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‘Daredevil: Born Again’ Season 2 finale: What’s next for Matt Murdock

This story includes spoilers for Episode 8 of “Daredevil: Born Again” Season 2.

By the end of “Daredevil: Born Again’s” first season, showrunner Dario Scardapane knew they were heading toward Matt Murdock’s big reveal in Season 2.

The second season finale of the Marvel series, out now on Disney+, sees Murdock (played by Charlie Cox) declare to the world that he’s the vigilante Daredevil.

“Coming in with Season 1, I wish I could say I knew exactly where we were going,” says Scardapane during a recent video call. “But I knew that moment in the courtroom where Daredevil outs himself, we were definitely heading towards that.”

Iain B. MacDonald, who directed Episodes 7 and 8, said that everybody involved understood that it “was going to be a super significant moment” while they were filming the scene.

“When that’s out, that’s out,” MacDonald says. “That moment clearly has a domino effect for the rest of the episode. … I’m super excited to just to see how that’s received by the fans … because as a director, you want to deal with big moments in what you direct, and that is, for me, one of them.”

A continuation of Netflix’s “Daredevil,” which initially concluded in 2018, “Born Again” has followed Wilson Fisk’s (Vincent D’Onofrio) rise from criminal kingpin to the supposedly reformed mayor of New York. Fisk’s authoritarian tactics and campaign targeting vigilantes pushes Daredevil underground to try to assemble allies in order to bring the Kingpin down.

Matt Murdock in a courtroom

Matt Murdock (Charlie Cox) returned to the courtroom to make his case.

(JoJo Whilden / Marvel)

Their much anticipated showdown occurs in a courtroom in the season finale during the trial of Karen Page (Deborah Ann Woll).

“Myself and my DP [director of photography], Jeffrey Waldron, looked at a lot of courtroom dramas, just to really think about how we can tell those courtroom stories really well, and do it creatively and imaginatively … and in the language of ‘Daredevil,’ ” said MacDonald. “It was a challenge, for sure, [but] I really, really enjoyed shooting them.”

While Murdock may have triumphed in the courtroom, his revelation has consequences as teased in the episode. Scardapane says those consequences will be explored in Season 3.

“That last scene in Season 2 tells you where we’re going,” says Scardapane. “If the question is, are we doing a specific comic book run that is beloved by all, including me, I think that it’s pretty obvious what we’re doing in that last scene.”

The fallout for Murdock, as seen in the episode, is his arrest and imprisonment. In the final moments of the finale, the Man Without Fear is shown getting locked up at Rikers Island. Murdock appears to have accepted his fate, but a glimmer of smile hints that this is not the end of his story.

“Charlie and I talked about [the scene], and we knew that we wanted to end on that close-up of his face,” MacDonald says. “He said we can do two things here, one which is like acceptance of circumstances, like he’s resigned. He has made the sacrifice of outing himself to the world about who he really is [and] he has put himself away in service of the greater good … as well as have that little moment of a hint of a smile to say, this is a beginning. This is a new adventure. This is a new challenge.”

In a conversation edited for clarity and length, Scardapane discussed Murdock and Fisk’s arcs in Season 2, “Daredevil: Born Again’s” timely political themes and what to expect in Season 3.

Karen Page and Matt Murdock sitting at a restaurant table surrounded by lights

Karen Page (Deborah Ann Woll) and Matt Murdock (Charlie Cox) get a chance to celebrate in the “Daredevil: Born Again” Season 2 finale.

(JoJo Whilden / Marvel)

At what point did you know that what you were building toward in Season 2 would end with Matt Murdock in jail?

It’s kind of a process that snowballs. They had started before me. They were doing the Mayor Fisk run. It was much more procedural, much different tone. They did six episodes, and I came in, and we moved it more in line as a continuation of the Netflix series. When Fisk becomes the mayor of New York, you put the villain at a really, really elevated place. So, Season 1 was the rise of Fisk. Season 2 has got to be the rise of that which takes him down — the resistance.

That moment that Matt stands up in court and says, “I am Daredevil,” that’s like the record scratch. Everything has changed from this moment on. At the end of Season 1, beginning of Season 2, we knew we were heading toward that moment. That moment’s consequences, for Matt and for Fisk, are kind of the fodder for Season 3.

