The incident occurred during Philadelphia’s 109-108 loss to the Boston Celtics on Friday when Embiid, 31, scored while getting fouled and then made a chopping gesture to his groin.
Embiid has been fined for the gesture on multiple previous occasions.
In a post on X,, external which also contained the NBA’s social media post detailing his sanction, Embiid appeared to suggest the gesture was similar to a signal that officials make when calling a foul for blocking.
He said: “Yall better start fining the refs for doing the ‘lewd’, ‘blocking foul’ gesture since I’m not allowed to do it.”
Cameroon-born Embiid did not play in Sunday’s 129-105 victory over the Brooklyn Nets, sitting out the match as he continues to manage his recovery from a knee injury which required surgery earlier this year.
Joel R Mogy Investment Counsel (JMIC) disclosed in an October 16, 2025, SEC filing that it sold 20,929 Adobe shares during Q3 2025.
This was an estimated $7.51 million trade based on the average price for Q3 2025.
What happened
Joel R Mogy Investment Counsel reported a reduction in its position in Adobe(ADBE 1.30%), selling 20,929 shares during Q3 2025.
The estimated value of the sale, based on the average closing price for Q3 2025, was approximately $7.51 million.
The position now stands at 50,664 shares as of Q3 2025, according to the firm’s SEC Form 13-F filed on October 16, 2025.
What else to know
The fund’s post-sale Adobe stake represents 0.98% of its $1.83 billion reportable U.S. equity AUM as of September 30, 2025, down from 1.60% in the previous period
JMIC’s top holdings after the filing:
Nvidia: $257.28 million (14.1% of AUM) as of September 30, 2025
Alphabet: $158.37 million (8.68% of AUM) as of September 30, 2025
Apple: $155.49 million (8.52% of AUM) as of September 30, 2025
Microsoft: $148.56 million (8.14% of AUM) as of September 30, 2025
Costco Wholesale: $91.43 million (5.0% of AUM)
As of October 15, 2025, Adobe shares were priced at $330.63, marking a one-year decline of 34.9% and underperforming the S&P 500 by 49 percentage points.
Company Overview
Metric
Value
Revenue (TTM)
$23.18 billion
Net Income (TTM)
$6.96 billion
Price (as of market close 10/15/25)
$330.63
One-Year Price Change
-34.92%
Company Snapshot
Adobe offers software solutions, including Creative Cloud, Document Cloud, and a suite of digital experience and publishing tools; primary revenue is generated through recurring subscription services.
It operates a cloud-based, subscription-driven business model, selling directly to enterprises and end users as well as through a global partner network.
The company serves content creators, marketers, enterprises, and creative professionals across industries worldwide.
Adobe Inc. is a leading global software company specializing in creative, document, and digital experience solutions.
Foolish take
Joel R Mogy Investment Counsel (JMIC) had been steadily accumulating shares over the last few years, with the firm having a 2.5% portfolio allocation in Adobe just two years ago.
However, the company has sold shares of Adobe in the last two quarters — and heavily in its latest quarter.
With Adobe’s stock down 52% from its all-time high, it certainly seems as though JMIC is worried about the long-term future of the company.
Adobe has become an artificial intelligence (AI) battleground stock lately. The market seems torn as to whether the AI revolution will empower — or completely disrupt — the company’s creative operations.
For instance, OpenAI recently launched its Sora 2 model that lets users create short video clips from text. It doesn’t take a wild leap to imagine how this could directly hinder Adobe’s video editing and software businesses.
That said, Adobe has grown sales by 11% over the last year and is seeing the professional use cases for its video capabilities remain as robust as ever. Furthermore, the company has its Adobe Firefly unit, which is its own generative AI offering for creators — so it’s not exactly being blindsided by peers like OpenAI.
Trading at just 15 times free cash flow, Adobe could be a tremendous value investment at today’s price, but it looks like JMIC doesn’t want to risk waiting to find out if the company gets disrupted or not.
Glossary
AUM (Assets Under Management): The total market value of all investments managed by a fund or investment firm. Form 13-F: A quarterly SEC filing by institutional investment managers disclosing their equity holdings. Q3: The third quarter of a company’s fiscal year, typically covering July through September. Reportable U.S. equity assets: U.S. stocks and related securities that must be disclosed in regulatory filings. Top holdings: The largest individual investments in a fund’s portfolio, usually ranked by market value. Stake: The ownership interest or number of shares a fund or investor holds in a company. Subscription-driven business model: A model where customers pay recurring fees for ongoing access to products or services. Global partner network: A group of companies or organizations worldwide that help distribute or sell a firm’s products. TTM: The 12-month period ending with the most recent quarterly report.
Josh Kohn-Lindquist has positions in Adobe, Alphabet, Costco Wholesale, and Nvidia. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Adobe, Alphabet, Apple, Costco Wholesale, Microsoft, and Nvidia. The Motley Fool recommends the following options: long January 2026 $395 calls on Microsoft and short January 2026 $405 calls on Microsoft. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
Just one week after Max Branning’s return – another legend will be returning as Ben Mitchell makes his surprise return to the soap for Jonno Highway’s funeral
Ben returns to EastEnders next week(Image: CREDIT LINE:BBC/Jack Barns/Kieron McCarron)
If the return of Max Branning wasn’t enough, EastEnders are giving us yet another legendary return next week, as its time for Ben Mitchell (Max Bowden) to return.
