“I’m in a huge, massive town I don’t really know,” he says, “and I’m looking for the movie district. And inevitably all the theaters are closed down. They’re all closed down. That’s what the dream is.”
I’m visiting Carpenter at his longtime production house in Hollywood on one of L.A.’s unjustly sunny October afternoons. A vintage “Halloween” pinball machine and a life-size Nosferatu hover near his easy chair. I tell him I don’t think Freud would have too much trouble interpreting that particular dream.
“No, I know,” he says, laughing. “I don’t have too much trouble with that either.”
Nonetheless, it truly haunts him — “and it has haunted me over the years for many dreams in a row,” he continues. “I’m either with family or a group, and I go off to do something and I get completely lost. [Freud] wouldn’t have too much trouble figuring that out either. I mean, none of this is very mysterious.”
Carpenter is a gruff but approachable 77 these days, his career as a film director receding in the rearview. The last feature he made was 2010’s “The Ward.” His unofficial retirement was partly chosen, partly imposed by a capricious industry. The great movie poster artist Drew Struzan died two days before I visited — Carpenter says he never met Struzan but loved his work, especially his striking painting for the director’s icy 1982 creature movie “The Thing” — and I note how that whole enterprise of selling a movie with a piece of handmade art is a lost one.
“The whole movie business that I knew, that I grew up with, is gone,” he replies. “All gone.”
John Carpenter with John Mulaney, appearing as a part of “Everybody’s in L.A.” at the Sunset Gower Studios in May 2024.
(Adam Rose / Netflix)
It hasn’t, thankfully, made him want to escape from L.A. He still lives here with his wife, Sandy King, who runs the graphic novel imprint Storm King Comics, which Carpenter contributes to. He gamely appeared on John Mulaney’s “Everybody’s in L.A.” series on Netflix and, earlier this year, the Los Angeles Film Critics Assn. gave him a Career Achievement Award — a belated lovefest for a veteran who was sidelined after “The Thing” flopped, cast out into indie darkness and was never personally nominated for an Oscar.
The thing that does keep Carpenter busy these days (other than watching Warriors basketball and playing videogames) is the thing that might have an even bigger cultural footprint than his movies: his music. With his adult son Cody and godson, Daniel Davies, Carpenter is once again performing live concerts of his film scores and instrumental albums in a run at downtown’s Belasco this weekend and next.
The synthy, hypnotic scores that became his signature in films like “Halloween” and “Escape from New York” not only outnumber his output as a director — he’s scored movies for several other filmmakers and recently made a handshake deal in public to score Bong Joon Ho’s next feature — but their influence and popularity are much more evident in 2025 than the style of his image-making.
From “Stranger Things” to “F1,” Carpenter’s minimalist palette of retro electronica combined with the groove-based, trancelike ethos of his music (which now includes four “Lost Themes” records) is the coin of the realm so many modern artists are chasing.
Very few composers today are trying to sound like John Williams; many of them want to sound like John Carpenter. The Kentucky-raised skeptic with the long white hair doesn’t believe me when I express this.
“Well, see, I must be stupid,” he says, “because I don’t get it.”
“The true evil in the world comes from people,” says Carpenter. “I know that nature’s pretty rough, but not like men.
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
Carpenter is quick to put himself down. He always says that he scored his own films because he was the only composer he could afford, and that he only used synths because they were cheap and he couldn’t properly write music for an orchestra. When I tell him that Daniel Wyman, the instrumentalist who helped program and execute the “Halloween” score in 1978, praised Carpenter’s innate knowledge of the “circle of fifths” and secondary dominants — bedrocks of Western musical theory that allowed Carpenter’s scores to keep the tension cooking — he huffs.
“I have no idea what he’s talking about,” Carpenter says, halfway between self-deprecation and something more rascally. “It all comes, probably, from the years I spent in our front room with my father and listening to classical music. I’m sure I’m just digging this s— out.”
Whether by osmosis or genetics or possibly black magic, Carpenter clearly absorbed his powers from his father, Dr. Howard Carpenter, a classically trained violinist and composer. Classical music filled the childhood home in Bowling Green and for young John it was all about “Bach, Bach and Bach. He’s my favorite. I just can’t get enough of Johann there.”
It makes sense. Bach’s music has a circular spell quality and the pipe organ, resounding with reverb in gargantuan cathedrals, was the original synthesizer.
“He’s the Rock of Ages of music,” says Carpenter, who particularly loves the fugue nicknamed “St. Anne” and the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor. “Everybody would go back to Mozart or Beethoven. They are astonishing — Beethoven is especially astonishing — but they’re not my style. I don’t feel it like I do with Bach. I immediately got him.”
Carpenter was also a film score freak since Day 1. He cites the early electronic music in 1956’s “Forbidden Planet” and claims Bernard Herrmann and Dimitri Tiomkin as his two all-time favorites. Just listen, he says, to the way Tiomkin’s music transitions from the westerny fanfare under the Winchester Pictures logo to the swirling, menacing orchestral storm that accompanies “The Thing From Another World” title card in that 1951 sci-fi picture that Carpenter remixed as “The Thing.”
“The music is so weird, I cannot follow it,” he says. “But I love it.”
Yet Carpenter feels more personally indebted to rock ‘n’ roll: the Beatles, the Stones, the Doors. He wanted to be a rock star ever since he grew his hair long and bought a guitar in high school. He sang and performed R&B and psychedelic rock for sororities on the Western Kentucky campus as well as on a tour of the U.S. Army bases in Germany. He formed the rock trio Coupe de Villes with his buddies at USC and they made an album and played wrap parties.
He also kept soaking up contemporary influences, listening to Warren Zevon’s “Werewolves of London” while location scouting for “Halloween.” Peter Fonda later introduced Carpenter to Zevon and he wanted the director to adapt the song into a film that never happened (starring Fonda as the werewolf, but “this time he gets the girl,” Carpenter recalls). In the ’80s he blasted Metallica with his two boys and he still loves Devo.
It’s incredibly rare for a film director to score their own films, rarer still for one to spend decades on stage as a performing musician. The requisite personalities would seem diametrical.
“My dad was a performing musician, so it was just part of the family,” Carpenter says. However, until 2016, when Carpenter first toured with his music, he was consumed with stage fright. “I had an incident when I was in a play in high school,” he says. “I went up and I forgot my lines. Shame descended upon me and I had a tough time. I was scared all the time.”
The director credits his touring drummer, Scott Seiver, for helping him beat it.
“Your adrenaline carries you to another planet when that thing starts,” he sighs with pleasure. “You hear a wall of screaming people. It’s a big time.”
He pushes back against the idea that directors “hide behind the camera.”
“The pressure, that’s the biggest thing,” Carpenter says. “You put yourself under pressure from the studio, you’re carrying all this money, crew, you want to be on time.”
He remembers seeing some haggard making-of footage of himself in post-production on “Ghost of Mars” in 2001 and thinking: Oh my God, this guy is in trouble. “I had to stop,” he says. “I can’t do this to myself anymore. I can’t take this kind of stress — it’ll kill you, as it has so many other directors. The music came along and it’s from God. It’s a blessing.”
John Carpenter is grateful but he doesn’t believe in God. He believes that, when we die, “we just disperse — our energy disperses, and we return to what we were. We’re all stardust up there and the darkness created us, in a sense. So that’s what we have to make peace with. I point up to the infinite, the space between stars. But things stop when you die. Your heart stops, brain — everything stops. You get cold. Your energy dissipates and it just… ends. The End.”
This is not exactly a peaceful thought for him.
“I mean, I don’t want to die,” he adds. “I’m not looking forward to that. But what can you do? I can’t control it. But that’s what I believe and I’m alone in it. I can’t put that on anybody else. Everybody has their own beliefs, their own gods, their own afterlife.”
He describes himself as a “long-term optimist but a short-term pessimist.”
“I have hope,” he says, “put it that way.” Yet he looks around and sees a lot of evil.