There are comic book runs that I shall not name — although they’ve been named — that take that dilemma that Matt put himself in and go to really great places with it. Coming in with Season 1, I wish I could say I knew exactly where we were going. But I knew at the very beginning, that moment in the courtroom where Daredevil outs himself, we were definitely heading toward that.

It felt significant that Matt and Fisk’s big showdown this season happened in a courtroom.

The fun of Daredevil since the comics started is here you have a lawyer who really believes in the justice system who goes out and breaks bones at night. He’s a vigilante lawyer. That’s such a dichotomy. When the villain takes power, when the villain is the police — this situation, the villain is the Anti-Vigilante Task Force — the villain has now become the power structure of New York and has become the justice system. How does Matt fight back? He fights back as a vigilante until it gets to a crucial moment where Karen is pulled into this flawed justice system. Now there’s nowhere he could go. He’s put in this place where both his personas have to integrate, have to kind of collide, for him to beat Fisk. I think that Charlie’s performance in that courtroom scene is his best courtroom performance in any episode of “Daredevil” ever. Building to that moment of Fisk and Matt facing off in court, it was pretty important because all four of them are in court there: Wilson Fisk, Kingpin, Matt Murdock and Daredevil are all there in that scene.

Wilson Fisk in a white suit sitting at a desk

Wilson Fisk’s (Vincent D’Onofrio) ambitions are thwarted in “Daredevil: Born Again” Season 2.

(JoJo Whilden / Marvel)

Fisk, the villain, ultimately loses this battle. Can you speak a bit about his arc this season?

One of the joys of this job is working with Vincent D’Onofrio, full stop. He’s done such a good job of humanizing a monster. I don’t write Fisk as a villain. I don’t think Vincent plays him as a villain. And that’s where the fun comes in.

Building up a man whose appetite, whose isolation, whose just general hunger to dominate, making that character and then giving him this one lifeline to humanity in Vanessa — that’s all calculated. We knew in Season 1 when Foggy was killed that Vanessa was going to be the cost for Fisk. The idea that Vanessa set up Foggy to die using Bullseye, and Bullseye ended up inadvertently killing Vanessa, that was 100% in the DNA from jump. Vanessa passed away in the comic books in two different ways, but that takes Fisk now into a place where, for me, all bets are off. I think that the Fisk that Vincent is playing in Episode 6, 7 and 8 and beyond are a different animal entirely. We just finished a very special episode that is pretty much all Fisk in this new incarnation and it was pretty exciting. Vincent’s in rare form in Season 3.

I understand that the Anti-Vigilante Task Force stuff was shot before the the story and imagery became extremely timely.

It’s really strange because there’s footage in the finale that’s intentionally supposed to reflect certain events. One of the things that I really wanted to do with this story, when you’re dealing with politics and everything, is we’re living in a time where these values of mutual respect, mutual listening, mutual live and let live … what I would say, democratic values are being thrown out the window when you’re dealing with the other side. If somebody doesn’t share your beliefs, it’s free game. And I’ve never really seen a time like that. So we took that story, where the mayor’s side has no quarter for the vigilante side and the vigilante side has no quarter for the mayor’s side. When they storm the rotunda, it looks very familiar. That is intentional. I’m not going to dodge that. Because it’s the idea that everybody sees themselves as a hero of this story, where they’re treating the people on the other side horribly. There’s no lesson there. It’s just the idea that when mobs get involved, when large groups of people get involved, the higher morals and higher sense of humanity falls apart.

You’ve mentioned that in writing and filming this show, you were looking at history. But what was it like when the present started mirroring what you already made based on the past?

The sequence in Episode 2, when the bodega is raided and people are dragged away by the Anti-Vigilante Task Force, that was filmed before Los Angeles, before Minnesota — before all of it. The whole thing got really strange in that the real world started to feel cartoony, and I don’t mean that in a positive way.

I think we were, as writers and directors, tapping into an unease and a malaise that’s just out there. Having it look exactly like things that then happened on the news, that was chilling. It was really hard to get my head around it. It was hard for the people involved, the directors, the fact that some of those sequences in our show, of people being dragged away and thrown into vans, looked exactly like what we were seeing on the news.

There have been other touch points, like the affinity some Task Force officers have for the Punisher logo, that crosses from the fictional into reality.

