He drew disparaging notice during a presidential rant and captured headlines after being blocked from delivering a high-profile speech, allegedly at the behest of the White House.
All the while, another governor and Democratic presidential prospect was mixing and mingling in the rarefied Swiss air — though you probably wouldn’t know it.
Flying far below the heat-seeking radar, Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear leaned into the role of economic ambassador, focusing on job creation and other nutsy, boltsy stuff that doesn’t grab much notice in today’s performative political environment.
Like Newsom, Beshear is running-but-not-exactly-running for president. He didn’t set out to offer a stark contrast to California’s governor, the putative 2028 Democratic front-runner. But he’s doing so just the same.
“I think by the time we reach 2028, our Democratic voters are gonna be worn out,” Beshear said during a conversation in his state’s snowy capital. “They’re gonna be worn out by Trump, and they’re gonna be worn out by Democrats who respond to Trump like Trump. And they’re gonna want some stability in their lives.”
Every candidate enters a contest with a backstory and a record, which is condensed to a summary that serves as calling card, strategic foundation and a rationale for their run.
Here’s Andy Beshear’s: He’s the popular two-term governor of a red state that three times voted overwhelmingly for Trump.
He is fluent in the language of faith, well-liked by the kind of rural voters who have abandoned Democrats in droves and, at age 48, offers a fresh face and relative youth in a party that many voters have come to see as old and ossified.
Beshear’s not-yet-candidacy, still in the fledgling phase, offers a mix of aspiration and admonition.
Democrats, he said, need to talk more like regular people. Addiction, not substance use disorder. Hunger, not food assistance.
And, he suggested, they need to focus more on things regular people care about: jobs, healthcare, public safety, public education. Things that aren’t theoretical or abstract but materially affect their daily lives, like the costs of electricity, car insurance and groceries.
“I think the most important thing we should have learned from 2024 is [Democratic voters are] gonna be looking for somebody that can help them pay that next bill,” Beshear said.
He was seated in the Old Governor’s Mansion, now a historic site and Beshear’s temporary office while the nearby Capitol undergoes a years-long renovation.
The red-brick residence, built in the Federal style and completed in 1798, was Beshear’s home from age 6 to 10 when his father, Steve, lived there while serving as lieutenant governor. (Steve Beshear went on to serve two terms as the state’s chief executive, building a brand and a brand name that helped Andy win his first public office, attorney general, in 2015.)
It was 9 degrees outside. Icicles hung from the eaves and snowplows navigated Frankfort’s narrow, winding streets after an unusually cold winter blast.
Inside, Beshear was seated before an unlit fireplace, legs crossed, shirt collar unbuttoned, looking like the pleasantly unassuming Dad in a store-bought picture frame.
He bragged a bit, touting Kentucky’s economic success under his watch. He spoke of his religiosity — his grandfather and great-grandfather were Baptist preachers — and talked at length about the optimism, a political rarity these days, that undergirds his vision for the country.
“I think the American people feel like the pendulum swung too far in the Biden administration. Now they feel it’s swung way too far during the Trump administration,” Beshear said. “What they want is for it to stop swinging.”
He went on. “Most people when they wake up aren’t thinking about politics. They’re thinking about their job, their next doctor’s appointment, the roads and bridges they drive, the school they drop their kids off at, and whether they feel safe in their community.
“And I think they desperately want someone that can move the country, not right or left ideologically, but actually forward in those areas. And that’s how I think we heal.”
Beshear doesn’t shy from his Democratic pedigree, or stray from much of the party’s orthodoxy.
He’s walked the picket line with striking auto workers, signed an executive order making Juneteenth a state holiday and routinely vetoed anti-gay legislation, becoming the first Kentucky governor to attend an LGBTQ+ celebration in the Capitol Rotunda.
“Discrimination against our LGBTQ+ community is unacceptable,” he told an audience. “It holds us back and, in my Kentucky accent, it ain’t right.”
For all of that, Beshear doesn’t shrink from taking on Trump, which, essentially, has become a job requirement for any Democratic officeholder wishing to remain a Democratic officeholder.
“From insulting our allies to telling struggling Americans that he’s fixed inflation and the economy is amazing, the President is hurting both our families’ financial security and our national security,” Beshear posted on social media. “Oh, and Greenland is so important he’s calling it Iceland.”
But Beshear hasn’t turned Trump-bashing into a 24/7 vocation, or a weight-lifting contest where the winner is the critic wielding the heaviest bludgeon.
“I stand up to him in the way that I think a Democratic governor of Kentucky should. When he’s doing things that hurt my state, I speak out,” Beshear said. “I filed 20 lawsuits, I think, and we’ve won almost all of them, bringing dollars they were trying to stop from flowing into Kentucky.
“But,” he added, “when he does something positive for Kentucky, I also say that too, because that’s what our people expect.”
Asked about the towel-snapping Newsom and his dedicated staff of Trump trollers, Beshear defended California’s governor — or, at least, passed on the chance to get in a dig.
“Gavin’s in a very different situation than I’m in. I mean, he has the president attacking him and his state just about every day,” Beshear said. “So I don’t want to be critical of an approach from somebody that’s in a very different spot.
“But the approach also has to be unique to you. For me, I bring people together. We’ve been able to do that in this state. That’s my approach. And in the end, I’ve gotta stay true to who I am.”
And when — or make that if — both Newsom and Beshear launch a formal bid for president, they’ll present Democratic voters a clear choice.
Not just between two differing personalities. Also two considerably different approaches to politics and winning back the White House.
As is always the case, the Grammys this year will be dominated by pop, rap, country and rock. But the best races often lie in the less mainstream genres. Take best jazz vocal album, where Samara Joy, Dee Dee Bridgewater and Bill Charlap, Michael Mayo, Terri Lyne Carrington and Christie Dashiell and Nicole Zuraitis are competing for the honor.