“The true evil in the world comes from people,” says Carpenter, who has long used cinematic allegories to skewer capitalist pigs and bloodthirsty governments. “I know that nature’s pretty rough, but not like men. You see pictures of lions taking down their prey and you see the face of the prey and you say: ‘Oh, man.’ Humans do things like that and enjoy it. Or they do things like that for power or pleasure. Humans are evil but they’re capable of massive good — and they’re capable of the greatest art form we have: music.”
The greatest?
“You don’t have to talk about it. You just sit and listen to it. It’s not my favorite,” he clarifies, alluding to his first love, cinema — “but it’s the one that transcends centuries.”
Music has always been kinder to him than the movie business. That business recently reared its ugly head when A24 tossed his completed score for “Death of a Unicorn.” (At least he owns the rights and will be putting it out sometime soon.) In addition to the high he gets from playing live, he is currently working on a heavy metal concept album complete with dialogue. It’s called “Cathedral” and he’ll be playing some of it at the Belasco.
It’s essentially a movie in music form, based on a dream Carpenter had. Though not one he finds scary. What scares Carpenter, it seems, is not being in control.
That happened to him in the movie world, it’s happening more and more as what he calls the “frailties of age” mount and it happens in that nightmare about getting lost in a big city and not finding any theaters.
“But I can’t do anything about it,” he says. “What can I do? See, the only thing I can do is what I can control: music. And watching basketball.”
VIRGIN Radio Breakfast Show host Chris Evans has revealed the hit TV programme he turned down presenting.
The broadcaster was speaking with The Office co-creator Stephen Merchant on today’s show when Noel Edmonds cropped up in the conversation.
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Chris Evans revealed the popular gameshow he turned down hostingCredit: Virgin Radio UKStephen Merchant recalled his early career at the BBCCredit: Virgin Radio UK
Stephen explained: “One of the first times I got a little bit starstruck is I first joined the BBC as a trainee and I was walking around the doughnut at the BBC and coming the other way, Noel Edmonds.
“I think he might have had Cuban heels on, I’m not sure. He had an attaché case. I thought, ‘What are the ideas in there? I bet there’s some quality in there. I bet there’s a Blobby spin-off’. I was a massive Edmonds fan.”
The comedy writer and actor then praised Edmonds’ ability to make long-running gameshow Deal or No Deal a national TV institution.
He said: “That guy, the fact that you could keep that going day in, day out of people opening boxes. I mean, only Edmonds could do it. It’s extraordinary.”
Chris then revealed the show could have been very different if he’d agreed to present it.
“I was offered that show,” he said Chris. “Thank God I turned it down.”
When Stephen responded, “you’re extraordinary,” Chris quickly clarified that he wasn’t blowing his own trumpet, rather making the point that fate intervened and everything worked out as it should.
Chris explained that production company Endemol offered him the job without the need for an audition or pilot episode, but the former TFI Friday host never entertained it.
He said a DVD of the format lay on his coffee table “for ages” and remained unwatched.
“I wasn’t interested,” said Chris. “No, not for a second. It’s not what I do and Noel did it, it brought him back and he’s one of my heroes. It’s a genius show anyway.”
The pair then laughed about Noel turning the act of opening a box containing a mystery amount of money into a spiritual process that tapped into each contestant’s intuition.
Noel hosted the programme for 11 years between 2005 and 2016 before it was shelved by Channel 4.
The format barely changed in that time with 22 contestants all given a red box, containing an unknown some between 1p and £250,000 in value, at random.
A chosen player then has to select which of their co-stars’ boxes they want to open, hopeful of avoiding big money sums as they go
At intervals, the banker makes the player an offer for their box, which they can decide to take in exchange for their sum or play on until the very end where they will walk away with the mystery amount they were originally allocated.
The programme made a comeback in 2023 on UTV with Stephen Mulhern at the helm.
Listen to The Chris Evans Breakfast Show with The National Lottery on Virgin Radio UK, weekdays from 6:30am
Noel Edmonds revitalised his career with Deal or No DealCredit: Channel 4
Brad Ingelsby knew after the breakout success of HBO’s “Mare of Easttown” — a crime drama about a police detective (Kate Winslet) investigating the murder of a teenage girl in a fictional working-class town — he didn’t want his next series to be another whodunit.
“That’s Mare’s thing,” he says on a recent late afternoon. “So, you start to go, if you’re going to write another story in the crime genre, what would get the audience to keep clicking to the next episode? I just thought, ‘Well, maybe a collision course show, where [in] every episode, we get a little closer, a little closer, a little closer, until things collide.’ ”
In “Task,” which concluded Sunday on HBO, Mark Ruffalo stars as Tom Brandis, a priest-turned-FBI agent leading a task force investigating a series of robberies in Delaware County, Pa., an area commonly referred to as Delco that was also the setting for “Mare of Easttown.” (And with references to Wawa and Scrapple, along with visits to Rita’s Water Ice, it slips into its role of expanding the universe.) It leads Tom to Robbie Prendergast (Tom Pelphrey), a sanitation worker who robs drug houses at night to provide for his family. Both men are emotionally tortured by life events — Tom’s wife was murdered by their adopted son, who is incarcerated; Robbie’s brother was killed by a member of a motorcycle gang — that have set them each on different, but destructive paths.
In “Task,” Mark Ruffalo, left, Alison Oliver, Thuso Mbedu and Fabein Frankel portray law enforcement officers who are part of an FBI task force investigating a string of robberies.
(Peter Kramer / HBO)
“ ‘Mare’ was about the moms — the damage that all the guys have caused and the women are kind of having to pick up the pieces of that,” Ingelsby says. “This [show] is all about the fathers and being left behind, seeing the damage they’ve done to their kids, how they’re going to fix that in their lives — or not be able to fix it. The guys who are actually doing the damage without knowing.”
Ingelsby says his uncle, who was an Augustinian priest, helped inspire the throughline of the series.
“I’ve always been very intrigued by his idea of faith in God over the years, and how it’s changed over time, and what he believed once and what he believes now,” he says. “I was intrigued by the idea of a guy who, everything he held as truth, all the pillars of his life, have come crumbling down. And Robbie has a much different faith. And it’s through the gauntlet of the story, how their lives intersect, that they both get to navigate their own journeys of faith.”
Over dinner at a West Hollywood hotel, The Times sat down with Ingelsby, Ruffalo and Pelphrey to discuss their faith journeys, economic inequality, fatherhood — and Wawa, too. Here are edited excerpts from the conversation, which contains spoilers about the finale.
After the success of “Mare of Easttown,” creator Brad Ingelsby wanted his follow-up, “Task,” to feel connected, but not repetitive: “ ‘Mare’ was about the moms,” he says. “This [show] is all about the fathers and being left behind, seeing the damage they’ve done to their kids, how they’re going to fix that in their lives — or not be able to fix it.”
(Bexx Francois/For The Times)
The themes of the show involve forgiveness and faith. Every person has experienced something in life that has tested those ideas. How has your own relationship to faith and forgiveness evolved as you’ve lived more life or taken on roles that ask you to live different experiences?
Pelphrey: My faith, to me, is when I got sober. God willing, Oct. 1, which is three days from now, it’ll be 12 years. That’s truly by the grace of God — you hear that phrase, but I genuinely, I mean that. That’s how I’ve experienced faith, through my sobriety. I was raised Catholic, but the experience I had at 31 was like in a different dimension to what I thought of religion or ideas. It’s one thing to have an idea, it’s another thing to have your heart opened. It’s definitely an important part of my life. And I think Brad did such a beautiful job conveying that. My grandma used to have one of these things when I was a kid — not a real gem, but like a glass cut thing so if you put it in the window, the sun shines through a million different ways, and the color goes everywhere. I feel like you [Brad] did that with some themes in the show where you’re like, “Let me just hold it up, and we’ll just look at it a few different ways.”
Ruffalo: My journey with faith is probably very similar to Tom’s. When you get a job or something, it can take you on a journey that you’re ripe to take. It touches your life at a very moment where you need it. I’d say, after my brother died, the whole notion of faith just went out the window for me. But oddly enough, I have a lot of addiction, alcoholism in my family. I say, either you are one or you love one. When you love somebody who’s struggling with that, it takes a lot of faith to let them go and to trust it will be OK. My friend says to me, “They got a God and you ain’t it.”