I’ve been wrestling with this since working on “The Punisher.” The map of what you do when you want to be an autocrat: You form a militia, you empower them beyond, you target a group that you want to make scapegoats, you round them up. When Charles Soule was doing the Mayor Fisk run in the comic books, that’s what he was thinking about. S—, Tony Gilroy did it in “Andor.” When you build any kind of story about an autocrat, it follows the same script. Weirdly, the script’s now playing out outside our door, and that’s become really hard to deal with. The funny thing about this show in these times is, no matter what I say, somebody’s gonna get all like, “Oh, they put politics in our comics” and “they’re trying to teach us a lesson.” Nobody’s trying to teach you a lesson. We’re just laying out a story about a guy who’s a criminal who becomes a mayor and a guy who’s a lawyer who tries to take him down. But does that have echoes in what’s going on outside our window? Yes, it does.

There is a sect of the audience that gets very vocal about the MCU getting too woke or comic books and superheroes becoming political.

One thing that just broke me when we started Season 3, I posted a picture of our writers room, and it’s just some of the best genre writers in the television business. I posted it [on Instagram] and I said “so stoked to get into it with these guys.” The first comment was, “Looks like a pretty woke room. Don’t ruin the show.” How does a room look woke? Oh, so you’re looking at the makeup of the people in that room, and you’re saying that that is something you don’t like? I can’t help you [with that]. I’ve just got to go into that room and write stories.

It’s also not like superhero comic books haven’t had storylines about marginalized communities or interrogating people in power.

Guys, comic books are political. They’ve always been political. The first graphic novel that ever won a Pulitzer Prize was “Maus.”

Jessica Jones stands near a masked mob

Jessica Jones (Krysten Ritter) gets in on the action.

(JoJo Whilden / Marvel)

I think I’ve waited long enough to ask about Luke Cage, played by Mike Colter, showing up in the finale. How did all of that come together?

One of the things that I’ve said a bunch about this show is we lean into the idea that these characters have grown up. The time that has passed between the end of the Netflix shows and the beginning of this show, we acknowledge and we lean into. Their lives have matured. As anybody knows, in the comics, Luke and Jessica had a child, Danielle. Now for me, as a writer, that’s just great story. We have a family of two very interesting people who were made iconic by the performances of Krysten Ritter and Mike Colter. What does that little family look like moving forward? So that tease at the end has seeds for acres and acres of stories. There’s a world that I’m super interested in, that a lot of the characters from the Netflix shows live in, that I’d love to see go forward. A lot of that’s out of my hands. But Mike and Jessica and that family are important to these stories.

Can you say anything more about what Luke has been up to since audiences last saw him?

Luke went to do some work for Mr. Charles. That’s a little bit of an Easter egg, a storyline that will play out in the future. Mr. Charles’s interest in alternatively abled people, or people who can do special things, that interest has long tentacles. It touched Luke and Jessica. It touches Bullseye at the end of the season, and that moves forward.

I think everybody’s been curious since Charlie Cox’s return. Matt’s back. Now Jessica and Luke are back. Are we going to see all of the Netflix era heroes assembled?

The best way I can answer that question is that we take comic book runs, fan desires and unfinished business. On “Punisher,” we were planning for a Season 3. I know [“Daredevil” showrunner] Erik Oleson was getting ready to work on a Season 4. That all ended very abruptly. None of the shows really got an ending that brought it all together. I wouldn’t say that “Defenders” was an ending that brought it all together. There’s so much unfinished business in those Netflix shows. We definitely, definitely knew from way back, how the ending of the Mayor Fisk rise and fall, where that was going to go next. And it’s funny because I’m talking to you as we’re trying to end where it goes next, and we’re thinking about, “OK, now what happens after that?”

I’m just going to throw it out there that I’d like to see Misty Knight and Colleen Wing back also.

[Jessica Henwick, who plays] Colleen has already said that she is not in Season 3, and that’s a real sad thing for us. It was not for lack of trying. I want to do Daughters of the Dragon, come on! That was teed up in “The Defenders.”

I wish I could be more forthright, but I have to save some some secrets for Season 3. But I do believe that we set a launching pad at the end of Season 2 that takes us into some pretty fun places that we’re in right now, and I gotta go finish that.



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World Snooker Championship 2026: Wu Yize & Mark Allen set up thrilling finale to semi-final

Wu Yize and Mark Allen produced a session of spellbinding snooker and finished locked at 11-11 to perfectly set up the final session of their World Championship semi-final at the Crucible Theatre.