The highly impressive group reflects the current state of jazz, where both young guns and veterans are combining to bring the music to a new swell of fans. To talk about the present state of jazz, The Times brought together 26-year-old Joy and 75-year-old Bridgewater. What followed is an incredible conversation on politics, race, equality and mutual fandom.
You both have had Grammy success. But is it still just as thrilling to be nominated?
Dee Dee Bridgewater: I can speak on that because I haven’t been nominated in years. And yeah, it’s a thrill when you’re nominated and you haven’t been and you’ve done something that your peers think is Grammy worthy. I don’t know about Samara, but for me, I don’t do any of my recorded projects with the intention of getting a Grammy nomination, which seems to be the goal of a lot of younger artists. So that me doing something that I just was trying to chronicle and because of this work that Bill and I have been doing off and on for the last few years, it’s like the icing on the cake. It’s wonderful.
Samara Joy: Agreed, when I say I’m just grateful to be here, like in this space, being able to talk about this in this way, I mean it. It wasn’t the intention behind making the music that I love to make with the people I love to make it with. And when kids come up to me and they say, “Because of you, now my goal is to be a Grammy winner.” I’m like, “You’ve already strayed way off course. We need to come back.” And realize that the accolades and the awards and the acknowledgment is beautiful because it’s coming from your peers and we’re celebrating each other. It’s amazing, it’s exciting, it’s wonderful. I’m grateful for it. But at the same time, the other 364 days of the year, we’re working and we’re touring and we’re performing because we love it. And it’s with the intention of seeing what else we can learn and express and finding new ways to do that. I’m grateful to be in the conversation, but also I’m using it even more as an opportunity to thank the people who support us and who listen to the music and who come to the concerts to say that that’s what I love. So, the fact that people have connected with it enough to acknowledge it on such a high level is amazing, but the love of it never goes away.
Bridgewater: Yes, I agree with that, Samara. When I do my work, because I like to call myself an artist who flies under the radar, I’m basically out there trying to bring joy to people. With the music that I do, I try to change up the projects depending on what is going on in the world or depending on what I’m thinking about and feeling about society and just trying to make a connection with people and be a conduit for the people and speak through the songs, things that I think will bring them joy or get them to think about some things that they are not wanting to say out loud. So, that’s what I’m doing right now. Then with my music, what I’m trying to do is bring more attention to women in jazz. For the last few years, aside from my occasional concerts with Bill [Charlap], I have been working with women. I have created a band. I call it We Exist! We are doing socially conscious music, some protest songs, and that is what I’m taking around the world. Generally, people come up to me and say, “Thank you so much for saying these things for us. We need to hear this.” My concern at my older age, now that I’m in my golden years, is the state of society and the world and this political crisis that we are in. So, I’m trying to speak about this in a way that people can hear it without getting on some kind of political bandstand and speaking in that way. I think that the world is in danger politically and I think our democracy is in danger. That’s my concern and that’s what I’m trying to do through my music. Also, I want people to see more women in the jazz space, and I think as an elder it’s almost an obligation of mine to lead that front and present this and present this image. I get many women that come up and say, “Thank you so much for doing this for women.” So, that’s where my head is right now.
Dee Dee Bridgewater
(Hernan Rodriguez)
How exciting is it to see that, of the jazz vocal nominees, four of the five are women?
Bridgewater: Yeah, and isn’t that wonderful? But I can say this, for vocal jazz, it usually is women. This has been the place where we have been allowed to shine as vocalists. It’s been for many, many years, the only place where we’re allowed to shine. So, when you get female instrumentalists besides Terri Lyne [Carrington] because Terri Lyne broke through in a period of when there were not a lot of jazz drummers, so that she worked with Herbie [Hancock] and she worked with Wayne [Shorter]. They gave her a platform that most women are not granted. Of course, also, one has to be extremely talented. And Terri Lyne can stand beside any man and hold her own and outdo many men. That’s not the point. The point is that she had that opportunity. They gave her that opportunity and then she’s been able to pay it forward. But to see instrumentalists like Lakecia Benjamin who has really come to the forefront as an alto saxophonist and to see her get Grammy nominations, that’s something that, for me, is huge.
Samara, talk about what you’re seeing in the scene today in terms of gender disparity and overall vibe.
Joy: I’ve had the opportunity to play with some amazing ones. I went to the Vanguard a few weeks ago and sat in with [Christian] McBride and Savannah Harris was on drums. I played with Alexandra Ridout, who is an incredible trumpet player as well. Although I understand the disparity in the current time and throughout history, I also understand that I might be living through a privileged time where I just kind of see women around me everywhere. So, I don’t understand what it’s like to be without it on the scene. I can read about the fact that maybe at a time saxophone was taking precedence over jazz vocals or with each era, there’s a new focus. But I guess on the scene now I’m proud to be able to see all of these wonderful women composers and instrumentalists stepping to the forefront.
Both of you have made music that is very uplifting as well. In these difficult times, music is something that can lift the spirits and bring people together. For each of you talk about making music that uplifts because there are so many great jazz standards that have the point of lifting up the world.
Bridgewater: I’m here in town at Birdland with Bill Charlap and we are doing songs from the American Songbook primarily and Duke Ellington. It has nothing to do with anything that’s going on today, politically speaking. Last night was our first show and the audience just loved it. So, there is that side that one can take. And I’ve been very apolitical. It’s just since the two Trump administrations and the Gaza war that happened and some other things that I’ve seen going on outside of the United States that have really incensed me that I felt the need to speak out in the way that I am, you know. But it is wonderful to go to a show and have people come to see a show and be able to completely lose themselves and be outside of what is going on for that span of time that they are with the artists. For the other side, when I do these socially conscious songs, people come and say, “Oh my God, thank you. I needed to hear that. I needed to hear someone.” Because my point at the end of my show is I say, “We the people have the power, we can’t forget that. We are the people that can motivate the change and protect our democracy because we see democracy being chipped away around the world.” I grew up in an era where there was a distinct difference between Black and white and I was not able to be served when I would go to sit at a lunch counter as a little Black girl. So, I’ve experienced both sides. My awareness is different than Samara’s and I feel the alarms. The alarm bells are just ringing for me. But when I come back and I do a show with Bill, sometimes it’s difficult for me to get into these sweet, innocent songs because they don’t have the gravitas that I’m experiencing doing a Nina Simone song like “Mississippi Goddam.” For me, artistically speaking, it’s been interesting to find a balance. Samara, you do these beautiful songs with that stunning voice of yours. Your take is totally different. And you’ve grown up in another era.