My faith has been renewed, actually, through Tom [the character] — he is an alcoholic. It’s touched my life in so many ways, even with my brother, that it’s like where I lost my faith and where I gained my faith again has been through this journey with alcoholism and drug addiction. And I waver. You look at the world and you’re like, “Where is God in this? Please show yourself. ” But the thing about faith is it requires you to believe without any evidence of its existence. I’d rather believe in that than nothing. Although, I fought him [Brad] all the time. I was like, “He’s [Tom] not really praying here. He’s trying to pray. He’s going through the actions of praying, but he can’t quite get to the opening sentence, which is “ … God …” He does pray, eventually, but it’s a journey.
There’s the powerful moment in that car when Tom and Robbie finally meet in Episode 5. Robbie says, “I don’t think I’ve ever experienced God in my life.” This is a man that hasn’t felt hope, and he has this glimmer of it with this goal of escaping to Canada. Tom, how was it getting into the mindset of this guy just trying to get out of this life?
Pelphrey: It’s heartbreaking. We’re articulating an American dream that far too many people don’t get to experience, and maybe are starting to lose the hope of ever experiencing it. That’s a very real thing — unfortunately, way too real and increasingly way too common. It was just constantly reminding myself: What does this character want? And at the end of the day, regardless of how extreme some of the things Robbie’s doing, he just wants a decent life for his kids. And the fact that he’s having a hard time getting it is heartbreaking.
That scene and in the car, the first time I read it, I was like, “Oh, he’s [Brad] got some balls.” You have so much s— boiling over — the plot lines, the violence, the stakes are through the roof for everyone now in the show, and we are going to sit in a car for half an episode? And two dudes are gonna talk?
In Episode 5, Robbie Prendergast (Tom Pelphrey), left, and Tom Brandis (Mark Ruffalo) finally meet.
(HBO)
Ruffalo: There’s no chase! And when they finally face each other, they’re not even [actually] facing each other! They’re both pushed to the edge and you don’t know where it could go. Tom certainly doesn’t know where it will go. Tom’s kind of at that point, like, “F— it. Go ahead.” We talked about it a lot, I was like, “I think Tom should die.”
[They break into laughter]
Ingelsby: Every single day he was pitching it.
Ruffalo: I was pitching Tom should have a heart attack at the end and he literally sees God and he says to God, “I’m ready.” He finally finds his faith. It’s finally paid off and he says [gasping], “I’m … reaaady.”
Ingelsby: Enough people die here. But that particular episode has always been very special to me. That’s when the show is operating at the peak of its powers. It just felt like, how do we subvert the expectations of the audience and do that in a way that still feels true to who these characters are? I remember talking to you [Tom] about this. You were like, “As soon as I know Cliff’s done, I’m on a one-way street. I have a plan.” But with you [Mark], once they get out of the car and you feel like you’re going to die, you’re like, “I want to call my family.” That’s when you get activated in a way. You’ve been going through the motions in life, but that’s when it gets very real.
Ruffalo: It’s like being reborn. It opens his heart. He sees how life can be taken away.
We’re in a political and cultural moment where the mood of the country is simmering — there’s anger and rage on all sides, and a lot of it stems from class and systemic issues that are in place that put people in certain positions. There’s that layer, but there’s also the grief element both these men are facing.
Ingelsby: With Robbie in particular, I was interested in a guy that felt really stuck. What I liked about Robbie was, if he didn’t take action, what would happen to Robbie? He’d be a trash man in too deep his whole life. Who cares about Robbie and his family? Nobody. He was left behind. In early versions of the script, I very explicitly said, “He wants his bite of the apple.” There are lots of people like that now. I loved writing Robbie because it felt like he was raging against being left behind and and I felt, in many cases, in the script, why wouldn’t you do something? Whether you agree with the actions or not —
Pelphrey: He had his f— life stolen from him. What he’s going after is a very specific thing. He’s not lashing out blindly against anybody to get any money at any cost. He’s like: “I’m gonna take it from these mother f—, who are bad dudes.” Even within that, he has principles. No one’s gonna die — obviously, the rules all go out the window Episode 2, but we’re not going to take the drugs, we’re not going to sell the drug. We’re going to destroy the drugs. We’re going to take the cash. Even within his brand of lashing out, he actually has a set of principles that he’s operating by.
Mark Ruffalo, left, and Tom Pelphrey star as two troubled men on a collision course in “Task.” Ruffalo portrays an FBI agent recovering from a family tragedy, while Pelphrey plays a garbage collector and criminal involved in a series of robberies. (Bexx Francois/For The Times)
Mark and Tom, as sons and fathers, how did you think about the father-child relationships of these two men and the collateral damage of their choices?
Ruffalo: It’s so hard to be a father, especially now because this generation is like, “We’re not going to do it the way our parents, our fathers did. We see that there’s another way to do it. We’re actually talking about it.” At the same time, we don’t exactly know what it is that we should do differently, plus we have the responsibility of, financially, keeping it together. It’s obviously hard to be a mom too. These guys are doing the best they can.
Pelphrey: Becoming a dad two and a half years ago now, it’s just the most f— awesome, wild, intense, crazy s— I’ve ever experienced in my life. It’s like getting struck by lightning. I’m so in love and I feel so vulnerable and I feel so happy — it’s all the feelings. Then suddenly, when you’re thinking about how you feel, you go, “How do I balance this? How do I protect her, but make sure that she’s brave and experiencing things? And you quickly realize there is so much to this that I will have no power over and the realization of that, in the deepest sense — and I’ve already had moments of that and we’re just getting started here. You imagine what it’s like, when you don’t have kids, but you have no f— clue. One of the things I could say without blinking, ever, is, “I totally understand why he’s doing what he’s doing.”
Was there a version where Robbie lived?
Ingelsby: No, I felt like structurally what needed to happen was Tom had to witness Robbie’s kindness, then his sacrifice. It felt very necessary to be like, “Oh, wait. Robbie — he went up to the woods…” Because he’s always like, “What’s the plan?” Tom realizes, “Oh, I know what the plan was. He went there to die.” Part of Tom’s journey to getting rid of the anger and to believing in something at the end, was to have witnessed the goodness in Robbie. He [Robbie] also gets in so deep eventually, he has pushed himself into such a corner and there’s no good way out of this. What’s an audience gonna think if he gets out of this unscathed? Even if he were to survive, he’s gonna be in jail for the rest of his life. The idea of sacrifice would speak to Tom as a character and get him to his ultimate decision to give the boy [Sam] up, but also forgive his own son and, quite literally, get the house ready for him.
Mark, how did you feel about the statement that Tom winds up giving at the hearing in the finale?
Ruffalo: He had to sit down and write that. I don’t think he really knew what he was going to be writing. He’s taking stock of his life and his son’s life and the story of the life. It’s connecting him to the whole story. It’s not just the loss of my wife, but also we raised that boy. We made this life together and, even in the hard part of it all, that’s where we learned what love is. Then when he gets in there, he doesn’t even know that he’s gonna say it. He doesn’t know he’s going to confront him with it and say [to his son], “Look at me.” But the whole journey, leads us there.
There’s something, too, about his composure in that moment.
Ingelsby: That’s the genius of Mark. That was the first or second take, what we used.
How many versions of it did you write? Was there an overly emotional or dramatic version?
Ingelsby: There was a longer version. But I think what was important about it was — and Mark does such a beautiful job — was that he had to be honest about how hard it was. I was always worried it would be a bit maudlin, if he just went in and said straight away, “I love you.” It was almost like he had to be really honest with everybody, like, “Hey, this was f— horrible.” And the shame of changing your name —
Ruffalo: Yes. To be that honest and to say that I pretended like I wasn’t his father. It’s so shameful. It’s so honest.
Ingelsby: I think because he’s so honest, it makes the forgiveness even more impactful. When he says, “I forgive you,” you believe because he’s earned the trust in the speech by admitting the things that were so shameful .
Ruffalo: It doesn’t just go one way — forgiveness. There’s a lot of shame on it on the other side, that’s where the anger comes from. There’s always this question: What could I have done? The backstory was I left, knowing that he was in an episode, but I had to go. I left her with him, thinking it would blow over. And it didn’t. He has to also be honest about his part in it. What dad says, “That’s not my kid. You’re in retreat already.”
