied medical needs are ignored.

Homeland Security spokespersons have denied any hunger strike, abuse or poor conditions inside the center and dismissed criticism from opponents as political posturing.

In this week’s episode of The Envelope podcast, we kick off Emmy season with Carrie Preston, who plays an offbeat investigator in Robert and Michelle King’s “Columbo”-inspired comedy “Elsbeth.”

Kelvin Washington: Welcome back to The Envelope. I’m Kelvin Washington, alongside the usual suspects, Yvonne Villarreal, also Mark Olsen. It’s good to have you all here. Everybody doing well?

Mark Olsen: Yeah, I’m doing great.

Yvonne Villarreal: Good to see you.

Washington: Well, first of all, I didn’t get the green [wardrobe] memo. It’s OK. Leave me out.

Villarreal: I’m trying to blend in with the chair.

Olsen: That’s why you pop

Villarreal: You do pop.

Washington: Well, you took what I was going to say. You don’t blend in. You always stand out.

Villarreal: Thank you.

Washington: That’s true. All right, so we’re kicking off Emmy season in here. And there’s obviously a million different things to have seen. We’ll start it off with Yvonne — I’ll go to you. What have you seen? Give me a couple of things that stand out to you that you’re enjoying.

Villarreal: Look, I’m always gonna mention “The Pitt.” Season 2 really captivated me. Also, there’s “Pluribus.” Can never go wrong with Rhea Seehorn. Also, one that — surprisingly for me, just given the subject matter — I really enjoyed this season, is “The Testaments.” And I think it’s because of, you know, the young cast and feeling that sense of hope that these young teenage girls are gonna get us out of this. Those are my picks so far.

Washington: Did you say that we need that?

Villarreal: We do need that.

Washington: OK, I just wanted to make sure.

Villarreal: I won’t mention reality TV, because I know it makes Mark a little…

Washington: Let’s make him a little squirmy.

Olsen: Maybe one of these days, I’ll try!

Villarreal: “One of these days”?

Washington: Twenty-five years into it.

Villarreal: “Real Housewives of Rhode Island” is all I’m going to say. I’ll just leave it there.

Olsen: Rhode Island?

Villarreal: Rhode Island.

Washington: Mark, I’ll go to you next, but just to your point there, Yvonne, I haven’t seen much of it, but I did have some guests at the morning show that I anchor from “Love on the Spectrum.”

Villarreal: Oh yeah.

Washington: Folks love that show. I mean, when I tell you that we had a couple of the guests come in and they’re walking around, people were screaming, “Can I get their picture?” So you’re talking about reality TV, just that, that’s a big one there.

Villarreal: They’re stars. And hearing who’s broken up already. I won’t spoil it, because you should watch that one.

Olsen: Wait a minute, how do people on your morning show rate “The Morning Show”?

Washington: Oh, that’s a good question. Some of the [story] lines or the feel hits a little too real, too close to home at times, that’s for sure. But I think it’s run its course a little bit as far as the watercooler [chatter] around the job a little. You know, it’s had some seasons here. But there are some things that, you know, some us look at each other like, “Clearly someone in the business is on there writing that show because that was too close to home.”

Villarreal: Lots of conniving.

Washington: But that’s all sensationalized. We’re just an ordinary morning show. None of that going on.

Villarreal: There’s no Billy Crudups out there.

Washington: Watch how I turn over here to Mark and we switch subjects. What about you, Mark? What are you watching? What do you enjoy?

Olsen: You know, it’s funny, I find as we’re in sort of like post-peak TV, I definitely find that I’m liking my TV to just feel like TV. And so I definitely like the Bill Lawrence universe, [that] kind of comfort watch — the new show “Rooster” with Steve Carell and Danielle Deadwyler, who’s just like so charming, so good on that show. I have really grown to like that show. I really enjoy the week-to-week. Even as I’ve maybe fallen off with some of his other shows, it’s funny how he’s always giving you a new show, like, “Oh I like this one!” And again [with] the week-to-week, “Oh it’s my day to watch ‘Your Friends and Neighbors’! Let me see what my good friends Jon Hamm and Olivia Munn are all up to.”

Washington: Are your neighbors like that?

Olsen: I have not had any disputes over dogs with my neighbors, no.

Washington: By the way, have you been, you mentioned Steve Carell, like he’s in his ‘zaddy’ era. It’s amazing what a beard does for a lot of people. No one ever necessarily thought of him as a heartthrob and all of a sudden I’ve heard, I’ve seen some things on Threads or whatnot, and they’re like, “Oh girl, I didn’t know Steve Carell…”

Villarreal: Some of us have known all along, OK?

Washington: I digress.

You guys mentioned a couple for me. “The Pitt” is unexpected — I was going to say every episode, really every 10 minutes. So that’s always a wild ride. And in “Paradise,” the shift from the previous season for me, because, you know, it’s not that I’m spoiling it, but just the shift into the outside and prior to, that dynamic to me was interesting. Almost like two different shows between Season 1 and Season 2. That for me is interesting to see how folks do and Sterling K. Brown, where’s he in all of this? So those are the ones that I’m looking at there.

I swing to you, [Yvonne]. You had a chance to speak with Carrie Preston, of course, in “Elsbeth.” Kind of a “Columbo”-style of a show, if you will. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Villarreal: This is the thing. We should never discount what’s happening on broadcast TV.

Washington: Good point.