Resuming at 7-7 on Saturday, the third session of the match was a complete contrast to their epic slugfest on Friday, that produced the longest frame ever played at the famous venue.

China’s Wu set the tone, opening with a sublime 142 and also constructing breaks of 76 and 121 to lead 10-8 at the mid-session interval.

However, Allen, who is attempting to become the first player from Northern Ireland to reach the final since Dennis Taylor in 1985, showed he had also thrown off the shackles of negativity.

The 40-year-old enjoyed a run of 56, and well-crafted breaks of 85 and 99 enabled him to draw level at 10-10.

Wu, 22, who defeated Lei Peifan, Mark Selby and Hossein Vafaei to reach the last four, responded with his third century of the day.

But as the tension increased, in what felt like an important concluding frame to the session, Wu was unable to capitalise after getting the first opportunity.

That allowed Allen, who could become the oldest first-time winner at the Crucible, to make a couple of useful contributions and ensure there was nothing to divide the pair.

They return to play the final session of their best-of-33 encounter at 19:00 BST on Saturday, with a possible 11 frames still to get through, as they attempt to set up a title match against John Higgins or Shaun Murphy.

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Tyler Glasnow throws eight shutout innings as Dodgers salvage finale

The Dodgers tout Yoshinobu Yamamoto as a Cy Young award contender, and every one of his starts has been a quality start, including the one he made here Tuesday.

The Dodgers talk up Shohei Ohtani as a Cy Young award contender, and Ohtani has given up one run all season. He pitched six shutout innings here Wednesday.

But the pitcher who delivered the best start of this series against the San Francisco Giants, and the one that stood tall between the Giants and what would have been a humiliating sweep, was Tyler Glasnow.

That was one storyline from an eventful afternoon at the ballpark and, for the Dodgers, a sorely needed 3-0 victory on a day they found themselves a new cleanup hitter, a new closer — and on a day a Giants player blasted a Dodgers player for making a “dirty” play.

Nothing like a little bad blood to breathe a little life into a languishing rivalry.

The cleanup hitter: Kyle Tucker, dropped from second to fourth in the lineup after his average had fallen to .233, ignited a two-run rally in the fourth inning with a double and delivered his first two-hit game in 17 days.

The closer: Tanner Scott, just as the Dodgers planned last year. After Glasnow pitched eight shutout innings and gave up one hit, Scott got the first save situation since the Dodgers lost closer Edwin Díaz to elbow surgery. Scott has a 0.84 ERA this season, including the perfect ninth inning he worked Thursday for the first of what might be quite a few saves this season.

The Dodgers (17-8), remember, signed him for $72 million as their closer last season, but he lost his job and did not pitch in the playoffs.

“It was terrible,” he said. “But I washed it away.”

The “dirty” play was the second of two acts in a sixth-inning drama.

On Tuesday, cameras caught Dodgers catcher Dalton Rushing muttering something after looking back at the Giants’ Jung Hoo Lee, who was in discomfort after an awkward slide at home plate. Rushing had tagged out Lee and was headed back to the dugout when he turned back to see Lee on the ground, then kept going.

Rushing did not play Wednesday. On Thursday, in his third plate appearance, Rushing was hit by a pitch from San Francisco starter Logan Webb.

Webb dodged a question about whether the pitch was a response to the thing that happened with Rushing and Lee.

“What thing with Jung Hoo?” Webb said. He simply described the pitch as “fastball, inside.”

Said Rushing: “I like getting on base. Whatever works. If it was intentional, I’ll take it. I’ll take what I deserve. I’ve cleared the air with all of that. I’ve made sure Jung Hoo is good and healthy.”

When the following batter, Hyeseong Kim, grounded to second baseman Luis Arraez, Rushing threw up his hands and slid away from the base to try and prevent shortstop Willy Adames from completing the double play.

The second-base umpire pointed at Rushing and awarded the Giants with the double play. The first-base umpire ruled the Giants had completed the double play anyway, since Adames’ throw beat Kim to first base.

“For me, that’s not good baseball,” Arraez said. “It’s dirty.”

Rushing said the slide was not his response to getting hit.