Earlier this year, it was revealed that Ben, along with Stuart Highway (Ricky Champ) would be making a return for Jonno Highway’s funeral. But of course, with Callum’s recent fling with Johnny – there’s sure to be drama.
The Mitchells gather for the occasion at the start of the week, in which Callum tells Johnny it’s best to stay away to avoid suspicion. The pair then kiss, but Ben’s mum Kathy Beale secretly spots them. Phil, Kathy, Billy, Honey, Ian and Harvey collectively confront Callum, but things take a turn when he hits them with some home truths and tells Johnny he’s serious about the relationship – and asks him to the funeral.
The Mitchells then tell Callum he needs to reveal all to Lexi and Ben after the funeral, but Callum gets the shock of his life when Ben turns up to the funeral unannounced.
Johnny and Stuart work hard to keep the truth under wraps during the funeral, but things get too much for Callum back at The Vic when Callum reasons he must tell Ben after Johnny tells him to keep quiet. But will he tell Ben and if so, how will he react?
As we know, Ben was sent to prison in the US, but next week, it will be revealed that he was transferred to a UK prison for turning informant on his cellmate and granted release for the funeral. It was said Ben’s return was only for a short stint, but could it end up being longer in the future?
Across the other side of the Square, Joel Marshall’s storyline takes the darkest turn yet – as he turns violent towards his stepmother Vicki Fowler.
An incident at school started by Joel and Tommy, raises debate in Walford as parents and their teens discuss the ramifications of the event, and the impact of harmful content online.
Kat, Alife, Ross and Vicki attempt to police Joel and Tommy on their misogynistic views, but things take a horrific turn and escalate when Joel hits Vicki…
Elsewhere, Priya, Ravi, Avani and Nugget reluctantly move back into No.41, sale as Suki attempts to build bridges with her family, and later meets Eve for a drink. To Suki’s shock, Eve reveals that she wants to adopt a baby with Suki.
Priya then spies Suki looking up information about adoption, and the family pass judgement – but will they go through with it?
As we know, Balvinder Sopal, who plays Suki, is currently taking part in Strictly Come Dancing. The actress has revealed she isn’t leaving the soap, but working on a “reduced schedule” while she takes part in the competition.
There’s fear for Kojo as he collapses yet again, as Harry realises he is still working for Ravi and Okie. Harry’s forced to turn to his dad Teddy for help as he attempts to catch Ravi and Okie out…
EastEnders airs Mondays to Thursdays at 7:30pm on BBC One and BBC iPlayer.
Hannah Cooper is TV presenter Joel Dommett’s wifeCredit: Getty
4
Joel is hosting the National Television Awards for the fifth consecutive year in 2025Credit: ITV
Who is Joel Dommett’s wife Hannah Cooper?
British model Hannah Cooper met husband Joel Dommett when she drunkenly messaged him with a cat emoji on Instagram, shortly after he appeared on I’m A Celeb in 2016.
Discussing the wedding with OK! in February 2020, Joel said: “It was honestly so fun.
“I was fully prepared to say it was the best day of my life and pretend it was — because I’ve been lucky enough to do Bake Off and I’ve had these amazing experiences in my life — but it was genuinely the best day of my life!
Joel Dommett reveals huge NTA’s shake-up that will shock fans
“We had 28 people there. Some people have weddings where half the day is saying hi and bye to people.
“I wanted our closest friends and family to have a wonderful time.”
Not long after they began dating, Joel released a memoir – It’s Not Me It’s Them: Confessions Of A Hopeless Modern Romance – which charts romantic encounters with 40 women before he met Hannah.
The mum guilt thing is real, definitely, and if I’m not feeling guilty, then Joel will be feeling guilty, so we’re probably not that helpful to each other.
Speaking to The Sun about being a mum for the first time, Hannah told us: “The mum guilt thing is real, definitely, and if I’m not feeling guilty, then Joel will be feeling guilty, so we’re probably not that helpful to each other.
“There are times when he’ll say, ‘I’ll look after Wilde. Go out and have fun’. Then he’ll send me a message saying, ‘Look at this photo of Wilde’, and I’ll go, ‘Damn it, I was in the zone with the girls’.
“It is difficult managing it but you’ve got to switch off and take an hour for yourself, then you’ll feel better for it.”
Talking about the possibility of another child, she added: “I really would love to, but Joel before was like, ‘one is good’.
“One means we’re in control, and we can totally manage that.
“But now Wilde is here, I would totally love another one.
“I feel like Joel is Wilde’s sibling. I feel like there is enough fun in the house, and there is enough drama and energy going on.”
Joel Dommett’s career so far
Joel started out as an actor, landing small roles in shows including Casualty, Inspector Lynley and Skins.