Ingelsby: That’s what we want the ending to be. It’s not that everything’s going to be easy. I think the same for Mare — it wasn’t like Mare’s life was so great at the end of the show. There was a lot of going on.
Ruffalo: She’s going to an AA meeting. Tom and Mare can meet at an AA meeting.
Tom Pelphrey as Robbie Prendergrast, a garbage collector trying to avenge his brother’s death by hitting trap houses belonging to a local gang before getting caught in a deadly standoff. (HBO)
Mark Ruffalo, Silvia Dionicio and Phoebe Fox in “Task.” Ruffalo plays a priest-turned-FBI agent who hasn’t confronted his feelings about the murder of his wife at the hands of their adopted son. (HBO)
To that point, was there thought about whether to incorporate “Mare” characters in this show, if they’re in the same universe?
Ingelsby: It’s funny you say that. [In] one of the early scripts, we had a scene where Emily (Silvia Dionicio), at the end of the show, went to a concert with her boyfriend, Leo, the guy that’s a magician. And Mare’s daughter, Siobhan (Angourie Rice), was playing. And there was another connective piece I’m missing. I think Leo’s brother was in the band. And they had a moment together, because I felt like Emily and Siobhan were very, very similar. That they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in some way, Emily especially —
Ruffalo: They’re well suited for each other. They could just sink to the bottom of the lake together.
He’s got a crossover season mapped out for you.
Pelphrey: If we hold hands, we can sink faster.
Ingelsby: But we did have something connecting them. But I’m glad HBO read it and were like, “Is it a bit much?” It felt like maybe we were reaching to do something that the story didn’t require. And when we took it out, I felt like this story exists on its own, and we didn’t need that. If we had threaded it through the story in a more interesting way, maybe it would have worked, but it would have felt really tacked on and kind of just fan service for the sake of fan service, which I didn’t want.
Can we talk about the Phillies cup? It’s seems like such an obscure detail, but that cup triggered me. I know it well. A father trying to hide his vice.
Ingelsby: That’s another detail of my own life that I can repurpose, steal. That’s my dad. He drinks out of that. He watches every Phillies game. There’s 162 games. And if he can’t watch, he’s listening to it in a radio in the car. I feel like we always talk about in the specific, is the universal. And Mark did the swirly thing.
Ruffalo: That’s what made me want to do the show. That he was drinking out of that. And then he swirled his hand. I said, “This guy is writing character like nobody is doing that I’ve seen in television.” I only read the first episode and I was like, “I want to go. I trust this journey with him.” And it was from that nuance thing. I know that guy. He’s a priest who swirls his vodka and tonic with his finger. In a Phillies cup. And he thinks he’s pulling it over. That’s my family. It’s so honest.
The accent was such a feature of “Mare of Easttown.” I imagine that had its own expectations or pressure for this show.
Ingelsby: “Mare” was more a community — very, very specific community. I felt like, in that show, we had to go all in and Kate did. A lot of Mark’s character was driven by my uncle, who has no accent at all. Because he went to the seminary, then he went to Merrimack College, he was a teacher — he bounced around. And even me, there’s a couple words I’ll say that you can’t pick up a heavy accent. There’s a couple words, where maybe you could pick it up.
Ruffalo: We tried. I tried it. I kept kicking it out, it just didn’t feel right. He does hit some of those words. He does say wooder — cheery wooder ice. We kept some of it in, but we didn’t go as hard at it because he goes another way. I feel like he might have ended up in South America at some point. I was thinking he traveled the world.
Did you pay many visits to Wawa? I remember Kate telling me about her Wawa experiences.
Pelphrey: I grew up going to Wawa. I was Wawa all the time because I was living out in the suburbs.
Ingelsby: I think Kate ate hoagies or something.
Pelphrey: They make a good sandwich.
Ruffalo: Oh, bro. I started with a fat suit and then I had to take it off. I just kept getting fatter. My wife saw me and she’s like [to the kids], “huh, your father’s eating his way through Philly.” But, man, I’d be like, “How about a sandwich for the scene?” [Mimics scarfing down a sandwich.] Like a troll.
Ingelsby: He is an amazing sandwich eater. We were talking about it.
Pelphrey: We were.
Ruffalo: Oh, I knew I was going to be eating a sandwich that day [in a scene], so I starved myself so I could just plow that thing.
Are you interested in a Season 2, Brad?
Ruffalo: No one wants a Season 2. [the trio laughs] No, I’m kidding. That would be amazing.
Ingelsby: It would be amazing. If people respond and we get a chance to do it.
Could we get that “Task”-”Mare” crossover?
Ingelsby: A lot could happen.
Ruffalo: Some “Mare” people could show up. There could be a love affair.
As a young lad growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area town of Pittsburg, my school uniform consisted of corduroys the color of Ash Wednesday, a white dress shirt and a maroon V-neck sweater. I walked west from my family’s apartment on 10th Street, turned left on Montezuma, and arrived about 15 minutes later at the campus of St. Peter Martyr.
My teachers were nuns, the parish priests were Dominicans, and Sunday mass was a celebration of faith, humility and grace.
I am not without sin. I’m an imperfect man and the church is an imperfect institution.
But I’ve been wondering lately what my favorite St. Peter Martyr teachers — Sisters Roberta, Eileen and Estelle — would make of today’s political discourse, in which claims of piety and Christian faith are not always backed by words and deeds, particularly from a certain world leader.
I think if they were teaching today, the nuns would tell everyone in class to get out their pencils and notebooks and write a letter to the president.
So here goes.
Dear President Trump:
Ever hear of St. Peter Martyr School?
Probably not, but I’m an alum. The school was named after St. Peter of Verona, who campaigned against heresy and paid the price when one of the Cathars sunk an ax into his skull (what a way to go). So I guess politics haven’t really changed much over the centuries.
By the way, nice job recently on your presentation at the National Bible Museum, where you launched the “America Prays” initiative to celebrate spirituality and restore “our identity as one nation under God.” And congratulations on your missionary work. I see that you raked in $1.3 million on your “God Bless the USA Bible.”
Well put, Mr. President, and unsurprising, given that you once called the Bible your favorite book. But I know that in my own life, I need to flip back through the pages on occasion to ground myself in the teachings.
So here’s an idea:
I’ll share a Bible verse, and then I’ll follow it with a recent quote from you. Not that I’m judging, or anything. But we might all benefit spiritually by asking whether, in our own lives, God would approve of how we conduct ourselves.
Are you ready?
Corinthians 12: “Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude.”
Trump: “You know, Biden was always a mean guy, but he was never a smart guy. … You go back 30 years ago, 40 years ago, he was a stupid guy, but he was always a mean son of a bitch.”
Essay Topic: An obsessive need to demean and diminish others is explained by some behavioral therapists as a sign of insecurity, weakness, or an unhappy childhood. Write 500 words, in cursive, on how any of this might apply to you.
Genesis 2:15: “The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.”
Trump: “This climate change, it’s the greatest con job ever perpetrated on the world in my opinion … all of these predictions made by the United Nations and many others, often for bad reasons, were wrong, they were made by stupid people. … If you don’t get away from this green scam, your country’s going to fail.”
Essay Topic: Despite the growing horror of melting icecaps, deadly storms, disappearing coasts and widespread famine, if the Garden of Eden were a national forest, would you lay off Adam or Eve, or both of them, and would anything prevent you from opening the property to drilling?
John 3:17: “But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?”
Trump: “It’s time to end the failed experiment of open borders. You have to end it now. It’s — I can tell you. I’m really good at this stuff. Your countries are going to hell.”
Essay Topic: Given that we probably shouldn’t, as mere mortals, assume divine powers, is condemning someone to hell — or entire countries, in this case — an act of blasphemy?
Leviticus 19: “The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.”
Trump: “They’re eating the dogs, the people that came in, they’re eating the cats. They’re eating the pets of the people that live there, and this is what’s happening in our country, and it’s a shame.”
Essay Topic: You once said immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our country,” and yet your late mother and two of your three wives were immigrants. Were you ever tempted to have any, or all three of them deported, and if so, in which order?