Joy: This is the first time in my life that I have not only been aware of what’s happening in the world but also feel compelled. Like, I have a responsibility to do something about it because I’ve never been so aware of what is happening around me as I am right now. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or bad thing but I just feel like, ”OK, I’m an adult and this is the world that I live in and I have a responsibility as one of the people living in this world to not only do something about it right now but do something for the next generation of people who are going to have to live in the world that results in what we do right now.” It’s scary. I don’t know how people do it, especially because it’s not as difficult right now. It’s not as difficult for me to say something that might have been for an Abbey Lincoln or Nina Simone or whoever. I’m also living in a sort of luxury in that way that I don’t have to speak out and be the only one who is doing so and then be proven right later. In that way, I’m like, “I have to because of all these women who have gone before me, who made that difference and who stood and didn’t get appreciated or thanked for it in the moment, have made it so that the world that I live in now, as crazy as it is, I’m able to have a platform in the first place and be able to lead some sort of charge — or at least spread some sort of message so that the world that we’re building for the ones who come later. It’s not just about me right now, it’s all interconnected.” It feels a little heavy, a little scary. I’m still trying to figure out where my voice fits.
Bridgewater: You know what, honey, I get that. When I was your age, I honestly was not at all concerned about politics and what was going on. I was concerned about my Blackness because I’ve experienced our people being named four different times. When I was a little girl, I was colored, then I was Negro, and when they said Black, I was incensed because your hair is black. Our skin is brown. But I understand where you’re coming from because you are coming up in a different time. And you are just beginning to navigate all of the politics, so you’re going to probably go through a similar kind of thing that I went through when I was young, and I concentrated on just writing my music and things that spoke to me. You’re fine where you are and you’re going to learn to navigate all of this in time and what I would hope for you is that you don’t feel a weight. We’re all going to feel this heaviness because of the situation that we’re in but as an artist, I want you to feel free to discover and do the things that you feel in your spirit and not feel led to do something because it’s what’s going on around you. You’ve got to continue to stay true to yourself, which you’ve been doing, which is wonderful. I’m at a different stage in my life. I’m in the last quarter of my life. I’m 75 and I’ve been through all of this stuff. I feel like I’m at a place where if I want to say something instead of not like I’ve done in the past, I’m going to speak my mind. I want to say this to Samara and I’ve said this to her before. But I am so proud of you and what you are doing. And you have a voice that the gods have blessed you with, Samara. At my age to be in the same space with you for the Grammys, I am so tickled. I love you so dearly. I truly do, and you know that. The times that we’ve been on stage together, it’s been wonderful for me. I want you to know that there are people who are your elders who, besides loving you like we do, we depend on you, Samara. You have been able to enter the space and bring jazz to the world in a way that we were not.
Joy: I love you too. I’m sitting here thinking about one of the first times I got the chance to see you perform at Blue Note. I was there with my professor at the time. I was so nervous, but I’m so honored to know you. I’m so honored to have loved you from afar and now get the chance to love you up close and honor you and appreciate you and shower you just as you have showered me.
If you were going to do one song together at the Grammys, what would you want to do?
Joy: “I Wish I Knew How it Would Feel to be Free,” [Nina Simone].
Bridgewater: That’s in my repertoire. I do that. That would be a great one, Samara. I’m on board. We would tear it up.
This article contains spoilers for Part 1 of Season 4 of “Bridgerton.”
Luke Thompson and Yerin Ha are lounging on a blue velvet couch in a swanky green room inside of Netflix’s offices in New York, bracing for the whirlwind that inevitably envelops every pair of actors who become the central couple in a season of the popular romance drama “Bridgerton.” And they’re still settling into the idea of being romantic leads.
“It doesn’t feel real,” Ha says fresh into their first press day in early December. “Because for a very long time, I didn’t think that it was possible for me — maybe I should have dreamed bigger. To keep saying that I’m the lead of a season feels really bizarre.”
“But maybe that’s a way of coping with it,” Thompson says. “I remember in Season 1, I just finished a Zoom call and I just sat in my living room and it was the first time I really touched into the idea that millions of people are watching this thing. Millions of people. And I never did it again.”
“You just did it for me now,” Ha says with a smidgen of dread that launches the pair into laughter. “That’s not really helping.”
Thompson, though, isn’t feeling the pressure of keeping the romance alive and extremely meme-able as they take up the mantle of the Regency-era fairy tale.
“It’s a show that’s proven time and time again that there’s huge appetite for romance,” he says. “It was a genre that might have been, not looked down on, but not really taken very seriously. To be able to incarnate some projection of romance for people, particularly in January and February, when people are feeling a bit miserable, maybe, it’s lovely to be part of that.”
The duo play Benedict and Sophie, affectionately dubbed #Benophie, a couple whose story gives the classic Cinderella tale a bit of steam and is one that readers of Julia Quinn’s “An Offer From a Gentleman,” which inspired this season, know well. Thompson’s Benedict, whom “Bridgerton” viewers have come to know as the artistic, pansexual second-oldest son of the Bridgerton clan, has long shown disinterest in settling down or adhering to societal norms. But then in Part 1 of Season 4, released Thursday, he meets Sophie Baek, a maid in her abusive stepmother’s home, at a masquerade ball hosted by his mother. Viewers eventually learn Sophie’s servitude is forced after her parentage is revealed — she’s the illegitimate daughter of an earl.