But the funnyman has also presented or taken part in other big shows, such as:
Opening up on fronting this year’s ceremony, he said: “The NTAs are 30 years old and the party planning starts here!
“Star guests? Check. All our best-loved shows? Check. My payment? Cheque. Join us at London’s O2 to mark this extra special evening!”
And on what he thinks about 2025’s prize shortlist, he added: “It’s the best the shortlist has ever been since I’ve hosted it. I genuinely don’t know which way it’s going to go.
“That’s what’s really exciting about the NTAs — it’s shows, those things that are loved by the public.
“It’s not decided by a panel or a committee. It’s the people at home — it’s what they like, it’s what they watch.”
Billy Joel reassured fans about his health on Monday.
The 76-year-old musician had previously canceled all of his scheduled concerts after announcing in May that he was diagnosed with normal pressure hydrocephalus (NPH). NPH occurs when excess cerebrospinal fluid accumulates in the brain’s ventricles, with patients experiencing cognitive decline, difficulty walking and urinary incontinence, according to the Alzheimer’s Assn.
Joel’s recent concert performances worsened his symptoms, leading to hearing, vision and balance problems, he shared in a May 23 statement. While on Bill Maher’s podcast, “Club Random,” the “Piano Man” crooner said he often feels like he’s on a boat, but otherwise, he’s doing just fine.
“I feel good,” Joel said, seated at a piano. “They keep referring to what I have as a brain disorder so it sounds a lot worse than what I’m feeling.”
Joel noted that the condition is idiopathic, meaning no one knows the cause.
“I thought it must be from drinking,” he said, adding that he doesn’t drink anymore. “I used to, like a fish.”
Joel finished his decade-long residency at Madison Square Garden in July 2024 after 104 monthly shows at the venue. His now-canceled tour included dates across the U.S. and performances with Stevie Nicks, Rod Stewart and Sting.
The first installment of Joel’s documentary, “Billy Joel: And So It Goes,” premiered Friday on HBO. The two-part series takes a deep dive into the pianist’s journey from a bullied kid in Long Island to a legendary hitmaker, and features appearances from Paul McCartney, Bruce Springsteen, Pink and Sting.
Part 1 “is notable in how it reframes the narrative around his relationship with his former wife and manager Elizabeth Weber, explaining how she was instrumental in guiding his career and helping him become a superstar — and how songs like ‘Big Shot’ and ‘Stiletto’ were inspired by the rocky times in their marriage,” wrote Times television editor Maira Garcia. “It’s a compelling and nuanced portrait of an imperfect person who created timeless music and whose influence continues to reverberate.”
Part 2 of “And So It Goes” premieres Friday on HBO and HBO Max.
Billy Joel’s life is awash in revelations these days — some bad, some worse.
Last month, the “Only the Good Die Young” singer-songwriter canceled all his upcoming concerts, revealing he was struggling with a brain disorder that causes a potentially reversible kind of dementia. Then last week, he divulged that he attempted suicide twice in his 20s after falling in love with his bandmate’s wife and causing the downfall of the band itself.
“I felt very, very guilty about it. They had a child. I felt like a homewrecker,” Joel says (via People) in the first half of the two-part documentary “Billy Joel: And So It Goes,” which premiered last Wednesday and hits HBO Max in July. “I was just in love with a woman and I got punched in the nose, which I deserved.”
Joel said both he and his friend and Attila bandmate, Jon Small, were upset by what happened while Joel was living with Small and Small’s then-wife, Elizabeth Weber. So upset that Attila — a Led Zeppelin-inspired metal band, according to the New York Times — broke up and Joel started boozing, which sent him into a tailspin.
“I had no place to live,” Joel says in the documentary. “I was sleeping in laundromats, and I was depressed, I think to the point of almost being psychotic. So I figured, ‘That’s it. I don’t want to live anymore.’”
Suicide prevention and crisis counseling resources
If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, seek help from a professional and call 9-8-8. The United States’ first nationwide three-digit mental health crisis hotline 988 will connect callers with trained mental health counselors. Text “HOME” to 741741 in the U.S. and Canada to reach the Crisis Text Line.
He tried twice to end his life in the early 1970s, according to the documentary. First, he took the entire lot of sleeping pills that his sister, then a medical assistant, had given him to help him sleep. That put him in the hospital.
“He was in a coma for days and days and days,” Judy Molinari says in the program. She thought she had killed her brother.
Joel says in the doc that he woke up in the hospital still suicidal, hoping to do it “right” the next time. His sister said he wound up drinking “lemon Pledge” furniture polish. That time, an unlikely person took him to the hospital: Small, his then-estranged best friend.
“Eventually,” Small says in the documentary, “I forgave him.”
As for those impulses to harm himself, they wound up paying off for Joel after he checked out of a facility he had checked himself into after the second suicide attempt.
“I got out of the observation ward and I thought to myself, you can utilize all those emotions to channel that stuff into music.”
Joel reconnected with Weber about a year after that, wrote about her in the 1973 song “Piano Man,” and married her from then until 1982. Marriages to Christie Brinkley, Katie Lee and current wife Alexis Roderick would follow.