Villarreal: “Elsbeth” is one of those shows that is so compelling. It really expanded, Robert and Michelle King’s “Good Wife” universe. They’ve had the spin-off, “The Good Fight,” and “Elsbeth” is in that universe, but it feels totally different. It’s this comedy procedural that follows Elsbeth, who we were introduced to as this eccentric lawyer, and in “Elsbeth” she’s moved from Chicago to New York as this NYPD consultant and de facto detective. And she has these really unconventional, unorthodox, eccentric methods to solving cases. And it’s really fun to watch and it was really fun to have this conversation with her.

Washington: All right, well, let’s get into it. Here’s Yvonne and Carrie now.

Carrie Preston, star of CBS’ “Columbo”-esque hit “Elsbeth.”

(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)

Yvonne Villarreal: I’m always very eager to talk about this character that I’ve spent 15 years tracking. You made your debut as Elsbeth Tascioni in “The Good Wife,” and she leaves a memorable impression early on, with just three minutes [of screen time]. I did time it. What do you remember about the call about this character and what [creators Robert and Michelle King] told you about who she was?

Carrie Preston: They had offered me the role, and I was working on some other things and I had just dyed my hair red, but they didn’t know this yet. And so they all knew me as a blond and I thought, “Oh my gosh, I hope they’re going to be OK with this character being a redhead because in their minds I’m not that.”

But [Robert] called and he said, “We’re thinking about this character like a female Columbo.” I didn’t really watch a lot of “Columbo,” but I understood what he meant, which was, this is a person who is going to be coming at things in an unexpected and unorthodox way and people are going to underestimate her. I took that to heart. But nonetheless, I was going in as a guest. As a guest, you’re going into somebody else’s house, you wanna follow their rules, you don’t wanna jump in their pool and start swimming around without asking permission. So I was a little tentative with it, but I took myself to the set before we started shooting just to show them, “This is what I look like now, are we still good? Because I can’t change the hair right now ’cause I’m doing this other thing.” Luckily, they were like, “Oh I think that actually works really well for the character.” And little did I know, I was gonna then be the redheaded actor for a good 16 years now, or whatever it is. I look back at that time, I was just finding my way with this character and figuring out, “How can I make her something different but not too different that I don’t fit in with the world of the show and the landscape of that universe?” And so looking back, you can see how I was tiptoeing around and it took a little moment before they really let me just let what my instincts were telling me to do, fly.

Villarreal: Because you knew she would be coming back in some capacity.

Preston: I didn’t know. I did two episodes at the end of their first season. Did not get a call at all in Season 2. And I thought, “OK, well, I guess I was a little too weird or I wasn’t really what they were thinking.” You kind of start talking to yourself and then you go, “I can’t read their minds. I’m just gonna keep doing what I’m doing.” And that was a really fun time. Then they called in Season 3 and that was when they said, “OK, we’re gonna do a little arc; we want this to flesh this character out.”

Villarreal: She went on to appear in many episodes of “The Good Wife” and also [its spin-off] “The Good Fight.” Then they have the idea during the pandemic of, “We want to do a show centered around Elsbeth.” And I imagine that’s a thrilling call to get, just like that first call that you received. As an actor in this sort of fickle industry, where you’ve put in the time, when you get a call like that from these prolific TV producers that are really respected, and they say, “We see you as being able to lead a network series.” How do you wrap your brain around that?

Preston: It was kind of a slow buildup to that because even when I was doing “The Good Wife, “ at the end of that series they were talking about, “How can we spin off the show?” And some people like yourself and people who are in the industry, fans, et cetera, were saying, “Why don’t you spin it off with Elsbeth Tascioni?” And Robert King reached out and said, “Would you be interested in this?” And so I said, “Of course, I would do anything to be be doing that.” Then I heard they’re doing this spin-off and it’s starring Christine Baranski and Rose Leslie and Cush Jumbo — pretty much everybody but me. And I was like, “OK, well, I guess that’s what they’re gonna do.” But I did reach out again and said, “I’d love to be a part of this.” And they said, “Yes, we’re definitely gonna bring you on and have you continue as a guest.” I went and did other things. I did “Claws.” I had already been working on “True Blood.” So I was doing all these other shows and thinking, “OK, I guess this is their spin-off. I’ll just be a guest again, and that’ll be that.”

And again, people would keep calling and saying, “Hey, what if you did a spin-off of the spin-off?” And still I dared not dream. It really wasn’t until 2020 that it felt like it was more plausible, possible. They were coming to the end of “The Good Fight.” They had this idea. And it seemed like a good one, and it seemed like a good business model, frankly, to have Elsbeth Tascioni, maybe one or two other series regulars, and then bring in all these amazing guests. It still took another three years before we actually did a pilot that, then, got picked up. So it was just these many, many steps before we actually got to this. So each time, I tried not to hold on to that dream too much, but at the same time, treasure every moment, even treasuring just the thought that they pitched me as the center of a show to a network that hired them to write a script. Even that, I was like, “Wow, this is incredible.” When we finished the pilot, I looked at the crew and I said, “We need to really honor this moment because this might be it. This might be the last time [I’m] ever playing this character. And we came together, and we made something really special. Whether or not it’s going to go to series, we all know we did something really wonderful.” And I burst into tears. I was so grateful for that opportunity. So every moment is a moment of gratitude and humility, to be honest.