“I was taught that in college,” he said. “That’s kind of the way you go in, especially when you have a speedster like that with Hyeseong behind me. You’re not going four or five feet outside the bag. You stay within the body length and try to break up a double play. Nothing against any of those guys right there.”

Did Dodgers manager Dave Roberts believe Webb’s pitch was intentional?

“It probably was,” Roberts said. “For me, he [Rushing] said what he said. I don’t think he meant it too personally. But they see it, social media catches it, Webb is an old-school guy. He’s protecting his teammates. I’ve got no problem with it.”

Roberts said he saw nothing wrong with Rushing’s slide.

“I like that too,” Roberts said. “That’s baseball. They’re going to hit you. You know, Webb has got really good command. I get it. They’ll deny it. I like the way he went in hard. No problem. That’s nothing against Adames, but he went in hard and they turned a double play. That’s good baseball — good, hard-nosed baseball.”

And winning baseball, for a happy flight after a mediocre trip. The Dodgers concluded a 3-4 trip to Colorado and San Francisco, the teams projected to finish in the bottom two spots in the National League West. Up next: the Chicago Cubs, winners of nine consecutive games.

Glasnow faced one batter over the minimum over his eight innings. The one hit he allowed was a single. He struck out nine. His ERA is 2.45, with Yamamoto at 2.48.

Roberts said the combination of Glasnow’s evolving maturity — his ability to respond to setbacks and challenges — makes him a legitimate Cy Young candidate.

“Now, for me, he’s going to be in that conversation,” Roberts said. “And I think for me, that was the missing piece. You know you’re not going to feel great every outing. There’s going to be stress, there’s going to be things that you can’t control, and you got to be able to manage it. And I think now he’s equipped mentally to do that.”

There is one thing Glasnow has yet to accomplish. The Dodgers decided a season-high 105 pitches from an oft-injured pitcher was enough this early in the year.

However, this could have been his big chance: In 133 major league starts and 130 minor league starts, he never has pitched a complete game.

“That,” Glasnow said, “would be sick.”

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‘Shrinking’ Season 3 finale explained: Jason Segel on being ‘Jimmy-ed’

The third season of Apple TV’s “Shrinking” concludes with Jimmy (Jason Segel) being, well, “Jimmy-ed.”

For three seasons, Jimmy, a therapist grieving the loss of his wife, has used unconventional methods —think taking someone with aggression issues to a boxing ring — to get through to his patients. In the last moments of “And That’s Our Time,” Jimmy’s mentor and fellow therapist Paul (Harrison Ford) turns that approach on its namesake, flying across the country to give Jimmy a much needed push to move forward with his life. “Jimmy needed permission and encouragement from someone to say, ‘All right, it’s time,’” Segel says. “This is the end of this story and it’s time to start a new one.”

In the scene, Paul finally tells Jimmy he’s like a son to him. “I found ourselves writing a conversation that if we were lucky enough to have a conversation like that with our own fathers, we’d be grateful,” executive producer Bill Lawrence says. “A lot of my shows have an element of mentorship in them. To see Jimmy’s mentor come through for him in the way that I would always hope he would meant a lot to me.”

Lawrence had always envisioned the three-season arc for Jimmy ending this way. But when they found out the comedy would be returning for a fourth season, he and his fellow executive producers were faced with a dilemma: End the season the way they would have the series or push their original ending out for one more season. After much discussion, they decided to stick the landing.

“It still felt right,” Lawrence says. “This particular story with these characters has been told and you should feel, in a good way, like it’s gonna be OK for Jimmy. Jason is so good at it, watching him play the agony of trying to get through it all and come out on the other side was my favorite kind of journey on the whole show.”

Segel spoke to The Envelope about filming this pivotal scene and bringing the third season to a close.

What did filming this final scene mean to you? To play this part of Jimmy’s journey coming to an end?

I’m always really interested in, “What is the dirty underneath? If we go one level deeper, what is the thing that the person is not saying?” This arc with Jimmy over the three seasons had been building up to Jimmy finally saying the actual thing, which is some version of, “Who’s gonna want me now?”

Paul answers that question by telling Jimmy that his scars are “evidence of a life welllived.”