The first part of the documentary covers Joel’s childhood and runs through his 1982 motorcycle accident, according to the New York Times. He doesn’t meet his “Uptown Girl,” Brinkley, until Part 2.
It’s set to be a jam packed week in EastEnders next week – as Joel Marshall’s storyline takes a dark turn – with Kat and Alfie left fearing for their son Tommy
Joel is questioned by police next week as he continues his sick ways (Image: CREDIT LINE:BBC/Jack Barnes/Kieron McCarron)
Fans can prepare for yet another jam packed week in EastEnders next week – as teen Joel Marshall‘s storyline takes it’s darkest turn yet.
Ever since Joel Marshall arrived on the Square earlier this year, it’s been bad news. His secrets were slowly revealed, but it became evident he hadn’t changed his ways after secretly filming his intimate moment with Avani Nandra-Hart. Now, things are set to take a criminal turn.
In recent weeks, Joel has been seen trying to get Kat and Alfie’s son Tommy involved in his wrongdoings, and next week, he leaves him horrified with his actions when he assaults a stranger on the tube.
Alfie is set to make a shock exit to visit Spencer in Australia (Image: CREDIT LINE:BBC/Jack Barnes/Kieron McCarron)
The duo are set to travel on the tube home, when Joel asks Tommy to film him. With no ideas of his intentions, Tommy is left is horrified when he witnesses Joel pretending to fall on fellow passenger, Isla, who he touches inappropriately.
Isla then reports Joel to staff, as he’s immediately apprehended – leaving Ross and Vicki horrified. With Ross demanding answers, Vicki is supportive of Isla’s decision to report Joel. However, later on, she meets up with Isla and offers her money to drop the complaint.
Vicki offers Isla money to drop the comaplint(Image: CREDIT LINE:BBC/Jack Barnes/Kieron McCarron)
Kat is also left distressed about Joel’s influence on Tommy – and things get worse when she gets no support from Alfie. Kat doesn’t feel like she’s getting anywhere with her partner – and things go from bad to worse when he tells her that he needs to go to visit Spencer in Australia as he’s in turmoil. With Alfie away, how will Kat cope with Tommy?
It’s thought that Alfie’s ‘exit’ coincides with Shane Richie‘s recent break from the soap, in which he starred in variety show The Prat Pack alongside Bradley Walsh, former co-star Brian Conley and Joe Pasquale.
It’s not Kat’s only problem, as Jean is left furious furious about the press coverage of Kat, Alfie and Harvey’s wedding business as it suggests Kathy is Mrs Monroe. Visibly upset, she takes action to sabotage the limo business until Alfie manages to talk her down.
Phil offers to help a struggling Linda behind the bar(Image: CREDIT LINE:BBC/Jack Barnes/Kieron McCarron)
Away from the Slater and Moon’s, we’re set to see Phil and Linda’s friendship on screen once again, as Phil notices how much Linda is struggling with doing to bar alone so ends up helping her out.
It may also be bad news for those hoping for a Priya and Ravi reunion, as a tipsy Elaine offers to book Priya a singles cruise. Will a new love interest be on the cards? Linda is left horrified however, when she sees £5k leave the business account.
EastEnders airs Mondays to Thursdays at 7:30pm on BBC One and BBC iPlayer.
Haley Joel Osment must commit to six months of court-mandated Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and therapy after he was arrested earlier this year for alleged public drunkenness and cocaine possession.
The “Sixth Sense” and “Blink Twice” actor, 37, was arraigned Monday in Mono County, Calif. The Times confirmed that a judge granted the former child actor’s request for a one-year diversion. Osment, older brother of “Young Sheldon” alumna Emily Osment, will be cleared of his charges if he completes the terms of diversion: at least 3 AA meetings per week and at least two meetings with his therapist for the next six months. He must also “obey all laws,” Mono County District Attorney David Anderson said in a statement to The Times on Tuesday.
“If he does not complete diversion, the criminal proceedings will be reinstated,” Anderson said.
A representative for the actor did not immediately respond on Tuesday to The Times’ request for comment.
Osment, also known for lending his voice to the popular “Kingdom Hearts” video game franchise, was arrested April 8 on suspicion of public intoxication and possession of a controlled substance at the popular Mammoth Mountain ski resort. The Mono County district attorney’s office said at the time it charged the “Spoils of Babylon” actor with two misdemeanors: disorderly conduct involving alcohol and possession.
Law enforcement responded to a call about an allegedly intoxicated individual at the ski resort, TMZ reported in April. The website published video of Osment, wearing his ski helmet backward, allegedly holding up the line for a ski lift. Frustrated resort guests urged Osment to “get out of the line,” but he brushed off their demands and refused to follow a crew member who tried to escort him to the side, according to the video.
Adding to his troubles, Osment berated his arresting officer, claiming “I’ve been kidnapped by a f— Nazi” and hurling an antisemitic slur at the officer. After the footage surfaced, Osment said in a statement that he was “absolutely horrified by my behavior … in the throes of a blackout.”