Villarreal: Was there any part of you that thought, “I don’t know if I can do this”? Or because you were reaching for it for that length of time, when it finally happened, you’re like, “I can do this.”

Preston: There is this sense of wanting to make sure that I am doing everything I can to make this situation collaborative, to lead in a way that is not overbearing, to be a part of an ensemble, not just with the cast but with the crew. All of these things that I’ve been meditating on for decades. And I direct as well, so I know what it’s like to lead, and I’ve learned from watching really great leads, and not-so-great ones that get caught up in certain things, that rob them of an opportunity of creating something in a collective way. So I was excited to take all of these things that I’ve learned along the way and funnel them and channel them into this opportunity. Every day is a blessing, every day is challenge, and every day I feel like I do something that I know I can do better the next day. I try to meditate on that, because I want this opportunity that I’m having to be as special for the 300 people that are around me who are doing this with me. That’s really my goal.

Villarreal: In the series, obviously, we’ve come to know Elsbeth as this Chicago lawyer; here she’s a New York City police consultant. I really want to know what Elsbeth would be like in Los Angeles. What do you think that looks like?

Preston: Elsbeth finds beauty wherever she goes. I think it would be tough for her because she so likes to be right in the middle of all of humanity and [in] L.A., you’re isolated a lot in your cars — having to kind of keep yourself sequestered from other people just because that’s how people get around. I bet she’d be on the subway, she’d be on transit, she’d be on buses, she‘d be out in the malls, she would be out on the beaches, meeting people, talking to people, learning about Venice Beach as compared to Sherman Oaks. She would be all about finding all the different vibes and how she fits in.

Villarreal: You’re known for being a scene-stealer supporting player. This role in particular sort of encapsulates that. Is playing a lead rather than a supporting player a particular kind of challenge? Do you have to learn how to have your character take up space differently?

Preston: I approach it the same way that I approach anything I do as a co-star, a supporting actor, a guest star, whatever. I’m there to serve the script and to work with the people who are around me to elevate a scene and make it work. And to make the the job of everyone around me easy. I really feel like when you come at it with that collaborative spirit, you don’t think about, “Oh, I’m the lead.” You don’t think about where you fall into that hierarchy. You’re just there to make the scene work. And I like that. Because then I don’t feel pressure to be something more than what that is. You’re building a house every day, and you’ve got to start with foundation and then move all the way up. You can’t just come in and the house is already built. That takes more than one person. And I like that, and I feel like Elsbeth is like that too. She’s very much about the other person. For me, if you’re ever stuck in an acting scene and you don’t know what you’re doing, you need to just focus on the other person, and then all of that other stuff starts taking care of itself. What does this person need? What am I giving this person? What am trying to get from this person? Just all the like the basic building blocks of acting and then you can get out of your own head and let the choices happen.

Villarreal: Something that’s so striking about the character is her physicality. She sort of darts into frame, or she’s crouching, even the movement of her hands as she’s reenacting what might have happened. What was that like, finding the movement of Elsbeth?

Preston: It started from the beginning. The scripts, at the beginning, would write in these pauses. They would just say “pause” in the middle of a sentence. And I was like, “Huh, what is that?” That became the most fascinating thing to me. “What’s happening there? What’s happening with this woman when she’s not speaking?” And, so, that’s where the physical stuff started coming. And in “The Good Wife” and “The Good Fight,” there was a little bit of an evolution of that. The tote bags were brought in very early on by Brooke Kennedy, who was the producing director and one of the main directors on “The Good Wife.” She said, “I want her to always have something going on.” And I was like, “Great, I love that.” That’s a gift for an actor. I’m someone who, if you give me a prop, I’m gonna do something with it. I just like that. It’s fun. I’ve trained for the theater. So I love that idea. There’s a term that sometimes we use — I don’t know if it’s OK to say it — but sometimes we call each other “props-titutes.” If you get a prop, you can’t help it; you’re gonna have to do a thing with a thing. And so the bags and all that stuff — I started thinking, “Oh, I guess [with] this woman, her mouth is saying one thing, her mind is thinking another and her body’s doing a third thing.” As soon as I came up with that little weird math equation, things started locking into place.

Robert King directed the pilot. He created the show with Michelle King. Robert loves any kind of physical comedy. Marx Brothers, Three Stooges, Lucille Ball, all of that stuff. He just loves it. He worships that stuff. We were doing a scene and he said, “I don’t want you to just walk up. Let’s have you like lean in like Charlie Chaplin or something.” And I was like, “Great!” So he had me lean into frame and wouldn’t you know, that just became then the signature thing for this new iteration of this character. And it became kind of a metaphor for the whole show. This woman is not ever gonna approach things straight. She’s always gonna approach things at an angle. That’s another fun, creative thing that you can run with. Then the writers and the directors and the other actors, we all just started playing with that. And I have to do these scenes where I sum up the entire crime. Sometimes it’s like a five-page monologue. Well, you don’t have that much time to memorize that stuff because you get the script and I’m learning 50 pages of dialogue every eight or 10 days. So the physicality helps me remember it. And I imagine it helps Elsbeth piece it together.

Villarreal: Are you like at home just [mimics exaggerated movements]?

Preston: Yes, I’m coming up with things.

Villarreal: Is Michael [Emerson, the actor], your husband, like, “What’s going on here?”