Yerin Ha as Sophie Baek and Luke Thompson as Benedict Bridgerton during their masquerade ball meet-cute in Season 4.
(Liam Daniel / Netflix)
Showrunner Jess Brownell says this season, they were is interested in prodding the wish-fulfillment fantasy many of us were introduced to at a young age.
“We learn about them as children from Disney movies,” she says. “For us, though, in interacting with this trope, it was really important to interrogate it a little bit. I think what our interrogation hopefully reveals is that oftentimes it’s the prince figure or the man of a ‘higher station’ who … needs to do some work on himself, to step out of his fantasy life a little bit and step more into reality to be worthy of the love of a Cinderella-type. It’s not to say that the Sophie character doesn’t have her own journey to go on, I think that she absolutely has to let her walls down and has to allow herself to dream of and believe in the possibility of love.”
Over a video call from that cozy couch inside Netflix’s offices, Thompson and Ha discussed navigating the spotlight as the newest “Bridgerton” couple, this season’s very unromantic declaration of love and trying to capture a swoon-worthy meet-cute behind an oversized mask.
The excitement for this season is already in full effect. How are you feeling about Benophie as the couple name? Am I even pronouncing it right?
Thompson: I don’t know!
Ha: I think that is right. I initially said Ben-off-ee like Banoffee pie, but then I realized it wouldn’t make sense because it’s So-fee. So Ben-o-fee would make more sense.
Thompson: There’s been a couple of fun AI pictures.
Ha: I actually just got one yesterday from my mom about our kids, our future kids. [Thompson laughs.] And I was like, “Mom, why are you on the internet looking at these things?” So it’s really out there, and I’m really being fed it out of my own will, but it’s amazing to see people already so excited about it and wanting to create things and future possibilities. It’s quite amazing. And the fans are actually so lovely.
Thompson: I think that’s one of the best things about social media, actually; that whole aspect of people projecting or imagining themselves or creating stuff sometimes. That’s something that we never used to be able to really get a handle on, but to be able to see the amount of energy and thought that people put into it is kind of amazing.
Ha: Also creative artistry. So many fans are drawing, sketching. It’s incredible. The amount of talent that people just share with us, it’s really beautiful.
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1.The “Bridgerton” couples over the seasons: Simon Basset (Regé-Jean Page) and Daphne Bridgerton (Phoebe Dynevor) in Season 1.2.Kate Sharma (Simone Ashley) and Anthony Bridgerton (Jonathan Bailey) in Season 2.3.Colin Bridgerton (Luke Newton) and Penelope Featherington (Nicola Coughlan) in Season 3.4.Benedict Bridgerton (Luke Thompson) and Sophie Baek (Yerin Ha) in Season 4.(Liam Daniel / Netflix)
Luke, you’ve had three seasons to observe how others have taken on this mantle. Did Jonathan or Luke impart any words of wisdom as you stepped into lead duties? Did you have any observations in watching them navigate the spotlight and the intensity of this?
They were always very, very open to offering advice — Regé[-Jean Page, who led the first season as Simon Bassett, the Duke of Hastings], as well; all three of them. That’s been really, really helpful to know that it’s there. In terms of observing them, that’s why I’ve had a bit of a lucky ride, really, because I got to watch them. I mean this in a positive way — Regé is very serious. There’s something about the nature of the show that could encourage you to be a bit more light about it, but I think he really took it very seriously. Johnny [Jonathan Bailey, who plays Anthony Bridgerton] has this amazing energy that’s extremely contagious. I watched that and how that affects the atmosphere on set. And then Luke [Newton, who plays Colin Bridgerton] is very sensitive and he’s very careful and clued in terms of how and when he expresses himself. I’m so lucky I got to watch all of them do it and admire them and think about them and think also about how it would work for me.
What about you, Yerin? You’re a newcomer to this fictional world being thrown into the deep end. Did you get any useful feedback from Nicola Coughlan or Simone Ashley?
I didn’t have the years of looking at the other leads actually experience it. But Nicola and Simone, from the get-go when I was cast, they offered to give me advice and be like, “We’re here for you if you need it.” But the thing about it is, everyone is so different and unique with what they actually struggle with and what is going to be their challenge. I didn’t really know what I wanted advice about, but it was just always so nice and supportive to know that they were there if I needed them. But also, Luke, who was my main scene partner, was in “Bridgerton” for years, so I was able to also lean on him and also the other fellow castmates if I felt insecure or if I didn’t really know how to go about things.
Luke Thompson on “Bridgerton”: “It’s a show that’s proven time and time again that there’s huge appetite for romance,” he says. “To be able to incarnate some projection of romance for people, particularly in January and February, when people are feeling a bit miserable, maybe, it’s lovely to be part of that.”
(Tyler Twins / For The Times)
This being “Bridgerton,” the chemistry between Benedict and Sophie is so crucial to the magic of their story and how it develops over time. Tell me about the chemistry read. What do you remember about meeting each other?
Thompson: It was like this.
Ha: You’re third wheeling with us.
Thompson: It was on Zoom.
Ha: I was in Korea. It was 11 p.m. and I was trying to manage my nerves the entire day, which was quite stressful. And then I logged on, you [Thompson] were there. You had a striped shirt on, I remember — quite vividly, actually. I said that he looked quite tired. Maybe it was me projecting, thinking that he was having lots of auditions, reading with lots of people by then.
Thompson: I’m trying to think how many; we hadn’t auditioned that many people because it’s a very particular part. What we were asking or looking for was fairly particular. That’s the other thing I thought: How are we going to be able to do a chemistry read on Zoom? With all the awkwardness of doing it on Zoom — having to pretend that you’re turning your back and there’s a lake and having to sort of mime in front of the camera is so, so cheesy — despite all of that, I just remember reading scenes with you and feeling very relaxed. You know it when you see it. As soon as the Zoom call ended, I told you, Tom Verica [an executive producer and a director of the series] was a bit teary, and we were like, “Well, obviously it’s her.”