“From the bottom of my heart, I apologize to absolutely everyone that this hurts. What came out of my mouth was nonsensical garbage — I’ve let the Jewish community down and it devastates me,” he added at the time. “I don’t ask for anyone’s forgiveness, but I promise to atone for my terrible mistake.”
Anderson said in his statement that his office “did not believe diversion was appropriate and objected” to Osment’s request, citing the actor’s prior DUI conviction and his comments to the officer. Ultimately, a judge decided in Osment’s favor.
Osment is next due in court Jan. 5, 2026, for a review of his diversion compliance.
Before then, he is set to appear in Season 2 of Netflix’s hit series “Wednesday.” The streaming giant revealed his serial killer role during its Tudum fan event on Saturday in Inglewood.
Billy Joel has canceled all upcoming concerts, revealing he has been diagnosed with a brain disorder that causes physical and mental issues.
Joel, 76, has normal pressure hydrocephalus, or NPH, according to a statement posted Friday on the piano man’s social media. “This condition has been exacerbated by recent concert performances, leading to problems with hearing, vision and balance,” the statement said.
“Under his doctor’s instructions, Billy is undergoing specific physical therapy and has been advised to refrain from performing during this recovery period.”
Symptoms of NPH — in which cerebrospinal fluid accumulates in the ventricles of the brain but pressure doesn’t increase — include difficulty walking, according to the Alzheimer’s Assn. Sufferers walk with a wide stance and their bodies leaning forward, as if they were trying to maintain balance on a boat.
The association’s website says that another symptom is cognitive decline, including slowed thinking, loss of interest in daily activities, forgetfulness, short-term memory loss and difficulty completing ordinary tasks. Later in the disease, bladder control can become an issue.
NPH is one of the few causes of dementia or cognitive decline that can be controlled or reversed with treatment, the association’s website says. Surgical treatment usually involves placement of a shunt. The condition is often misdiagnosed as Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s disease.
Danny Bonaduce of “The Partridge Family,” radio and wrestling fame was diagnosed with NPH in 2023. The 65-year-old said in a 2024 interview that he initially thought he’d had a stroke, while doctors thought it was early-onset dementia or Alzheimer’s. It took “the better part of a year” for him to get a correct diagnosis, he said.
Bonaduce’s memory loss appears to have been serious: He showed the interviewer a photo of himself in a wheelchair checking out the house where he and his wife now live. He said he has no memory of visiting the place multiple times before moving there.
Billy Joel’s message Friday follows his mid-March announcement that he would postpone his upcoming tour to manage his health after surgery for an unspecified condition. At the time, the singer expected a full recovery after physical therapy.
Now, the statement said, Joel is “thankful for the excellent care he is receiving and is fully committed to prioritizing his health” and “looks forward to the day when he can once again take the stage.”
“I’m sincerely sorry to disappoint our audience, and thank you for understanding,” Joel said in Friday’s statement.
In late February, the “Just the Way You Are” singer fell after performing “It’s Still Rock and Roll to Me” in Connecticut. He quickly recovered; it’s unclear whether that incident was a symptom of the disease or simply coincidental.
Times staff writer Alexandra Del Rosario contributed to this report.
It’s 6 a.m. in Brisbane, Australia, and Kaitlyn Dever is thinking about going to the beach. Except it’s pouring rain outside, which is the only reason she had the option to check out the waves in the first place. The deluge has delayed her call time for “Godzilla x Kong: Supernova,” the monster movie she’s been shooting for the past couple of months.
Just how hard is it raining? Like a normal downpour? Or is it the kind of deluge we see in the final minutes of the season finale of “The Last of Us”?
“It’s actually pouring like the finale of ‘The Last of Us,’” Dever says, laughing.
With the beach off the menu, we have plenty of time to settle in and talk about the bruising (and possibly confusing) season finale of “The Last of Us.” Anyone thinking that the finale might feature a showdown between Dever’s character, Abby Anderson, the young woman who killed Joel (Pedro Pascal) to avenge her father’s death, and Ellie (Bella Ramsey), who has been hunting Abby to exact her own revenge, might be disappointed.
Abby doesn’t turn up until the episode’s last three minutes. When she does finally arrive, she ambushes Ellie. It’s not a tender reunion.
“I let you live,” Abby hisses. “And you wasted it!”
Then we hear the sound of a gunshot and the screen goes black. After a reset, we see Abby lying on a sofa in an entirely different environment, being beckoned from her respite to meet with militia leader Isaac (Jeffrey Wright). She strides to a balcony in Seattle’s T-Mobile Park, the stadium now being used as a base for the Washington Liberation Front. Her entrance is positively papal, and as Abby surveys the scene, a graphic lands on the screen: Seattle Day One, a time frame we’ve already lived from Ellie’s point of view.
What the hell just happened?
[Laughs] I don’t know. I have no idea.
It looks like the show just reset and we’ll be starting Season 3 following Abby for three days, leading up to her confrontation with Ellie.