Preston: He lets me do my thing. What I’ll say to him is, “I’m gonna go close the door and talk to myself for a while.” And he’ll go, “OK.” I learn my lines by myself. I record my own cue lines. It all has to happen alone. Because I know I have to go back over and over and over again. And when somebody is running lines with me, I’m very concerned about how bored they must be. So I just have to do all that on my own. The funny thing is I learn my lines a lot when I’m on the train. I go back and forth between New York City and the Hudson Valley a lot. It’s like an hour and 20 minutes. So the people on those trains are seeing this crazy lady, because I’ve got my ear things in and I’m looking at my [script].

Villarreal: Do you have your own bags?

Preston: I’ve go my own bags, and I am sure if they don’t recognize me as Elsbeth, they just think I’m another insane person who lives in New York City and no one cares. The kooky redheaded lady on the train.

Villarreal: Let’s talk about that other element that’s so crucial to Elsbeth, which is the hair and the wardrobe. You talked earlier about how you dyed your hair for another role, and you didn’t know you’d be locked in for this long with it, but it’s such a feature of her. Obviously we’ve seen her wear wigs in the show.

Preston: Which was fun, to go back to my original blond look.

Villarreal: And you mentioned Lucy earlier, Elsbeth in the tutu this season was so, so good —

Preston: One of the best compliments that Jon Tolins, our showrunner, ever gave me was when he saw the dailies from that day of the tutu and dancing with the little 6-year-olds. Oh, my God, I was in heaven. He just wrote, “Lucy level.” And I was like [playfully belts a note], “This is a dream.” Because I decided this woman would really want to be trying to do her absolute best. She would really be wanting to try to dance the best way that she knew how, but her body doesn’t know how to do that. But her mind wants to. Plus, I like to entertain the crew. They often don’t laugh because the crew has seen everything and they’ve seen me do a million things. But if I can get them to laugh, that’s a win.

Villarreal: Her style is so intriguing — sometimes I’m like, this is what “And Just Like That” should have had, some of these wardrobe pieces.

Preston: Well, that’s Dan Lawson, our costume designer.

Villarreal: What does that do for you? And please tell me there is a bag closet. I’m obsessed with the bags.

Preston: Oh yes. If you were to walk into the costume shop and see my section, it’s like a circus had a party under a rainbow. There’s four or five racks of clothes, and they go on what seems like a mile. And then there’s [a] whole wall of the totes. And Dan finds special totes that he’ll shop for, but then he also has some of the totes made because he wants them — we decided early on it would be totes, of course, but like after the opera episode, she would then have an opera tote. We had to make very specific totes that would do callbacks to previous cases and things like that. Dan thinks about everything.

Villarreal: Do they put things in the totes?

Preston: They do, but early on there were a lot of things in the totes, and I was starting to have to go to physical therapy because people don’t understand when you’re working on a scene, it takes six hours to shoot a scene, and if I’m coming running in with totes on my shoulders a hundred times it’s gonna take a toll on my body.

Villarreal: But you also need things in them so they don’t fall down easily.

Preston: Carol [McLennan], who’s my on-set costumer, she’s constantly putting top sticks so that they’ll stay. She’s finding creative ways to safety-pin them on. The continuity of the bags, you have to make sure that they’re exactly the way they were for every take. It’s like I have a child — three children, my totes.

Villarreal: Such a feature of the show is obviously the sort of revolving door of guest stars. This season you’ve had Stephen Colbert, Griffin Dunne, Beanie Feldstein and Patti LuPone, who was in the finale. Are you ever just lost in the fact that you’re acting opposite these people? Is there a moment that stands out from that?

Preston: Dianne Wiest. I’m a huge, lifelong fan of Dianne Wiest, like top five. And when I found out she was gonna be in the episode where she plays a nun, a murderous nun, I just thought, “I’m not gonna be able to contain myself.” I usually reach out to everybody before to send them an email or a text or something and just tell them how thrilled I am that they’ve said yes. So I wrote her a thank-you for saying yes/stalker-level fan email. And she wrote back. And she’s like, “Oh, Carrie, I’m so happy to hear that.” It was just like, “Oh, my God, I could just hear her voice.” When she showed up — I mean, she’s Dianne Wiest. And she is wearing a nun’s habit, and I couldn’t stop staring at her face. She would catch me staring at her and then she would just smile, with that sweet gorgeous face of hers and I would say, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I know that it’s probably making you uncomfortable. I just am absolutely honored. I do not even understand how I got to be so lucky to have someone like you doing this.” And you could say that for every single person on the show. I fangirl on them in the way that the character fangirls on Diane Lockhart. You know what I mean? The same little spirit lives inside me that is Elsbeth. I have wonder and appreciation. And it’s become more infectious. She has become more infectious the more I play her.

Villarreal: There was the moment where, in the Griffin Dunne episode, where he’s threatening towards her. I’m trying to remember if there’s been a moment like that where I felt threatened for your character. What was that like filming with him?

Preston: It was wonderful. Robin Givens, who was our director, [and] who, as we know, is an actor as well, she was really directing us to reach a pretty scary place. I like it when our show gets scary like that because we have to remember that she’s hanging out one-on-one with murderers. She’s going into their space. And as unthreatening as she is, that in and of itself is threatening. And we need to remind the audience of that from time to time. She pushes buttons because she’s trying to get them to admit something, or she’s pinning the fly to the bulletin board and watching it squirm. And this one, I realized as I was playing it, I was like, “I’ve got to play up the flirtatious side because that’s what he gets really guarded about, the fact that he’s a womanizer. So if I play that up, it’s gonna infuriate him.” And so he backs me up, and then we realize there’s no way out. It’s great, but it’s scary. But she knows that he’s not gonna do anything to her because he still thinks he’s gonna get away with murder. But we added this one [look], and I wanted to make sure [it was kept]. I said, “Please, Robin, please don’t let them cut this.” I look back at him at the very end going, “Gotcha. I got you just where I wanted you. You fell into my trap.” And they kept that in the cut. I was very happy about that because we build these things together, and sometimes they just have to cut them for time. But they didn’t.