Ha: Obviously the stakes are so high on my end, because he’s already in the show, so I was so focused on just trying to be present and not trying to force anything. I think that’s when it gets a little bit weird. I just remember looking at you in the screen, and Luke’s such an open person anyways, and so it was quite easy to do the scene, despite that there was lots of interjections in the audition scene that we had to do, but we just pushed through.
What were the scenes that you had to do together that day? The lake scene —
Thompson: The lake scene and the tea scene. Just two.
In Season 4, viewers know Sophie (Yerin Ha) is the lady whom Benedict (Luke Thompson) meets at the masquerade ball, but he hasn’t connected the dots when they meet again later.
(Liam Daniel / Netflix)
In the world of romance, how two characters meet is often as important as how they get together. And the masquerade ball holds a lot of excitement and expectations for fans of the book. How did you feel tackling that scene? Did the masks help alleviate any nerves?
Ha: For me, it was a bit more pressure in the sense that my mask is so big [Thompson laughs], it’s hard to actually be quite expressive when your cheekbones are hidden under this mask. I just remember sometimes Tom would be like, “You got to express more with your eyes and your lips.”
Thompson: It’s basically like you were wearing a paper bag.
Ha: Yes! So, that was a challenge, but also, in a way, sometimes masks make you feel a little bit invincible … Sophie, especially in that night, the mask makes her brave and courageous; when she takes off the physical mask, that’s when the metaphorical mask actually comes into play.
Thompson: You’re right. The mask thing is integral to how they both meet. They even talk about it when they’re on the gazebo, the terrace; they have that whole scene where it is all about asking questions, not answering questions. To Benedict, [with] Sophie you’re constantly like, “Is she in earnest? Does she actually not know how to dance? Is she joking that she doesn’t know how to dance? Is she playing the role of someone?” There’s so many different questions about it — and I think that’s what’s so romantic about it. It’s so recognizable because that’s always what love at first sight is. It’s not that in that moment, two people completely see each other; there’s a game that starts happening. It’s all about what they allow the other to see or not, and sometimes there’s these really nice bits where they keep missing each other. There’s that amazing bit … when she’s spying through the door, and then just as she leaves, Benedict looks. It’s the pattern of their relationship, it’s how it’s always been — and it starts in this amazing little dream.
I imagine there was there a lot of discussions on what these masks should look like?
Ha: Yes. The costume team are incredible; they had, like, five different versions of it. Some of it was just completely covering my face with material. And then they were like, “Maybe not.” Because obviously Benedict sees her later as Sophie, and so why doesn’t he recognize her? They had to play this really fine line. But they are so creative and quick to change and adapt and bring in new designs. It turned out really beautifully.
Thompson: One of my fears actually reading the book was, “Oh, is it going to seem a little silly [that] Benedict doesn’t recognize her?” But actually, it’s so ornate, the mask is such a thing. When I since watched the episodes, I was like, yeah, I buy that he can see and feel something. He just can’t put it together.
Yerin Ha on becoming a leading lady in “Bridgerton”: “It doesn’t feel real,” she says. “Because for a very long time, I didn’t think that it was possible for me — maybe I should have dreamed bigger.”
(Tyler Twins / For The Times)
Yerin, our first glimpse of you as Sophie was as she’s putting on the mask — she’s a mystery to both Benedict and the viewers in that first episode, but we come to learn her story, which has echoes of Cinderella. What excited you about Sophie?
Ha: The thing for me is Sophie’s character and morals; it’s the fact that despite all the obstacles and the challenges, she’s still able to lead and live the world with a really caring heart. She’s still witty and she still has a bit of humor to her. But to be honest with you, the thing for me that I really connected with Sophie was her journey and discovery into self-love and knowing that she’s also deserving of it. That’s something I, at least, talk about a lot with my friends — and what does self-love look like and feel like and mean to me? I learned a lot through Sophie, as well, and knowing that it’s who you decide to bring into your life. Love is not just in someone, it’s about the people in the community that you created.
Benedict’s sexuality, his fluidity, has been something the writers have explored in building his overall arc. How will that be discussed or addressed as his relationship with Sophie develops?
Thompson: It’s a tricky one, right? Benedict is quite striking as a character — I can understand why people see all sorts of identities and words that would apply to him in a modern context. A lot of particularly male sexuality, generally, can be portrayed in quite a box-y, angsty way — where it’s like, “Oh, you’re either gay or you’re straight, or this or that.” What’s nice about a character is that it’s a unique construction. It’s not a representation of any particular experience. It seems like, for him, his sexuality isn’t necessarily a big determiner of his identity; it is a symptom of him wanting to explore. He’s curious and he’s open. I guess what I’m trying to say is, if you’re truly open, that means you can form a connection with anyone. You could argue that it’s a force that has kept him, so far, at least, in a relentless chase for freedom and dodging the falling in love part, and I think I’m more interested in that.
About that — let’s get into his misguided declaration of love at the end of Part I. You read the books, you knew it was coming. It was the moment we‘ve come to expect from this show — until the last line where he asks her to be his mistress. How did you decide to play that moment?
Thompson: It is contextual, historically. There’s that scene in the Gentleman’s Club where, clearly, he can see that there are people who have that arrangement and do love each other. But I also think that’s a cop-out. That’s maybe trying to soften what is essentially Benedict’s main flaw. He’s been shown to be caring in many ways. But I also think the problem with someone like that is, if you’re charming to everyone, how can you develop something specific with one person? All of his front makes it very difficult for him to fall for someone, and to really engage and really commit to someone. Him saying that thing can be seen as him trying to have his cake and eat it — like, I’m going to splice the sort of fantasy I’ve got and the real world, and just mash it together and that will work.