Psalm 103: “The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.”
Trump: “Happy Memorial Day to all, including the scum that spent the last four years trying to destroy our country.”
Essay Topic: Given that Jesus would not likely have called half the population of the United States scum, and that he probably would have protested ICE raids at Home Depots, would you say the son of God was a member of the extreme radical left?
Matthew 5: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.”
Trump: “I hate my opponent and I don’t want what’s best for them. … I can’t stand my opponent.”
Essay Topic: Which saying do you find the most offensive and probably created by the radical left — turn the other cheek, or treat others as you would have them treat you?
Bonus points: At what age did you begin pulling the wings off of butterflies, and which, if any, of the 10 Commandments have you not broken?
Matthew 23: “Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”
Hallellujah and amen to that. And yes, it is possible.
But first you must write and recite, 1,000 times, the Act of Contrition. (It’s the prayer that ends with: “I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen.”)
Sisters Roberta, Eileen and Estelle will be waiting for you at the Pearly Gates. And trust me — they will know if you’ve done your homework.
A few hours after Charlie Kirk was killed, Sean Feucht, an influential right-wing Christian worship leader, filmed a selfie video from his home in California, his eyes brimming with tears.
The shooting of one of the nation’s most prominent conservative activists, Feucht declared, was no less than “a line in the sand” in a country descending into a spiritual darkness.
“The enemy thinks that he won, that there was a battle that was won today,” he said, referencing Satan. “No, man, there’s going to be millions of bold voices raised up out of the sacrifice and the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk.”
Soon afterward, Pastor Matt Tuggle, who leads the Salt Lake City campus of the San Diego-based Awaken megachurch, posted a video of Kirk’s killing on Instagram, adding the caption: “If your pastor isn’t telling you the left believes a evil demonic belief system you are in the wrong church!”
People place lighted candles below a photo of Charlie Kirk at a vigil in his memory in Orem, Utah.
(Lindsey Wasson / Associated Press)
Kirk’s death has triggered a range of reaction, much of it mournful sympathy for the 31-year-old activist and his family. But it also has sparked conspiracy theories, hot-take presumptions the left was responsible and calls for vengeance against Kirk’s perceived enemies.
At a vigil for Kirk in Huntington Beach this week, some attendees waved white flags depicting a red cross and the word “Jesus,” while some chanted, “White men, fight back!” Kirk spread a philosophy that liberals sought to disempower men, and some of his male supporters see his killing as an attack against them.
Whether the calls for vengeance will ebb or intensify remains to be seen, especially with Utah Gov. Spencer Cox’s announcement Friday that a suspect in the fatal shooting, 22-year-old Tyler Robinson, had been arrested after a family member turned him in.
In life, Kirk spoke of what he called a “spiritual battle” being waged in the United States between Christians and a Democratic Party that “supports everything that God hates.”
In death, Kirk, one of the Republican Party’s most influential power brokers, is being hailed by conservative evangelical pastors and GOP politicians as a Christian killed for his religious beliefs.
President Trump called Kirk a “martyr for truth and freedom,” and ordered flags to be flown at half-staff in his honor. He blamed Kirk’s death on the rhetoric of the “radical left.” Vice President JD Vance, who helped carry Kirk’s casket to Air Force Two, retweeted a post Kirk wrote on X last month reading, “It’s all about Jesus.” And Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, quoting Jesus, wrote on X: “Well done, good and faithful servant.”
A woman lays her head down on a seat during a vigil at CenterPoint Church for Charlie Kirk in Orem, Utah.
(Lindsey Wasson / Associated Press)
Experts on faith and far-right extremism say they are troubled by the religious glorification of Kirk in this era of increased political violence — and the potential vengeance that may spring from it. The activist’s death, they say, seems to have ignited various factions on the right, ranging from white supremacists to hard-core Christian nationalists.
“The ‘spiritual warfare’ rhetoric will only increase,” and Kirk is now being lifted up as “a physical manifestation” of a religious battle, said Matthew Boedy, a professor of rhetoric and composition at the University of North Georgia who has written a forthcoming book about Christian nationalism that prominently features Kirk.
“Spiritual warfare rhetoric was a big part of Jan. 6,” he said of the deadly 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters. “Making a martyr out of Charlie Kirk will change our nation in severe ways.”
Samuel Perry, a sociologist at the University of Oklahoma and expert on Christian nationalism, said he is a Christian himself but that religion, cynically used, “has the potential to amplify what would otherwise be very secular political conflicts between Democrats and Republicans.”
“What if those are amplified with a cosmic and ultimate significance?” he said. “It becomes, ‘This is God vs. Satan. This is angels vs. demons — and if we lose this next election, we plunge the nation into a thousand years of darkness.’ … It basically provokes extremism.”
Kirk — who rallied his millions of online followers to vote for Trump in the 2024 election — declared that God was on the side of American conservatives and that there was “no separation of church and state.” He was also known for his vitriol against racial and religious minorities, LGBTQ+ people, childless women, progressives and others who disagreed with him.
Kirk called transgender people “a throbbing middle finger to God.” He said the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was “a huge mistake” and called the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. “awful.” On his podcast, he called with a smirk for “some amazing patriot out there in San Francisco or the Bay Area [who] wants to really be a midterm hero” to bail out of jail the man who attacked then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s husband with a hammer in their home in 2022.
A memorial is set up for Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University in Orem, Utah.
(Lindsey Wasson / Associated Press)
In 2023, Kirk sat on the stage of Awaken Church in Salt Lake City and said: “I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the 2nd Amendment to protect our other God-given rights.”
Two days before his death, Kirk retweeted a video of himself saying that a “spiritual battle is coming for the West,” with “wokeism or marxism combining with Islamism” to go after “the American way of life, which is, by the way, Christendom.”
Perry said, “There’s no need to whitewash the legacy of Charlie Kirk.”
“This is a tragedy, and no one deserves to die this way,” Perry said. “Yet, at the same time, Charlie Kirk is very much part of this polarization story in the U.S. who used quite divisive rhetoric, ‘us vs. them, the left is evil.’”
Perry noted that Kirk’s Turning Point USA had placed him on its Professor Watchlist, a website that says it aims to expose professors “who discriminate against conservative students and advance leftist propaganda.” The entry on Perry flags him for “Anti-Judeo-Christian Values.”
Some on the right say their recent fiery words are only a response to the hateful rhetoric of the left. One widely shared example: Two days before Kirk’s killing, the feminist website Jezebel published an article titled, “We Paid Some Etsy Witches to Curse Charlie Kirk.” It has since been removed and replaced by a letter from the site’s editor saying it had been “intended as satire and made it absolutely clear that we wished no physical harm.”
Kirk was killed by a single sniper-style shot to the neck Wednesday during an outdoor speaking event at Utah Valley University.
After announcing the suspect’s arrest Friday, Gov. Cox said he had prayed that the shooter was not from Utah, “that somebody drove from another state, somebody came from another country.” But that prayer, he said, “was not answered the way I hoped for.”
He then said that political violence “metastasizes because we can always point the finger at the other side” and that, “at some point, we have to find an offramp, or it’s going to get much, much worse.”
Some of Kirk’s most prominent evangelical followers have said that his death represents an attack on conservative Christian values and that he was gunned down for speaking “the truth.”
Jon Fleischman, Orange County-based conservative blogger and former executive director of the California Republican Party, who started out as a conservative college activist, knew Kirk and said “there is one hell of a martyr situation going on.”
“A lot of people are getting activated and are going to walk the walk, talk the talk, and give money as their way of trying to process and deal with losing someone they care about,” he told The Times.
In recent years, Kirk had become more outspoken about his Christian faith. He founded the nonprofit Turning Point USA in 2012 as an avowedly secular youth organization and became known for his college campus tours, with videos of his debates with liberal college students racking up tens of millions of views.
But in 2020, during the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, college campuses closed. Kirk started speaking at churches that stayed open in violation of local lockdown and mask orders, including Godspeak Calvary Chapel in Ventura County, which was led by Pastor Rob McCoy, a former Thousand Oaks mayor.