I had a therapist I was talking to about having to show up somewhere with people I knew from 25 years ago. I remember having a little bit of apprehension because I’ve had a twisty-turny life. I thought, “God, there’s so much to catch up on and I’m showing up covered in scars.” And this therapist said to me, just matter of fact, “What a shame it would be to show up anywhere at 45 years old not covered in scars.” And I went straight to Bill and [executive producer] Neil [Goldman], this is a year ago, and I said, “This is what Harrison says to Jimmy at the end of this arc.” And we worked it in.

What was the actual day of filming the scene like for you?

It was a difficult day. It was loud that day. There was a little bit of discombobulation on the street. There was construction and they couldn’t hold the cars right. It wasn’t the ideal environment for a scene like this where you would love to hear a pin drop. People were coming into the restaurant asking, “Are you guys open?” It almost felt like we were making a student film. And Harrison and I took a minute and we walked away from the set and we started running the scene, walking up and down the busy street to kind of acclimate ourselves. And I’m walking up and down the street with this man who I idolize and we are at that moment like equals and teammates. We have to go build this scene together. It is a real honor to have that dynamic with him.

Do you think it was important to have such a pivotal scene outdoors?

They’re a good reminder that the show takes place in the real world and that you’re like a representative of reality almost. I think that there’s something vulnerable about all that taking place outside. … There’s other patrons there. It’s surrounded by people, surrounded by life, and Paul is showing up and telling Jimmy, “It’s time to step into it. Look, it’s all around you.”

This season we met Jimmy’s father (played by Jeff Daniels), who never really connected with his son and, in a heartbreaking moment, chooses a fishing trip with his buddies over staying for Alice’s (Lukita Maxwell) high school graduation.

One of the things this show does really well is handle these situations honestly. Whether it’s Parkinson’s or loss or a complicated relationship with a family member. It’s not gonna magically change. None of it. And so the show is very much true to, “How do we get through it with each other?” That’s really the theme of the show. These issues are gonna be there. What are we gonna do with the realities of life? I think the reason they brought Jeff Daniels in is to highlight why Jimmy so desperately wants Paul’s affection. Where is this coming from? Bill is a genius in terms of setting something up in a previous episode so that there’s a payoff in the finale. I think that we understand suddenly how desperate Jimmy is to have somebody say, “You’re my son and I love you.” And he finally gets that at the end from Paul.

The other major event that happens in the finale is that Alice leaves for college.

To me, [Jimmy’s relationship with Alice] has been the heart of the show and the most important storyline. The show started out with Alice parenting a troubled child in her father. And that dynamic slowly, slowly, slowly shifted to being the right direction. Until finally he is able to see her off to college and she feels safe to leave him behind. He is the parent and she is the child and everything is the right size again. I think watching Lukita as an actor and a human being grow up over these past four years, it’s been really the joy of my career. When I met her, she called me Mr. Segel. I realized she grew up with my “Muppet” movie. I have the real honor of being more of a mentor than a contemporary to Lukita. To get to the point where I am being surprised and challenged and blown away and moved to tears in scenes with Lukita is like the coolest thing in the world.

A woman and a man seated outside at a cafe.

Cobie Smulders and Jason Segel in “Shrinking.”

(Apple TV)

We see Jimmy sit down at the restaurant with his potential love interest Sofi (Cobie Smulders), but we don’t hear their conversation.

It originally ended with a hard cut to black. Then then they did this beautiful cinematic pullback. I think the most important line is, “Hello.”

As the scene ends, Paul tells Jimmy that he can either “stay stuck” or “go make new scars.” Paul advises Jimmy to “choose wisely” and then winks at Jimmy. It’s a subtle nod to the famous “choose wisely” scene from “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.”

Harrison is not so secretly one of the funnier people I know. He always knows exactly what he’s doing and we’ve had a few of those throughout the season, some little nods to Harrison’s body of work. It was a perfect way to end that scene. Paul slash Harrison is always just a little smarter than you. One of the great qualities that they have is they’re just a little bit ahead of you, which a great mentor should be, right?

Have you thought about how it will be to play Jimmy in the show’s fourth season now that this particular story arc has come to an end?

I think an equally interesting and complicated and fun area is someone deciding they’re ready to be happy. Because God knows it’s one thing in your house alone in front of the mirror [to say], “Now I’m gonna be happy.” And then you go out and in practice, it’s its own set of complications, right? And so, I’m actually really excited about that idea of someone saying, “OK, I’m ready to take it for a spin.” And then seeing that’s its own thing.

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