He’s a bit blind. Season 4 is about his blindness, literally, in terms of recognizing her, but also that he can’t see that that wouldn’t be a perfect solution. He is maybe a bit blind about it and doesn’t necessarily consider how that might feel for Sophie. I would also say that he doesn’t have the information he needs from Sophie at that stage about being the lady in silver, which is an interesting tension. It’s fascinating because it’s a really dumb move from a character that you wouldn’t necessarily think would come from a character like that, but actually, to me, it makes complete sense that it would come from him. Benedict’s dad died very early, so he has an image of a loving relationship as something pretty terrifying, so you can understand why he’d want to avoid that, or want to find his way to escape the real commitment … but also have his cake.
Yerin, how did you feel about it?
Ha: I was so disappointed. I remember when we were doing the scene, I did actually feel genuinely angry. Benedict lives more in the fantasy realm, and Sophie definitely lives in more of the reality realm, but in that moment, it’s almost like she’s getting drunk on his words. She’s almost imagining as if there’s going to be a proposal, even though she knows that back in those days, that wouldn’t even really work. But she’s hoping and dreaming. But the minute he says that, she wakes up and she realizes, “Actually, this can never be”; her walls are back up. It almost takes her back to a place of her childhood and how she feels as a kid … It brings a lot of trauma back for her. I just remember doing that scene and feeling like I wanted to slap Benedict.
Thompson: We should have tried it. One take. I think people would have loved that.
At the end of Part 1, Thompson’s and Ha’s characters share a declaration of love gone wrong: “I remember when we were doing the scene, I did actually feel genuinely angry,” Ha says.
(Tyler Twins / For The Times)
Did you work with an intimacy coordinator for that scene? How was it to film that first moment of intimacy between the characters?
Ha: It was really hot on the set — literally, metaphorically. It was hot. It was the candles, and the air traveled up and it was a tiny, narrow set. But Lizzie, our intimacy coordinator, she is the best, she is incredible. There’s different ways that you can kind of go about it, where it’s paint by numbers or a blueprint, and just find your way to like A, B and C, which is more the vibe that we went through. She’s so amazing in the energy and space that she creates. She guides us and listens to each of us and what we need and how to make it maybe look a little bit nicer or rougher or whatever it is. I really lean on her as an intimacy coordinator, and felt very safe in those scenes because it is quite vulnerable and exposing.
Thompson: It was a security blanket, isn’t it? It’s just nice having someone to monitor it, so you’re not just stuck, just you two, or you and the director, who sometimes, in my previous … experience, directors are often quite embarrassed about those scenes, which drives me mad because I’m like, “You’re not the one that has to do this.” It’s all about trust. It’s very important to have that person there to facilitate and to have an outside eye on it because what feels good doesn’t necessarily look good. You need to have them choreographed because the actors can only really relate from the inside out, so they don’t know what stories being told outside.
This season’s story has hints of “Cinderella” in it. Did you channel any classic romance heroes, heroines or stories as you prepped?
Thompson: The masquerade ball made me think about Romeo and Juliet a lot. It’s Romeo and Juliet-coded, the way they meet and just going off somewhere private. I don’t think consciously, I thought about that, but when we were doing it, it really brought that into my head.
Ha: I guess because it’s the constant “Cinderella” nod, I really relied heavily on “Cinderella.” It does veer off from the “Cinderella” story. And I do want to acknowledge that it’s a starting point, not the actual plot line. She was my favorite princess growing up. I had a full dress with a Cinderella icon on it. I would wear that every second day.
Thompson: That’s so sweet.
Ha: I just wanted to meet my prince.
The first half ends with Benedict and Sophie at a crossroads, an impasse.
Thompson: Benedict and Sophie meet in dream scenarios. They meet in the masquerade ball, which is Sophie’s dream. Then they meet in [Benedict’s] cottage, which is sort of Benedict’s dream place. Then in [Episode] 4, they have to go back to the ton and the real world. It’s a struggle that everyone knows very well, when you fall for someone, and there’s the honeymoon period where you’re spinning this story together. Then it’s like, how do you deal with the real world, and how do you deal with getting bored with each other or getting angry with one another? It’ll be interesting to see how they find each other again.
Ha: Even reading the scripts, I was like, how are they going to make this work, especially acknowledging the class difference as well, nobility and her being a servant. Fans will really want to see how it all plays out. When society tells you can’t be with someone, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to surrender to that or are you going to fight for it? That’s going to be the journey for Part 2.
With any fandom, parasocial relationships form. There’s an attachment and shipping of fictional characters, but it can sometimes extend to the actors outside of the characters. How do you navigate that?
Ha: I think we’re just being us. What’s really lovely about Luke is that I have so much love for him as a human being, but I can’t control what people project and I can’t control what people will think and create a narrative and story. But I know my truth, and I know that I respect Luke as a human, as an actor, as a colleague, as a friend. We’re very professional, but we’re also good friends.
Thompson: That’s right. It’s nice to have stuff projected on you — that’s the joy of being an actor. You want people to look at you, want them to get lost in some idea of you. My point of view is always to absolutely welcome that and also say, but I don’t have to set the record straight for anyone. It’s their show. Even when I meet fans in the street, I don’t really think, “Oh, they’re coming for me.” They’re seeing the show. It’s a slightly overused word, but it is just about getting those boundaries straight in your head. You can’t really enjoy the attention that you get from fans because you think it’s coming for you. But actually, if you’ve got that nice boundary, you get to enjoy the attention from the fans.
SAN FRANCISCO — Katie Porter’s still standing, which is saying something.
The last time a significant number of people tuned into California‘s low-frequency race for governor was in October, when Porter’s political obituary was being written in bold type.
Immediately after a snappish and off-putting TV interview, Porter showed up in a years-old video profanely reaming a staff member for — the humanity! — straying into the video frame during her meeting with a Biden Cabinet member.
The former Orange County congresswoman had played to the worst stereotypes and that was that. Her campaign was supposedly kaput.
But, lo, these several months later, Porter remains positioned exactly where she’d been before, as one of the handful of top contenders in a race that remains stubbornly formless and utterly wide open.