Villarreal: Because you’re also thinking with your director’s hat. And I know it must be hard to even think about whether you can direct an episode of “Elsbeth.” But is that something on your bucket list? Or would it just be too difficult to manage?

Preston: I love this job so much. This is the dream job, and I want to make sure that I am doing everything I can to do that in the best way that I can, every day. And I do feel like having directed myself before in the past, in things where I was just a part of the ensemble, the way I choose to direct, I found that I was shortchanging the acting a little bit. I don’t want to do that on this show. I do think it would cost the crew to have me do both things, and I care about them so much. I don’t have to prove that I can do both. The one thing I could do is direct the first episode of the season because I would be able to prep. Otherwise I wouldn’t be able to prepare. I feel like I trust our directors. I love our writers. I love our crew and I love how things are going.

Villarreal: We know Elsbeth as this person with a keen ability to read people, who can sniff out liars, murderers. What was so interesting this season was to see her vulnerable side in her personal life. And see that she has her blind spots too. Were you excited when you saw that they were going to explore this side of her? And what was that like to play?

Preston: I think it’s always a good thing to deepen the character as you go along because, you know, we’re a police procedural; we have to figure out how to put a crime each episode, just structurally. But we want texture to the character, and having that vulnerable side really gave us that. As an actor, if you can find the drama in the comedy, it makes the comedy stronger, and vice versa. It was a wonderful way to stretch myself as an actor. It’s important to always show the heart of a character that you’re playing. The more specific you are, the more universal it is. And I think people can relate to her in that way. Everybody has felt heartbreak or confusion or duped or confused or distrustful of their own intuition and all of that stuff. And so the complexity of that was, of course, great to play.

Villarreal: Are you, Carrie, as perceptive as Elsbeth?

Preston: I do have a little bit of an empath in me. I do feel like I can read a room really quickly and I can kind of tell what people are thinking or what people are feeling. A vibe. I don’t know what it is, but it’s an empathic kind of nature. I have way more boundaries than I think Elsbeth does, but I’m not nearly as brilliant as that woman. I don’t know how many people in the world are. That’s what makes her so special. But I key into that side of her and I can relate to it.

Villarreal: Final question for you. The show will return for a fourth season. What do you want to see from Elsbeth? Who’s your dream guest star? It must shift because you guys are getting everybody.

Preston: We’re getting wonderful people who are interested in the show and I’m so proud of that and I know Jon is too. Jon Tolins is our showrunner. We’ve really, both of us, made it our personal missions to create an environment — and he creates scripts — that people want to come and participate in, and a welcoming place where somebody gets to play a delicious character for eight or nine days and then go on with their busy careers. I never would have dreamed that, for example, Steve Buscemi would have wanted to be on a show like “Elsbeth,” but he did and he asked to be on it. That blew our minds and it still is blowing our minds. So I could not even dream of most of the people that have come on. That said, you know, I’ve said this before, I’m a huge Meryl Streep fan. I would love for her to come on. We think often about, maybe we should see a parent of Elsbeth, a mother maybe. So we play around with different ideas for that, and that would be nice to see because we’ve seen Elsbeth as a mother, but we haven’t seen her as a daughter. We’ve seen her as a friend but we haven’t seen deep into her her origin story. So I think that could be a fun thing to tap in Season 4. But I trust Jon and the writers.

Villarreal: I want Diane Lockhart to stop by.

Preston: I know, wouldn’t that be great? Or Alicia. But I don’t know. We got Sarah Steele who played Marissa [in “The Good Wife” and “The Good Fight.”] That was amazing. But like Michelle King was saying in an interview [for an L.A. Times’ Screen Gab event] yesterday, this show has kind of found its own place separate from that universe. It’s nice if we have people from that universe pop in, but it’s not required. And a lot of our fans never even watched those shows. So that speaks to what Jon and the writers are doing and what we’re, as a collective, bringing to the audience.

Villarreal: Thank you so much for being here. I, for one, can’t wait to see what the bag selection is like in Season 4.

Preston: Me too.

JOHANNESBURG — The government in South Africa and Afrikaner advocacy groups on Wednesday rejected the position of the Trump administration that there’s a humanitarian emergency affecting white people in South Africa.

The argument served as the rationale for raising the U.S. refugee cap, but only for white Afrikaners. The Trump administration said Tuesday that it will admit an additional 10,000 white South Africans into the U.S. as refugees this year, increasing its annual cap, but blocking people from other countries from entering through the program.

President Trump’s announcement on the Federal Register that he was increasing the refugee cap because of “an unforeseen emergency refugee situation.” He blamed the South African government for “recent increases in the incitement of racially motivated violence,” but Trump gave no specific information.

The South African government’s international relations department said Wednesday that accusations of systemic persecution of white Afrikaners are unfounded, pointing out that some beneficiaries of an immigration program have chosen to return to South Africa.