One would think, yes. But [“The Last of Us” co-creator] Craig [Mazin] hasn’t talked to me about what he’s doing. All he said to me was, “Just get ready for what’s to come because it’s going to be crazier.” He always said he wanted to make Season 2 bigger than Season 1, and he said Season 3 is going to be even bigger. I’m like, “OK. I’ll be ready.”
How did he pitch you on doing the show in the first place?
At my first meeting with Craig and Neil [Druckmann, co-creator of “The Last of Us” game] they told me that their plan for Season 2 was Abby’s introduction to “The Last of Us” world. They told me the number of episodes, so I wasn’t super surprised about that, though I wasn’t thinking that the entire season was going to end on me. [Laughs]
So when you got the script and read that ending …
I was like, “We’re really doing this. Wow.” It’s a lot of pressure. I always think about the times in my past when I’ve done things and I’ve had one line in a scene, and it’s the most nerve-racking thing to do. Everyone else has dialogue, and you’re just thinking about your one line and how you’re going to say it and if you screw it up, the whole scene is screwed up because of your one line. It’s pretty terrifying — but thrilling too.
You’re talking about Abby telling Ellie, “You wasted it”? You really spit it out with some heat.
That’s good to know. I was going back and forth between Vancouver and L.A., so I constantly had to recalibrate and get back into the emotional intensity of Abby. That was actually the last scene I shot.
How did you find your way back into Abby’s anger?
Well, the very first scene I shot was the killing of Joel. The light one. [Laughs] So getting back into it, I’d always go back to that and Abby’s monologue, what she says to Joel before shooting him. Those words are so visceral and heartbreaking and really paint a picture. So I just kept bringing myself back to that place, how I’d been thinking about saying those words for five years.
Abby’s brutal encounter with Ellie in Seattle was the last scene Dever shot on “The Last of Us” Season 2.
(Liane Hentscher / HBO)
Did you watch that Joel episode when it aired or had you already seen it?
I did watch it with my partner. But the first time I watched it, I was by myself. And before that, I had gone to do ADR [automated dialogue replacement] with Craig, and he asked, “Can I just show you a little bit of it?” And I was on the floor because I was so overwhelmed. That is the most intense episode of television I’ve ever seen. And then when I watched it later, I couldn’t believe it, even though I had experienced it myself.
You had experienced it, but you’ve said you don’t really remember filming it because it was four days after your mother’s funeral. [Dever’s mother, Kathy, died from breast cancer in February 2024.] In some ways, it must have been like you were watching it for the first time.
I had to fly out three days after her funeral. And the fourth day was that scene in the chalet with the Fireflies and Joel on the floor. So, yeah, it’s all a blur, and it felt like I got to experience it as a first-time viewer. I’d see things and go, “Oh, yeah.” Grief does a really interesting thing with your brain. It messes with your memory.
Filming the scene where you brutally kill one of the most beloved characters on television goes back to what you were saying about pressure. And to do it under those circumstances must have been overwhelming.
I was terrified. I had spent so much time contemplating my mom’s death before she died, thinking about how I wouldn’t be able to go on. I couldn’t imagine. And then it’s a heartbreaking thing to think about, how life moves on. And you have the choice to keep going or not go to Vancouver and do the show that she was so excited about me doing. And then after she passed, I realized there’s no part of me that couldn’t not do this. I had to do it for her.
How did you fight past the fear?
My dad really encouraged me. I really was terrified. And he was like, “You got this. Mom was so excited that you got to be in this show.” And luckily, the crew was so understanding and supportive. Everyone took care of me.
Then it’s 15 months later and the episode finally airs, which I’d imagine brings about a different set of worries. Did you go online to check out the reaction?
Of course I did! I kill everyone’s favorite character, the love of everyone’s life. I’d never been part of anything this massive before. Like, the whole world is watching this. I had no idea what to expect.
And what did you find?
It was more positive than I thought it would be.
I didn’t play the game, so one of my first thoughts after watching it was: Wow, gamers can keep a secret.
They can. I loved watching all those TikTok videos where people were filming their parents or partners watching and showing their reactions.
Having played the game, you’ve known about Abby and Joel for years.
My dad was playing the second game and handed me the controller and said, “Kaitlyn, you’ve got to see this.” In the game, it’s so jarring and shocking.
On TV too!
[Laughs] But with the game, after they kill Joel, all of a sudden you’re playing as a woman. And my first reaction was, “Is this Ellie? Am I playing as Ellie?” It is interesting how they take these two characters who are mirrors of each other in many ways.
Dever’s Abby surveys the action inside T-Mobile Park on “Seattle Day One.”
(Liane Hentscher / HBO)
I was thinking about how it’d be great if Season 3 would have an episode with Abby and her father that mirrored the one with Ellie and Joel.
That’s a really good idea. I hope we get to do something like that.
I have a feeling you might. Maybe you even know something about that. [Laughs]
Honestly, I can keep a secret too! I knew about Joel dying long before even Season 1 because I had met with Neil years ago when they were talking about making a movie from the game. And he was showing me the making of the second game and asked, “You want to know what happens?” And I’m like, “Oh, my God!” So I’ve been keeping this in a long time.