Did she ever think of exiting the contest, as some urged, and others plainly hoped to see? (The surfacing of that surly 2021 video, with the timing and intentionality of a one-two punch, was clearly not a coincidence.)
No, she said, not for a moment.
“Anyone who thinks that you can just push over Katie Porter has never tried to do it,” she said.
“You definitely learn from your mistakes,” the Democrat said this week over a cup of chai in San Francisco’s Financial District. “I really have and I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about how do I show Californians who I am and that I really care about people who work for me. I need to earn back their trust and that’s what campaigns are literally about.”
She makes no excuse for acting churlish and wouldn’t bite when asked about that double standard — though she did allow as how Democratic leader John Burton, who died not long before people got busy digging Porter’s grave, was celebrated for his gruff manner and lavish detonation of f-bombs.
“It was a reminder,” she said, pivoting to the governor’s race, “that there have been other politicians who come on hot, come on strong and fight for what’s right and righteous and California has embraced them.”
Voters, she said, “want someone who will not back down.”
Porter warmed to the subject.
“If you are never gonna hurt anyone’s feelings, you are never gonna take [JPMorgan Chase Chief Executive] Jamie Dimon to task for not thinking about how his workers can’t afford to make ends meet. If you want everyone to love you, you are never gonna say to a big pharma CEO, ‘You didn’t make this cancer drug anymore. You just got richer, right?’ That is a feistiness that I’m proud of.”
At the same, Porter suggested, she wants to show there’s more to her persona than the whiteboard-wielding avenger that turned her into a viral sensation. The inquisitorial stance was, she said, her role as a congressional overseer charged with holding people accountable. Being governor is different. More collaborative. Less confrontational.
Her campaign approach has been to “call everyone, go everywhere” — even places Porter may not be welcomed — to listen and learn, build relationships and show “my ability to craft a compromise, my ability to learn and to change my mind.”
“All of that is really hard to convey,” she said, “in those whiteboard moments.”
“When we say boring, I think what we’re really saying is ‘I’m not 100% sure how all this is going to work out.’ People are waiting for some thing to happen, some coronation of our next governor. We’re not gonna have that.”
None of those running this time have that political pedigree, or the Sacramento backgrounds of Newsom or Brown, which, Porter suggested, is not a bad thing.
“I actually think this race has the potential to be really, really exciting for California,” she said. “… I think everyone in this race comes in with a little bit of a fresh energy, and I think that’s really good and healthy.”
Crowding into the conversation was, inevitably, Donald Trump, the sun around which today’s entire political universe turns.
But, she said, Trump didn’t cause last year’s firestorm. He didn’t make housing in California obscenely expensive for the last many decades.
“When my children say ‘I don’t know if I want to go to college in California because we don’t have enough dorm housing,’ Trump has done plenty of horrible attacks on higher ed,” Porter said. “But that’s a homegrown problem that we need to tackle.”
Indeed, she’s “very leery of anyone who does not acknowledge that we had problems and policy challenges long before Donald Trump ever raised his orange head on the political horizon.”
Although California needs “someone who’s going to [buffer] us against Trump,” Porter said, “you can’t make that an excuse for why you are not tackling these policy changes that need to be.”
She hadn’t finished her tea, but it was time to go. Porter gathered her things.
She’d just spoken at an Urban League forum in San Francisco and was heading across the Bay Bridge to address union workers in Oakland.
The June 2 primary is some ways off. But Porter remains in the fight.
As far as first impressions go, new UCLA football coach Bob Chesney has been hitting the ball out of the park, according to high school coaches who have been receiving visits since Chesney started focusing on introducing himself to local coaches when the college transfer portal closed on Jan. 16.
“He’s a high-energy guy who has a clear vision,” St. John Bosco coach Jason Negro said. “He’s going to bring some excitement back. I was highly impressed. If he’s going to execute what his plan is, he’s going to have immediate success.”
There are so many Chesney sightings at high schools around Southern California, you have to wonder if he’s also scouting for a new house, but that’s probably left to his wife. On his visit to St. John Bosco, his driver was former St. John Bosco assistant Marshawn Friloux, a holdover in the Bruins’ recruiting department from the previous staff.
Bellflower coach Keith Miller, whose son, Austin, is one of the top tight ends from the class of 2029, got a school visit from Chesney, who also met Miller’s wife. Austin was offered a scholarship on Saturday after an unofficial visit to Westwood.
Miller said Chesney was eloquent and transparent, telling his son, “I didn’t just watch your film, I studied it and what stood out to me are the multiple efforts you make, especially your ‘scoop and score’ vs. Oxnard. Multiple effort playmakers are special. All great players have that trait. That’s what I love about you.”
UCLA has also been making early scholarship offers far more than the days when Chip Kelly refused to join that trend. Things started to change under former coach DeShaun Foster and Chesney’s new recruiting philosophy appears to be to get UCLA involved among multiple prospects in all grades and be competitive in Southern California, where coaches from USC, Oregon, California, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Oregon State and Washington were among those making the rounds last week while making scholarship offers.
As an example of the challenge Chesney faces, USC coach Lincoln Riley brought in the No. 1 recruiting class this year and was visiting the No. 1 player for the class of 2027 in California, defensive back/running back Honor Fa’alave-Johnson from San Diego Cathedral Catholic.
“I think he’s got a vision and a belief to develop kids and not create this transactional culture in college football,” Orange Lutheran coach Rod Sherman said of Chesney. “I think you’d be a fool to sleep on UCLA the next few years. He’s super personal. What I sense from him is they have well thought out recruiting strategy and they’re not throwing spaghetti against the wall. He knows which kids can be successful in his culture and system and thrive and love UCLA.”
But NIL resources remain critical in this new era, and some players and parents will continue to place that priority over others. That will require Chesney to find those “diamonds in the rough” from his James Madison coaching days.