“This reality is further corroborated by the actions of individuals who, despite having availed themselves of this preferential immigration program, have since resolved to return home,” spokesman Chrispin Phiri said.

Afrikaner trade union, Solidariteit, argued that refugee status isn’t a viable solution for Afrikaners, who should thrive in South Africa instead. Spokesman Jaco Kleynhans said that the organization hadn’t discussed any “unforeseen emergency refugee situation” with the Trump administration, but respects the autonomy of U.S. refugee policy toward Afrikaners.

The union “is in no way aware of anything that the Trump administration could be referring to,” Kleynhans said.

AfriForum, a lobbying organization for the country’s white Afrikaner minority with more than 300,000 members, said it “does not have information” regarding the specific assertion that there’s an emergency refugee situation.

The organization’s CEO, Kallie Kriel, said the group’s focus is “fighting to create the circumstances in South Africa where there is no need for Afrikaners to leave.”

Trump suspended the U.S. refugee program on his first day in office and, since then, has turned it into a vehicle to allow Afrikaners — a group of white South Africans descended mainly from Dutch settlers — into the United States. Advocates say the decision to focus a decades-old program on one group has left people around the world fleeing war and strife stranded and with few options.

Refugee groups have questioned why white South Africans are being prioritized ahead of people from countries facing war and natural disasters. Vetting for refugee status in the U.S. often takes years.

The Trump administration’s preference for white Afrikaner refugee admissions, according to Dr. Bryony Fox, a social justice researcher at Stellenbosch University, raises questions about selective humanitarianism, inconsistent refugee protection and favoring privileged groups, while ignoring other refugee populations experiencing severe hardships.

“This risks politicizing refugee protection in a way that may ultimately weaken the legitimacy and universality of the refugee regime itself,” she said.

Gumede writes for the Associated Press.

Spotify Technology SA announced several new initiatives — from concert ticket perks to a major AI-generated music licensing deal — that the Swedish audio streaming company said will help fuel growth over the next four years.

At the first investor day led by new co-chief executives Gustav Söderström and Alex Norström, Spotify outlined a vision revolving around features that will allow people to personalize their listening experience, whether with music, podcasts, audiobooks or working out. Investors liked what they heard, pushing Spotify shares up as much as 18% over the course of the presentation.

Spotify addressed one of Wall Street’s biggest concerns about artificial intelligence by announcing a major new licensing deal with Universal Music Group NV. The agreement will let Spotify launch a tool to let fans create covers and remixes of their favorite songs from artists and songwriters who opt in. Powered by generative AI, the tool will be available as a paid add-on for Spotify Premium users. It will open up additional revenue streams for Spotify and create a new source of income for artists and songwriters on top of what they already earn on the platform, according to the companies.

Spotify has been working with the music industry on ways to harness the power and consumer interest in AI without violating artists’ rights. Last October, the company announced an agreement with the biggest record labels to use AI in a “responsible way,” but didn’t specify at the time what those tools would look like.

“This era of generation doesn’t need to threaten the future of music,” said Charlie Hellman, Spotify’s head of music. “Because we built the system legal, trusted and aligned, we can make sure that the value flows back to the people who created it.”

In another big announcement, the company laid out plans to work with Live Nation Entertainment Inc. to offer Spotify subscribers the option to purchase two tickets to their favorite star’s concert before they go on sale to the general public. The move could help resolve some of the issues fans have had in beating ticket resellers to face-value tickets, while encouraging customers to stay on as subscribers even as Spotify raises monthly fees.

Fans have long complained about the ticketing process for live performances, which often pit people against bots and scalpers, leading to high prices and sold-out shows.

“It’s frustrating for fans,” said Rene Volker, head of live events. “It’s frustrating for artists too, who look out at a crowd and wonder, are the fans who built my career actually here?” The new “Reserved” perk is designed to relieve some of that tension. “No racing bots, no chasing around online for presale codes. Just two tickets held for you,” she said.

The presentations Thursday were designed to comfort investors and prove that Spotify can still innovate. Wall Street has been skeptical that the company can rein in costs while staying ahead of competitors, particularly as it relates to AI. Those concerns have weighed on shares this year, sending them down 25% through Wednesday’s close. While the company makes most of its money through subscriptions, the executives sought to reinforce the idea that they have other levers to pull in order to generate sales beyond monthly fees and that people are willing to spend more for certain features.

The company outlined its growth targets through 2030, including a compound annual growth rate in the mid teens, a gross margin of 35% to 40% and an operating margin above 20%. Spotify remains committed to its long-term goal of 1 billion subscribers, $100 billion in revenue and over 40% in gross margin, the executives said.

Spotify sees its podcast and audiobook features as complementary to music and said the combination of the multiple verticals has helped broaden its community and convert users from free listeners to paid subscribers. Today, more than 500 million people have streamed a video podcast on Spotify, up nearly 50% from a year ago. And in just a few years, Spotify has captured about 20% of the audiobooks market in the US, executives said. People who use all three verticals — music, podcasts and audiobooks — are engaging with Spotify almost every day of the month, according to the company.

Giving people the tools to personalize their listening experience helps keep them in Spotify’s universe — creating what executives described as the “all day user.”

Personal Podcasts, for example, lets people write a prompt in the Spotify app and AI will create a unique podcast in response.