McCoy is now the co-chair of Turning Point USA Faith, which encourages pastors to become more politically outspoken. McCoy, who could not be reached for comment, wrote in a statement Friday: “For those who rejoiced over his murder, you are instruments of evil and I implore you to repent. For those of you who mock prayer, you would do well to reconsider. Prayer doesn’t change God, it changes us toward a more peaceful and civil life.”
Professor Boedy said McCoy turned Kirk toward Christian nationalism, specifically the Seven Mountains Mandate — the idea that Christians should try to hold sway over the seven pillars of cultural influence: arts and entertainment, business, education, family, government, media and religion.
Christian nationalism, which is rejected by mainline Christians, holds that the United States was founded as a Christian nation and that the faith should have primacy in government and law.
Brian Levin, founder of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism and a professor emeritus at Cal State San Bernardino, said, “the more violent fringes of Christian nationalism have disturbing aspects that are eliminationist and antidemocratic.”
He noted that some of the same Christian nationalists and white supremacists who are now calling Kirk a martyr already deified Trump, especially after he survived two assassination attempts on the campaign trail last year and said he had been “saved by God to make America great again.”
Levin said many Christian nationalists portray Trump as “an armed Christian warrior protecting America from a disturbing assortment of immigrants, religious minorities, genders and sexual orientations.” And so, when he uses martyr language to describe Kirk, his adherents latch on.
“Where do martyrs come from? From violent conflicts and wars,” Levin said. “The fact of the matter is that this is a moment that Trump could have more effectively seized, but he veered into divisive territory.”
California Senate Minority Leader Brian W. Jones (R-Santee) also called Kirk “a modern day martyr.” In a statement, Jones quoted Thomas Jefferson, who said, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Jones wrote: “Let us take care that we allow that tree to grow and blossom as it feeds on the lifeblood of Charles J. Kirk in the years to come.”
Times staff writer Seema Mehta contributed to this report.
No one really thought Clipse would get back together.
The duo, composed of brothers Pusha T and Malice, is well known for setting a new precedent for rap throughout the aughts. If you wipe the dust off and think back, you’ll probably remember them for hits like “Grindin’” or “When the Last Time,” both produced by the Neptunes — another duo, Pharrell Williams and Chad Hugo — and both off of their debut, “Lord Willin’.”
At the surface level, Clipse was an insanely talented rap duo out of Virginia Beach, Va., closely linked to Pharrell, who would go on to be one of hip-hop’s most in-demand producers.
“I had just turned 8 when we moved from New York to Virginia,” Malice remembers. “I think it was a bit of a culture shock for me… I remember thinking how the people in Virginia just talked different.”
But the brothers, born Gene and Terrence Thornton, quickly noticed that a lot was happening around them. Malice remembers when they used to “congregate down at the ocean front” and freestyle: “everybody would come out there.”
It wasn’t long before they “bumped heads” with Pharrell, who was a friend of a friend.
“I had heard about Pharrell and he had heard about me,” Malice says. “One day, Pusha decided he wanted to rap on a song… it was called ‘A Thief in the Night.’”
“Pharrell was like, ‘Y’all should be a group.’ And we agreed, and it was easy… it all came together in Chad’s room in his attic.”
But their first brush with fame came even earlier than their debut, with the release of “The Funeral.” At the time, the brothers had struck a deal with Elektra Records with some help from Pharrell, but the company ultimately shelved their would-be debut “Exclusive Audio Footage,” which contained the song.
Clipse were released from their contract shortly after, but the project would live on through the love of fans — or, “family,” they say.
“For me, we were superstars when we shot ‘The Funeral’ video in ‘99 in Virginia… I mean, that was it; what else was there to do?” Pusha said. “The video debuted on HBO, and we shot it at home. For me, that was the Grammys.”
“That was the mountaintop,” Malice chimed in.
“That was the mountaintop!” Pusha echoed.
Those early Clipse days were special, and the duo saw themselves at the center of a cultural shift and as a driving force in the rap game at the time. And Virginia, oddly enough, is where it was all happening.
Malice, left, and Pusha T of Clipse have cemented themselves as legends of East Coast rap.
(Cian Moore)
It had a lot to do with Teddy Riley — the father of New Jack Swing — who set up camp in Virginia Beach along with his Future Recording Studios. That became a hub in the ‘90s for established artists like Luther Vandross and Whitney Houston as well as rising stars like Timbaland and the Neptunes.
“It was a time of creativity,” Pusha said. “Whether it was Pharrell and Chad up the street or my brother working with Timbaland in junior high school … the energy of Virginia was at an all-time high.”
“A lot of people in Virginia are very creative and aspire to make something out of this music thing,” Malice added. “And I think what we’ve done is show them that it is very tangible and doable and reachable.”
But it would all come to an end in 2010, when Pusha T and Malice went their separate ways. Albeit an amicable split, it was still abrupt, with the latter experiencing a spiritual reawakening that set a hard contrast to the drug-dealing-infused lyrics that often occupied their music.
It was certainly a shock to fans, but both would remain close. According to Malice, it had a lot to do with the lessons their parents bestowed upon them.
“The way our parents raised us, that family is absolutely everything … there is no bickering, there is no animosity,” he said. “My dad was really big on family, and not only family, but brotherhood. And I don’t even mean like, just biological brotherhood. I mean brotherhood and all that it entails.”
“We always used to say in the earlier Clipse days, ‘want for your brother what you want for yourself,’ and it’s something that we hang on to with both hands,” he added.
So, the door always remained open for a Clipse reunion. And there were hints.
They appeared on longtime collaborator Kanye West’s “Jesus Is King” in 2019, and Pusha T’s solo album “It’s Almost Dry” boasted an impressive Malice feature on track “I Pray for You” in 2022. On the latter, Malice is back, seemingly as if he never left the game:
“When I was in the mix / opened up your nose like I’m cuttin’ it with Vicks / Slavin’ over stoves like I rub together sticks / Paved another road so my soul would coexist / But Heaven only knows, I won’t dig another ditch.”
Malice made a rare guest appearance on Pusha T’s fourth studio album, “It’s Almost Dry,” in 2022.
(Cian Moore)
According to him, there were “quite a few baby steps involved” before an all-out Clipse project was underway. But an enlightening conversation with his father, who died in 2022, made it “make sense for my psyche.”
“One of the last conversations I had with my dad, I asked him what he thought about me rapping again. And why that was important to me was because my dad was definitely in a church. He was a deacon,” he recalls. “And just to hear him say that he thought that I had been too hard on myself, I didn’t even expect him to say anything remotely along those lines.”
“And he was like, ‘You know what to do now.’”
It took Clipse around two years to complete “Let God Sort Em Out,” befittingly, entirely produced by Pharrell. Its rollout led with “Ace Trumpets” and the infatuating “So Be It.” The latter track ingeniously flips an obscure sample of “Maza Akoulo” by Saudi Arabian musician Talal Maddah. Notably, it also takes aim at artist Travis Scott over his alleged disloyalty.
It highlights an ongoing dissatisfaction that the brothers have with the current state of rap, an overall landscape that they say is “flawed.”
“We were coming to set standard and reset the table,” Pusha says.
“We had many opportunities to come back and do something, but it just wasn’t the right time,” Malice adds. “Money’s not going to dictate anything we do. We don’t ever compromise our art for anything. Whatever we do is going to be done at the highest level, and it’s going to feel right.”
It was no surprise that the album featured verses from the West Coast’s Kendrick Lamar and Tyler, the Creator, who are some of the best wordsmiths out right now.
On “Chains and Whips,” Pusha T opens up lethally: “The question marks block your blessings / There’s no tombstones in the desert / I know by now you get the message.”
Malice follows suit, assuring “Your lucky streak is now losing you / Money’s dried up like a cuticle / You’re gasping for air now, it’s beautiful.”
[Warning: Video contains profanity.]
Lamar is a real stand out on the album, and it’s no surprise. Last year, he tore apart Canadian rapper Drake across four diss tracks, which hit its peak with “Not Like Us.” The track ended up hitting 1 billion streams in January 2025, won five Grammy Awards, and broke the internet with its performance at the Super Bowl.