So you’re good at keeping a secret. Gamers know how Season 3 is likely to develop. You’ve played the game. Are you being coy?
[Laughs] We don’t know what Craig’s plans are. He has been playing with dynamics, even in that first episode of the season where we see Abby taking charge and being a leader.
She sure looks like she’s a leader in the finale’s last scene.
That scene plays at the idea that Abby is sitting in her power. And whatever that means, I will keep to myself for now. People who have played the game will have a few guesses.
When you went to work on “Godzilla x Kong: Supernova” the day after the Abby/Joel episode aired, did people treat you a little differently? Maybe keep their distance a bit? Hide the golf clubs?
It was pretty wild to go to work that day. Everyone wanted to talk about it. And all they could really get out was, “Oooooof, that episode.”
One thing I kept looking for all season was where they used CGI to remove a spider bite from your face. I couldn’t find it.
[Laughs] It’s in the first episode with the Fireflies. I had gone home for a few weeks and got a spider bite on my cheek. I thought it was a pimple. It was not a pimple. It was a huge spider bite and … I hate to use this word, but it was oozing. And the CGI is amazing. You can’t even tell it is there. I still have a scar on my face because they had to cut it out.
The infected have learned to stalk and sprint. The Cordyceps fungus is now airborne. And Joel (Pedro Pascal) isn’t immortal. The first five episodes of “The Last of Us” offered up several new threats and at least one major death. Deep into its second season, HBO’s series adaptation of the popular video game remains true to its namesake by sending its protagonist Ellie (Bella Ramsey) and her partner Dina (Isabela Merced) on a revenge mission from their fortified compound in Wyoming to the wilds of Seattle. Their aim is to find Joel’s killer, Abby (Kaitlyn Dever). But the Pacific Northwest presents challenges beyond cauliflower-headed flesh eaters and deadly mean girls. The brutal conflict between the Washington Liberation Front and the primitive religious cult the Seraphites makes Ellie’s mission all the more dangerous and complex — and the show’s imagery more gruesome.
Episode 6 brought Joel back from the dead in a series of flashbacks that gave insight into his unique parenting skills, revealed the event that triggered the rift between Joel and Ellie and uncovers what happened to therapist Gail’s (Catherine O’Hara’s) husband, Eugene (Joe Pantoliano). While on patrol, Eugene was bitten by the infected. Ellie made Joel promise he would not kill Eugene until he had the chance to say goodbye to his wife. But when Ellie leaves for a moment to retrieve their horses, Joel breaks the promise.
Like Episode 3 of Season 1, Sunday’s installment of the series was the rare episode that deviated from the game’s narrative to tell a deeper story about the characters. Beginning at Ellie’s 15th birthday and moving through subsequent ones, the episode chronicled the shifting dynamic in the main characters’ father-daughter relationship, from a tight bond between orphan and her adopted protector to near estrangement.
Lorraine Ali, Tracy Brown and Mary McNamara gathered to discuss the latest episode of the spore-filled thriller.
The source of tension between Gail (Catherine O’Hara) and Joel (Pedro Pascal) is revealed in Episode 6.
(Liane Hentscher / HBO)
Ali: “The Last of Us” features flesh-eating zombie-like things and death-worshipping cults, but I love that the true terror at the heart of Season 2 is the prospect of parenting a teen. The theme at the core of Episode 6 was largely centered on the fraught father-daughter dynamic between Joel and Ellie and the dangers of passing down generational trauma. We even get some backstory on Joel’s rough childhood, though I wish there had been more on that front.
What we do get a lot more of is Ellie’s hostility toward Joel, and it’s exhausting in ways that the showrunners probably never intended. Naturally there is plenty of ire in Ellie as she hurtles toward adulthood in a hopeless hellscape with an assassin/guardian who’s repeatedly lied to her. But now that she’s the lead character of the series, I need more from Ellie than just one or two gears of rage and scorn, especially given the complexity of their relationship.
Joel killed to save her and doomed humanity in the process! A bond forged in such tragedy should inspire a truckload of emotions, even in a defiant teen who’s still clumsy at expressing her feelings. But that depth or nuance just wasn’t there for me, even when the series cued us up for such moments. The flashbacks to Ellie’s birthday celebrations with Joel felt like explainers of how the two grew apart as opposed to emotional snapshots that captured the roots of their estrangement. Maybe I’ve been spoiled by the surprising depth and beauty of Season 1? I miss the terror and joy of that abandoned mall.
Brown: It’s interesting that you mention the abandoned mall, Lorraine, because I think that’s what it all comes back to for Ellie. I don’t know if it’s because I’ve spent many hours playing as Ellie in “The Last of Us” games, or because I understand what it’s like to be an angsty teenager much more than being a parent, but I thought Episode 6 did help shed some light on Ellie and Joel’s behaviors and dynamic.