“We see this much more as a daily brief and a recommendation engine than something that would replace you listening to one of your favorite podcasts,” Söderström said in an interview. He noted that 60% of users in mature markets for Spotify don’t yet listen to podcasts, so features like Personal Podcasts could get them to dive into the medium.

The company said its podcast business has been profitable for two years.

Spotify’s Audiobook+ tier gives listeners more than their allotted 15 hours of audiobook listening per month for an additional fee. It has 1 million subscribers and is on track to generate $100 million in annualized revenue, the company said. To capitalize on the demand, Spotify will start selling even more audiobook hours to super users. Additionally, it will allow podcasters to offer memberships, so subscribers can access special episodes and other content. Spotify will take an undisclosed slice of revenue from the memberships.

Carman writes for Bloomberg.

The minibus, carrying nine people, drove through closed crossing barriers during the morning rush hour near the town of Buggenhout.

At least four people have been killed, including two children, after a train travelling at high speed hit a minibus carrying special needs children crossing a railway in Belgium.

According to Belgian authorities on Tuesday, the minibus, carrying nine people, drove through the closed crossing barriers during the morning rush hour near the town of Buggenhout, about 30 kilometres (20 miles) northwest of the capital, Brussels.

Moreover, a spokesperson for the Belgian rail operator Infra-Bel told the RTBF public broadcaster that the train was travelling at an estimated 120 kph (75 mph) as it approached the crossing and had “no time to brake”.

“The impact was extremely violent,” Frederic Sacre said.

Spokesperson for the East Flanders public prosecutor’s office, Lisa De Wilde, said the bus driver, 49, and an escort, 27, were killed along with two children aged 12 and 15.

Five children were injured and were hospitalised in a serious condition, she said, adding that the cause of the crash had not yet been established.

“What we do know is that the barrier was closed and the red light was on,” she said.

Federal Police spokesperson An Berger also said that the minibus driver appeared to have ploughed through the barrier.

“The van came from Kerkhofstraat, a road running parallel to the railway line, and turned left toward Vierhuizen, crossing the railway at a point that was closed at the time. The van was hit by an oncoming train,” Berger said.

Prime Minister Bart De Wever said on X that he was “deeply moved by the horrific accident in Buggenhout”.

“My thoughts go out to the affected families,” De Wever added.

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen also said she was “heartbroken” about the “tragic accident”.

“My deepest condolences go out to the victims’ families and their loved ones,” von der Leyen wrote on X.

It is believed that about 100 passengers were aboard the train and that none were hurt. Rail traffic in the area was also stopped.

Several injured people have been transported to hospitals to be treated for chemical burns.

A chemical tank has imploded at a Nippon Dynawave Packaging facility in the US state of Washington, killing several people and critically injuring others, authorities said.

Emergency responders on Tuesday remained at the site in the city of Longview in Cowlitz County, about 70km (45 miles) north of Portland, Oregon, the Longview Fire Department said in a joint written statement with Nippon and the Cowlitz County Sheriff’s Department.

Multiple patients who suffered from chemical burns and other injuries were transported to nearby hospitals. Authorities said the implosion posed “no immediate threat to the surrounding community”.

The statement said that officials “can confirm fatalities related to the incident” along with “multiple critical injuries”, but did not provide figures.

At least nine workers and one firefighter were taken to hospitals from the site, said Scott Goldstein, the Cowlitz 2 Fire and Rescue chief who was among those who responded. The number of deaths was “undetermined”, he said at a news conference.

PeaceHealth St John Medical Center in Longview told ABC News it had seen nine patients related to the incident, including one who had died. Six of the patients were in fair condition, and two other patients had been transferred to other facilities, the hospital told ABC.

The joint statement said that a tank containing “white liquor”, a chemical solution of sodium hydroxide and sodium sulfide used in the production of paper pulp, had ruptured at about 7:15am local time (14:15 GMT).

Goldstein said at the news conference that the 80,000-gallon (about 300,000-litre) tank was approximately 60 percent full.

In southern California, meanwhile, authorities have been monitoring an overheating industrial tank containing methyl methacrylate, a highly flammable chemical used in the production of plastics. The worst-case possibility of an explosion was ruled out on Monday at the GKN Aerospace facility in Garden Grove after a crack relieved some of the mounting pressure, officials said.

Orange County Fire Authority spokesman Greg Barta said in an update on Tuesday morning that the temperature in the tank was holding steady and that crews were working to ensure that people evacuated could get home as soon as possible.

May 26 (UPI) — An implosion at a manufacturing facility in Washington killed multiple people and injured 10 others, including a firefighter, local authorities said Tuesday.

The implosion at the Nippon Dynawave Packaging facility in Longview, Wash., happened around 7:20 a.m. The facility is a pulp and paper mill, and the implosion involved a vat of a chemical used in paper treatment called white liquor.

White liquor is made of sodium hydroxide, sodium sulfide and disodium carbonate, Cowlitz County fire chief Scott Goldstein told NBC News.

The Longview Fire Department said there was no immediate threat to the public, but the implosion killed multiple people and caused chemical burns and other injuries to others. Officials transported multiple people — including one firefighter — to hospitals in Longview and Vancouver.

Officials haven’t specified how many were among the dead. The Seattle Times reported that emergency responders were also searching for potentially missing people.

Goldstein said some of the injuries were minor while others were more critical.

Washington State Department of Ecology spokeswoman Anna Izenman told The Times that spill responders were on site evaluating any potential environmental impacts from the incident. She said white liquor can’t be collected and cleaned up in the same manner as oil; it can only “self-neutralize” with water over time.