Needless to say, the Compton-born rapper and longtime friend of Pusha T has been on a roll.
“Let’s be clear, hip-hop died again / Half of my profits might go to Rakim / How many Judases that let me down? / But f— it, the West mines, we right now / Therapy showed me how to open up / It also showed me I don’t give a f—.”
Of the collaboration, Malice says “when it comes to Kendrick, I think we are of the same mindset of how important the culture is and that we keep it in existence.”
Indeed, this is something that Clipse have always maintained and they’ve taken issue with in contemporary rap. Especially given the longevity they have — Malice and Pusha T have been in the game since the early ‘90s and are 53 and 48 years old, respectively.
“I don’t think people have been in the game this long and competed at this level, you know?” Pusha says. “I think it’s a new frontier. We’re at a point of really cracking the ceiling to longevity in rap.”
“Not only cracking the ceiling; I feel like we kicked down the entire door,” Malice jumps in. “Looking backwards over the years, rappers have been getting away with murder!”
“We’re here coming for the goal every time. And I think that’s the problem: A lot of people are in the game just existing,” Pusha adds. “Not competing, you’re just in it existing in a minor artistic way.”
If “Let God Sort Em Out” wasn’t impressive enough, Clipse are back on the road, playing sold-out shows across the country. On Saturday, they’ll touch down in Los Angeles at the Novo as part of their first tour as a duo in 15 years.
Malice, who refers to fans as “the family,” is eternally grateful to be back doing what he does best for the people he loves.
“They [the family] see through a lot of the circus acts that’s going on in hip-hop and they speak for us when they show up, when we have sold-out shows, in the record sales,” he says. “We don’t take none of that for granted. It’s a real thing and crucial to our existence.”
Pete Hegseth, widely considered the least qualified Defense secretary in American history, is hardly anyone’s version of the ideal Christian husband and father.
Only 45 years old, he’s been married three times.
His first marriage — to his high school sweetheart — lasted a mere four years, deteriorating after Hegseth admitted to multiple extramarital affairs.
A couple of years later, he married his second wife, with whom he had three children. During that marriage, he fathered a child with a Fox News producer who eventually became his third wife.
He paid off a woman who accused him of sexual assault (he denies the assault). He routinely passed out drunk at family gatherings and misbehaved in public when inebriated, according to numerous witnesses. His own mother once accused him of being “an abuser of women,” though she later retracted her claims when Hegseth was facing Senate confirmation.
Still, the Senate’s Republican majority, cowed by President Trump, confirmed his appointment. Hegseth has two qualities that Trump prizes above all others. He is blindly loyal to the president, and he looks good on TV.
In March, he shared classified information about an impending American airstrike in Yemen on an unsecured Signal group chat that included his wife, on purpose, and the editor of the Atlantic, by accident.
He is, in short, the least serious man ever to lead this nation’s armed forces.
As if all that weren’t dispiriting enough, Hegseth is now in bed (metaphorically) with a crusading Christian nationalist.
In the interview, Wilson expounded on his patriarchal, misogynistic, authoritarian and homophobic views.
Women, he said, should serve as “chief executive of the home” and should not have the right to vote. (Their men can do that for them.) Gay marriage and gay sex should be outlawed once again. “We know that sodomy is worse than slavery by how God responds to it,” he told CNN’s Pamela Brown. (Slavery is “unbiblical,” he avowed, though he did bizarrely defend it once, writing in 1990 a pamphlet that “slavery produced in the South a genuine affection between the races that we believe we can say has never existed in any nation before the War or since.”)
When a new outpost of his church opened in Washington, D.C ., in July, Hegseth and his family were among the worshippers. CNN described Hegseth’s presence as “a major achievement” for Wilson.
“All of Christ for All of Life,” wrote Hegseth as he endorsed and reposted the interview. That is the motto of Wilson’s expanding universe, which includes his Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho, the center of his Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches, a network of more than 100 churches on four continents, parochial schools, a college, a publishing house and media platforms. “All of Christ for All of Life” is a shorthand for the belief that Christian doctrines should shape every part of life — including government, culture and education.
Wilson is a prolific author of books with titles such as “Her Hand in Marriage,” “Federal Husband,” and “Reforming Marriage.” His book “Fidelity” teaches “what it means to be a one-woman man.” Doubtful it has crossed Hegseth’s desk.
“God hates divorce,” writes Wilson in one of his books.
Given the way sexual pleasure is celebrated in the Old and New Testaments, Wilson has a peculiarly dim view of sex. I mean, how many weddings have been graced with recitations from the Song of Solomon, with its thinly disguised allusions to pleasurable sexual intimacy? (“Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth! For your love is better than wine.”)
Wilson’s world is considerably less sensual.
“A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants,” he writes in “Fidelity.” “A woman receives, surrenders, accepts.” Mutual sexual pleasure seems out of the question: “The sexual act cannot be made into an egalitarian pleasuring party.” Ugh.
There is nothing particularly new here; Wilson’s ideology is just another version of patriarchal figures using religion to fight back against the equality movements of the late 19th and 20th centuries. They are basically the hatemongers of the Westboro Baptist Church dressed up in respectable clothing.
“Some people may conflate Christian nationalism and Christianity because they both use the symbols and language of Christianity, such as a Bible, a cross and worship songs,” says the group Christians Against Christian Nationalism on its website. “But Christian nationalism uses the veneer of Christianity to advance its own aims — to point to a political figure, party or ideology instead of Jesus.”
What you have in people like Hegseth and Wilson are authoritarian men who hide behind their religion to execute the most unchristian of agendas.
God may hate divorce, but from my reading of the Bible, God hates hypocrisy even more.
For centuries, mythology looked to gods to explain a disquieting world. But in the new documentary “Folktales,” from “Jesus Camp” filmmakers Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady, which follows a trio of jumbled Scandinavian teens to a remote Norwegian school that builds character in the snowy wild, the answer to life may just lie in what “god” spells backward.
In other words, yes, let’s go to the dogs: sled dogs, specifically, whose personalities, purpose and compatibility are the secret sauce to a lesson plan that seeks to get kids out of their heads and into a stronger sense of self. The beautiful Alaskan and Siberian huskies that animate the dog-sledding instruction at Norway’s Pasvik Folk High School are what help lift this handsomely photographed film above the usual heart warmer.
Ewing and Grady are no stranger to this scenario, having observed at-risk Baltimore youth striving for stability (“The Boys of Baraka”) and unhappy Hasidic Jews attempting to remove themselves from all they’ve ever known (“One of Us”). The situation is less sociologically dire in “Folktales,” but it isn’t any less compelling as a subject or less worthy of empathetic attention, especially when the stage for potential transformation is as rapturous as the birthplace of Vikings.
Pasvik is 200 miles north of the Arctic Circle, which means self-reliance isn’t optional and knitting carries more practical weight than learning a math formula. As gap-year institutions dedicated to nurturing the transition to adulthood, folk schools have roots going back to the 19th century. Pasvik sees survival training as unlocking potential in teens too devoted to their phone screens. As convivial dog-sledding teacher Iselin puts it to the students, she wants to “wake up your Stone Age brains.”
For anxious, bubbly 19-year-old Hege, who lost her father and struggles with image issues, unplugging is tough at first. But she responds to its benefits, especially when entrusted with the care of Odin, a gorgeous, lovable canine with an expressive howl. Socially awkward Bjorn wants to stop harboring sad thoughts and second-guessing his nerdiness. Nothing like a majestic creature who rewards your undivided attention, then, to refocus one’s energies. When the students are tasked with spending two nights in the forest alone with just their assigned huskies and camping acumen, their struggles give way to a turning point, what another kindhearted instructor describes as the special inner peace that comes with just “a fire, a dog and a starry sky.”
You also gather that Ewing and Grady may have been seeking some inspiration themselves. Hence, some arty montages of the icy wilderness (including some woo-woo yarn-and-tree symbolism) and an ambiance closer to warm spotlight than objective inquiry.