Negro said, “He’s going to fit to what is needed for the program. He’s not normally going to focus just on the stars. He’s done that at a lower level. He’s going to find some foundational players. It’s going to be hard at first. If people have expectations they’re going to pull an Indiana, that’s premature. But UCLA is closer than people think. This guy is very dynamic, hard-driven and understands L.A.”
Said Servite coach Chris Reinert: “He’s doing things the right way. He seems to be hitting the ground running. He spent an hour here.”
Chesney promised in his opening news conference in December that he wanted to build relationships with high school coaches, and Negro confirmed Chesney is inviting coaches to visit UCLA. That’s not unusual. Reinert said USC’s Riley did the same.
Chesney dropped by City Section school Hamilton, which has a top Class of 2029 quarterback in Thaddeus Breaux. Then Breaux was offered a scholarship. Hamilton coach Elijah Asante said, “Coach Chesney is a grinder and he’s going to find those hidden gems.”
Expect more Chesney sightings this week until the recruiting period closes at the end of this week.
Don’t stop me if you’ve heard this one before, since I’m admittedly something of a broken record on the subject, but I very much prefer Marvel’s television series, which tend to be fleet, original and unpredictable, to its movies, which tend not to be. “Loki,”“Ms. Marvel,”“Moon Knight,”“Echo,”“WandaVision” and its spinoff “Agatha All Along” — all (among others) are worth watching, even the ones that are dumped after a season.
Developing longer stories with less money, the TV shows makers need to be inventive, creative with their resources, so they invest in characters and ideas rather than special effects and action. They focus on secondary or ensemble figures who would never be given a theatrical feature of their own to carry, are particular about culture and family and place, and are often less contingent on the Marvel Cinematic Universe, with its phases and stages, its crossovers and cross-promotions and long-range marketing plans. At once higher concept and more grounded than the movies, they’re interesting on their own, to the point where, when they finally hitch on to the Marvel multi-mega-serial train, I find them disappointing.
“Wonder Man,” whose eight episodes premiere all at once Tuesday on Disney+, is perhaps the most grounded of these series. Created by Destin Daniel Cretton (“Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings”) and Andrew Guest (who has written for “Community” and “Brooklyn Nine-Nine”), the series is a (generally) sweet, disarming tale of actors in Hollywood, tricked up with picture-business details that you don’t need to be au fait with the MCU to appreciate. There are things it might be helpful to know, but you can work out everything that matters through context. (Locals will enjoy playing Spot the Locations.)
Yahya Abdul-Mateen II plays Simon Williams, who as a child became a fan of a B-movie superhero called Wonder Man — not a “real” superhero, in this reality, merely a fiction. Now in his 30s, he’s a struggling actor in Hollywood, good enough to land a small part in an “American Horror Story” episode, but not clever enough to keep from slowing down the production with questions and suggestions when all he needs to do is deliver a couple of lines before a monster bites his head off. He loses the part and a girlfriend directly afterward.
Taking in a revival house matinee of “Midnight Cowboy,” he meets Trevor Slattery (Ben Kingsley), who is back from having played the Mandarin — that is, he acted the part of a terrorist called the Mandarin, believing it was just a job — in “Iron Man 3” and providing appealing comedy relief in “Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.” The character here is more fleshed out, something of a mess (but 13 years sober, he likes to point out), serious but not a joke. Before it all went wrong, Trevor played King Lear (in Croydon), appeared in “Coronation Street” and in a movie with Glenda Jackson, was off-off-off Broadway in “The Skin Our Teeth” and briefly had the lead in a hospital show with Joe Pantoliano, who’s very funny playing himself.
Trevor Slattery (Ben Kingsley), left, and Simon Williams (Yahya Adbul-Mateen II) team up in “Wonder Man.”
(Suzanne Tenner / Marvel Television)
Slattery tells Simon that European art director Von Kovak (Zlatko Burić) is rebooting Wonder Man, a role Simon feels born to play. He makes an end run around his unconvinced agent, Janelle (X Mayo), and wheedles an audition — where he again meets Trevor, auditioning for Barnaby, Wonder Man’s pal, or sidekick or something. There are wheels behind wheels in this setup, some of which could use a little grease, but for most of the series they do their squeaking off to the side. It’s a love story, above all — “Midnight Cowboy,” not an accidental choice, is more of a touchstone than any Marvel movie.
Simon does have powers — things shake, break or explode around him when he’s upset, and his strength can become super in a tight spot — which puts him in the sights of the Department of Damage Control, embodied by Arian Moayed as P. Cleary, who would like to contain him. But he struggles to keep them secret, especially in light of something called the Doorman Clause — its history established in a sidebar episode, a cautionary Hollywood fable with Josh Gad as himself — which prohibits anyone with super powers from working in film or television, all Simon lives for.
There is little in the way of action, and you won’t miss it. The fate of the world is never in question, but a callback for a second audition means everything. The only costumed characters are actors playing costumed characters; the only villains, apart from the bureaucracy that seeks to bring him in, are Simon’s own self-doubt and temper. As things progress, Trevor will become a mentor to Simon. As is common in stories of love and friendship, a betrayal will be revealed, but if you have seen even a few such stories, you know how that’s going to go, and will be glad it does.
Whether discussing acting techniques or the traffic they’re stuck in on Hollywood Boulevard (Trevor: “Probably the Hollywood Bowl.” Simon: “It’s too late for the Bowl.” Trevor: “It’s usually the Bowl. I remember seeing Cher there once — breathtaking. Chaka Khan, now there’s a woman”), Abdul-Mateen and Kingsley work well together; their energies are complementary, laid back and loose versus worked up and tight and, of course, each will have something to teach one another about who they are and who they could be. I was genuinely anxious for them, as friends, more so than just wondering how such and such a superhero (or team) might defeat such and such a supervillain (or team).
“Our ideas about heroes and gods, they only get in the way,” says Von Kovak, putting a room of hopeful actors through their paces, and essentially speaking for the series he’s in. “Too difficult to comprehend them. Let’s find the human underneath.”