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Tuesday rejected Florida’s long-shot attempt to sue California and Washington state over the issuance of commercial driver licenses to truckers who don’t speak English and are not authorized to be in the United States.

The case stems from a crash in Florida last year that killed three people. The driver, Harjinder Singh, is accused of making an illegal U-turn that caused the accident. Singh, who is from India, was carrying a valid commercial driver’s license from California and had earlier been granted one by Washington state.

Republican-led Florida has accused the Western states, led by Democrats, of openly defying immigration laws and asked the justices to rule that states lack the authority to issue CDLs to people who are not citizens or legal permanent residents.

The Supreme Court typically hears appeals of lower-court decisions, but it sometimes takes on what are known as original lawsuits in which states sue each other in the nation’s highest court.

Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. dissented from Tuesday’s order, as they often do when the court rejects an original lawsuit, saying that the court has no choice but to hear such cases.

Separately, a federal appeals court has blocked a Trump administration proposal to impose new restrictions that would severely limit which immigrants can get commercial driver’s licenses to drive a semitrailer truck or bus.

NEW ORLEANS — At least four states have adopted laws this year making it a crime to disrupt worship services, a reaction to a high-profile protest inside a Minnesota church that prompted outrage from faith leaders.

The Republican lawmakers sponsoring most of the legislation say those gathering at sacred sanctuaries deserve protection beyond what existing trespassing laws provide. They also say these new laws will prevent escalating clashes between congregants and protestors as many churches, mosques and synagogues remain on edge over recent mass shootings and acts of violence targeting religious groups.

“People should go to church to be able to sit in peace, worship as they please, without having to worry about people coming in and harassing them,” said Idaho Sen. Mark Harris, a Republican who co-sponsored legislation criminalizing protests inside places of worship. “I think the thing that happened in Minnesota was kind of a shock to some of us, that churches would be used as a place to berate people.”

Critics in both parties have warned that the laws infringe on free speech rights.

Here’s a look at the situation.

The laws make it a crime to interfere with worship

Bills have been signed into law in Republican-dominated Idaho, Louisiana and Oklahoma. In Kansas, a bill is becoming law without the signature of Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly.

Similar bills have been introduced for this year’s legislative sessions in at least seven other states and in Congress. Nassau County, New York, passed a similar measure this year. In 1994, President Bill Clinton signed a law making it a federal crime to intentionally injure or interfere with or intimidate someone entering a place of worship or a reproductive health facility.

The details in the bills differ, but they all make it a crime to interfere with religious assemblies.

Laws against trespassing already apply to disruptions on the grounds of churches or other private property. But legislators say the new laws would boost penalties and bar other protest activity like holding signs near places of worship.

The penalties could be harsher than for trespassing. In some states, people could face up to a year in prison and fines as high as $10,000 for first offenses. The laws also give the states a way to prosecute cases if local authorities decline to do so.

A protest in Minnesota touched off the call for action

Thirty-nine people, including two journalists, were charged in February for roles in a protest during a St. Paul, Minnesota, church service. The protesters had learned that one of the church pastors was also an official at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement who had been overseeing an intensive Minnesota operation.

The U.S. Department of Justice charged the protesters with conspiracy against religious freedom and interfering with the right of religious freedom. The protesters and journalists have pleaded not guilty and the cases are pending in federal court.

Louisiana Rep. Gabe Firment, a Republican, said he was inspired to introduce legislation that allows protestors to be forcibly removed from churches and other places of worship after seeing videos showing the fearful expressions of children at the Minnesota church.

“The first thought that came to my mind was those poor kids,” Firment said. “You certainly have a right to protest, but just like you don’t have the right to come into someone’s home and act like that, you don’t have the right to come into private church property to do that.”

Oklahoma Sen. Todd Gollihare, a Republican, wrote his bill after anti-abortion protestors disrupted his church service last year. His law bars blocking highways within one mile of a service or approaching someone to hand them a flyer within 100 feet of a place of worship.

His Republican colleague, Sen. Kendal Sacchieri, described the law as extreme and said she was afraid of the precedent it would set.

Court challenges could await the laws

The Nassau County ordinance is already facing a court challenge from the New York Civil Liberties Union, which says there’s no history of residents facing intimidation, harassment or violence outside places of worship — and that the statute denies people their constitutionally protected rights of expression in public places.

Kevin Goldberg, vice president at Freedom Forum, which advocates for First Amendment rights, said that if the laws are challenged in courts, governments would have to show there’s a need for them. “You can’t be guessing, you can’t be speculating,” he said. “There has to be some evidence that there’s an actual threat going on — that there’s been a problem there, that you can reasonably forecast there will be a problem.”

In Louisiana, Democrats raised concerns about mandatory jail time for disrupting services and warned that the laws were too arbitrary, suggesting that they could be applied against a congregant for singing out of turn as a pastor delivers a homily.

“If the spirit just hits me and I start singing during the middle of his homily, and it disrupts his homily in a way where he’s got to say ‘Hey, take a seat’, I mean that would materially disrupt his service and now I’m going to jail for 30 days,” Rep. Edmond Jordan said during a March hearing in the Louisiana Legislature.

The law’s proponents said police officers and judges would have discretion about how to apply the law.

Brook and Mulvihill write for the Associated Press. Mulvihill reported from Haddonfield, N.J.