Back in Episode 4, while trying to explain her immunity to the Cordyceps fungus to Dina, Ellie mentions that there are a lot of the times she wishes she wasn’t immune. In this latest episode, we learn that one of the reasons Ellie is angry with Joel is because he lied to her about what happened back in Salt Lake City with the Fireflies. But she’s also mad at him because he took away the one thing she thought could give her life and immunity purpose. “My life would have mattered, but you took that from me,” she says to him on their porch, in what appears to have been their very last conversation.
We know that Joel’s been shaped by the guilt of not being able to save his daughter Sarah at the start of the outbreak. For Ellie, I think the loss that’s affected her the most is Riley and the guilt of surviving their trip to that abandoned mall. If she wasn’t immune, Ellie would have died that day with her best friend and first love. Because she didn’t, she needed something to help justify why she’s still alive. What greater meaning could someone find for their life in a world ravaged by a pandemic than to be the reason humanity is able to find a cure?
McNamara: I’m grateful for the episode if only because it gave my own teenagers what they wanted most — more Pedro Pascal. (I miss him too but with much less passion.) But as you say, Tracy, survivor’s guilt is real and now Ellie is eyeing another emotional burden — Joel was killed for actions he took to save her life.
Revisiting Ellie’s birthdays was very touching, bridging the changes in both characters. How the hard-edge Joel from Season 1 became the softly anguished therapy patient of Season 2. Why Ellie was so rude and dismissive toward him. She knew all along that he had lied to her about Salt Lake City, and he suspected she knew — the presents, especially the trip to the science and natural history museum, seemed equally motivated by love and penance.
On one of Ellie’s birthday’s, Joel takes her to a science and natural history museum.
(Liane Hentscher / HBO)
I also loved their time in the the space portion of the museum because it underlined the vagaries of human history — this is not the first advanced civilization to fall, leaving ruins behind. Joel remembers when humans traveled to the stars (and had the resources to build museums); for Ellie, a journey from Wyoming to Seattle is just as fraught. They were always essentially time-travelers in each others lives.
But most important for me, this episode resolved just how Ellie had left it with Joel before Abby ruined everything. The truth was finally spoken — both Joel’s and Ellie’s. That she didn’t think she could forgive him but she wanted to try. That he was taken from her before she could find her way to forgiveness must certainly drive some of the rage, no?
Ali: OK, I officially feel hard-hearted, especially since we’re discussing an episode designed to plumb the characters’ and viewers’ emotions. I’m glad Season 2 is connecting with you both, and millions more HBO and Max subscribers. Or is it HBO Max? Or plain old HBO? Regardless, this round of the series is not resonating with my adult, parenting self or my inner sullen teen, i.e. the part of my being that guides many of my rash decisions and dictates my slouchy posture. That said, I do love the chemistry between Ellie and Dina. Their love and fierce loyalty toward one another is a high point of Season 2. And it looks like they’re now going to be parents.
Brown: As Ellie says, she’s going to be a dad! The way Ellie and Dina’s relationship developed over the course of the season has been one of my favorite differences between the show and the game. But speaking of the game, the birthday trip to the museum and the porch conversation where Ellie tells Joel she wants to try to forgive him that Mary mentioned are both big flashback moments directly adapted from “The Last of Us Part II” with some minor changes. In the game, Ellie and Joel spend time checking out a dinosaur exhibit before getting to the space exploration exhibit, which I admit I’m a little sad we did not get to see. And Ellie confronting Joel about the truth of what happened in Salt Lake is a separate moment long before the porch conversation in the game.
Eugene (Joe Pantoliano) is shot by Joel after he is bitten, breaking his promise to Ellie to let him live to say goodbye to his wife, Gail. It’s a change from the video game, where the character dies of natural causes.
(Liane Hentscher / HBO)
One major difference between “The Last of Us Part II” and the show is the storyline involving Eugene and Gail. The Eugene in the game was a resident of Jackson who lived out his life until he died of natural causes in his 70s, which is something the younger generation can only dream of. Gail, on the other hand, is an original character, and my response to her introduction was mostly “hooray Catherine O’Hara, hooray therapy.” Catherine O’Hara is always a delight and it’s clear everybody living in the world of “The Last of Us” could use some therapy. But in Episode 6 we see that Eugene and Gail’s story also serves as a flashpoint in Joel and Ellie’s estrangement.
We already knew Joel had killed Eugene from his therapy session with Gail earlier in the season, but what did you think about that whole sequence, Mary? Did it affect your understanding of Joel or Ellie in any way?
McNamara: Well, I have to say that was an example of bad parenting. The patrol has rules, tough but necessary for the safety of the community. Ellie (who is, hello, freaking immune) wanted to bend them. Classic parent/child face-off. But instead of just saying “no” to her and “any last words?” to Eugene before shooting him, Joel allowed her believe she was getting her way, which was just dumb. Of course he was going to shoot Eugene; he had to shoot Eugene. But it honestly did not make sense to lie about it, especially when the lie would be exposed almost instantly. Sometimes a parent just has to be the bad guy, even if it means making Catherine O’Hara really mad at you.
And though I agree with you both about the energy of Ellie and Dina offering love in place of vengeance during their excursion to Seattle, I wish the writers could have figured out a way to bring O’Hara along.