That makes “Folktales” decidedly more powdery than densely packed — it’s all ruddy cheeks, slo-mo camaraderie and the healing power of steering a dog sled through breathtaking terrain. It looks exhilarating, and if the filmmakers are ultimately there to play, not probe, that’s fine, even if you may not know these kids at the end any better than you did at the beginning. It’s hard to say whether negative-minded high school dropout Romain will wind up on the other side of what troubles him. But we see how happy he is making friends and catching a glimpse of moose in the wild. It’s a simple message, but “Folktales” sells it: Nurture via nature.
‘Folktales’
In Norwegian and English, with subtitles
Not rated
Running time: 1 hour, 46 minutes
Playing: Opens Friday, Aug. 1 at Laemmle Monica, Laemmle NoHo 7
Of all the pop hits vying to become the song of the summer, Alex Warren’s “Ordinary” might be the most improbable: A stark and brooding ballad full of lurid Christian imagery — “Shatter me with your touch / Oh Lord, return me to dust,” goes one line — it’s about a guy seeking the kind of sexual-spiritual fulfillment not typically found on the beach or at a barbecue.
Yet the song, which has more than 720 million streams on Spotify, just logged its sixth week since early June atop Billboard’s Hot 100 — more than a month longer at No. 1 than Sabrina Carpenter’s “Manchild,” to name one of the sunnier tunes soundtracking the season. (Among Warren’s other competitors: Drake, who posted an image of the current chart on Instagram on Monday showing his song “What Did I Miss?” at No. 2 behind Warren’s hit. “I’m taking that soon don’t worry,” the rapper wrote.)
“Ordinary’s” somber tone is all the more striking given that Warren — whose father died when he was 9 and who grew up in Carlsbad with a single mother he’s described as an abusive alcoholic — first made a name for himself as a founding member of Hype House, the early-2020s conclave of TikTokers known for beaming out goofy bite-size content from a rented mansion in Los Angeles. Half a decade later, Warren is still a faithful user of his TikTok account (with its 18.8 million followers), though these days he’s mostly driving attention — often with the help of his wife, fellow influencer Kouvr Annon — to his music, which combines the moody theatrics of early Sam Smith with the highly buffed textures of Imagine Dragons.
On Friday, Warren will release his debut LP, “You’ll Be Alright, Kid,” featuring guest appearances by Blackpink’s Rosé and by Jelly Roll, who brought Warren to the stage at April’s Stagecoach festival to sing “Ordinary” and to premiere their duet “Bloodline.” Warren, 24, discussed his journey during a recent trip to L.A. from his new home in Nashville, where he lives not far from Jelly Roll and Teddy Swims. “I was just texting Teddy,” Warren says as we sit down. “I got off tour and immediately was like, ‘Oh, I want to buy a go-kart.’ Teddy FaceTimes me, he goes, ‘You a—hole. I’m trying to buy a go-kart right now too.’ Apparently, I bought the last go-kart in Tennessee.” These are excerpts from our conversation.
“Ordinary” is clearly drawing on your identity as a Christian. Yet there’s something almost sacrilegious about the song. I get that criticism a lot.
To me it’s what makes the song interesting — the erotic energy in a line like “You got me kissing the ground of your sanctuary.” I’m worshiping my wife in a way — she’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me. You can’t just write a song like that and be like, “Oh, baby, you’re my everything.” Everyone’s already done “You’re my world,” you know? I wanted to do something different — almost Hozier-esque. I wrote into it being like, I really love my wife, and I have a relationship with God — that’s something I can compare it to.
As the song has gone out, I’ve heard a lot of Christians’ opinions on it, and some people are like, “F— this guy.” There’s also so many people who think it’s a super die-hard Christian song and don’t like it either. I have to be OK with both sides hating me.
You’ve led a peculiar life, which obviously lends context to your music for anyone who knows the details. Yet “Ordinary” is big enough now that many listeners — maybe most listeners — are hearing it without knowing anything about you. This new song I’ve been teasing [“Eternity”] is about grief, and people are like, “I can’t wait to play it at my wedding.” It’s cool that people are making it their own. It reminds me of Lewis Capaldi’s “Someone You Loved,” where people were like, “Oh my God, this is a breakup record.” No, he wrote it about his grandma.
Are you a Capaldi fan? I love Lewis. I don’t look like a Justin Bieber/Shawn Mendes traditional pop star, but it’s cool because Lewis kind of made it popular to not give a f—. Lewis and Ed [Sheeran], I would say — I mean, I’ve seen Ed’s closet, and it’s just nine white Prada T-shirts.
You have an unusual voice. Thank you — I think?
It’s deeper than most pop voices right now. Does it seem unusual to you? No. I asked my wife, “Do I have a basic voice?” She was like, “What are you talking about?” I was like, “I live with this voice, and I think it just sounds like every other bitch.” But I’m my No. 1 hater.
I went back and looked at the series Netflix made about Hype House. I’m so sorry.
There’s some significant fluctuations in your weight, and I was wondering how working in a visual field from a pretty young age shaped your ideas about eating and exercise. When I started making money, I didn’t know what to do with it and I just used DoorDash every second I could. As time went on, especially in Hype House, you have so many people’s opinions and everyone’s pointing out your flaws, and the weight was definitely one of them. After that I was like, “OK, how do I fix this?” I’m 24 now — I was 22, 21 at the time, and I was like, “I should be in the best shape of my life.”
But it definitely does take a toll on you. Even now, if you go look at my TikTok comments, thousands of people are loving me. You go on Twitter, the first 400 comments are like, “He’s so ugly,” “His nose is crooked,” all these things. It hits a point where you have a thousand people loving you, but those two people not — you’re like, “Wait, are they the ones telling me the truth? Is everyone else just gassing me up?”
Kind of bleak. It’s such a strange career. I have the Kids’ Choice Awards on Saturday, and I’m like, “Should I be eating this the next few days?”
Would you say you’re in a good place in terms of how you think about your physical appearance? Looking in the mirror, probably not. But when it comes to having to approve a photo, I don’t give a s—. I’ll approve whatever, double chin and all.
Is that true? Truly, I don’t mind, because I don’t think people are watching my videos for my attractiveness. That being said, if I was lighter, I think I’d be happier looking at myself. But at the same time, I don’t care because these songs to me are more about what they’re about and less about how I look. Also, it gives me some leeway if someone catches me lacking at In-N-Out.
Warren’s song “Ordinary” now has more than 720 million streams on Spotify and has just logged its sixth week since early June atop Billboard’s Hot 100.
(Ethan Benavidez / For The Times)
You’ve said you don’t really drink or do drugs but that you get drunk once a year. What would be the occasion? I just got drunk with Ed Sheeran — I drank two Modelos and I got put on my ass. This was at Santa’s Pub [in Nashville] — me, Noah Kahan and Ed Sheeran. They had just played something, and Ed was like, “Do you want a drink?” I was like, “If I’m getting drunk this year, it’s getting drunk with Ed Sheeran.” So he gave me a Modelo, and I was like, “Whoa, I’m feeling this.” He’s like, “OK, dude, I’m on my 11th.” He hands me a second one, and my wife had to drive me home.
So I’ve been getting a little loose with it. But it’s always beer — I don’t really drink any hard stuff. Nothing against it, I’ve just always preferred Diet Coke. I wish I liked alcohol.
I mean, you can cultivate this. It’s easy to do. I’ve been trying. I had a sip of my friend’s old fashioned. I thought it was interesting — sugary, but I liked it.
Your song “The Outside” on this new record talks about the illusory nature of happiness and success. I went into it wanting to write about the things that people go through to turn to God or another power or something to get out of their own heads. I wanted to depict people finding a sense of purpose.
“Hollywood wasn’t all that she thought / City of Angels but her wings got caught / She got high enough to think she met God.” You move to L.A. to pursue a dream and you see God after doing a hallucinogenic — that’s referencing a friend of mine who’s now a Christian buff who did ayahuasca. The other [verse] is about health care — watching my friends who don’t have it because it’s so expensive.
“‘It’s just stress,’ so the doctor says / His young heart’s beating out of his chest / Student loans and medical debt.” The Luigi Mangione case happened around the time we wrote that record.
Luigi was in your head as you were writing? That second verse is literally about Luigi Mangione. Not to get political, but the things that I feel are necessary in life — you have to pay for it, and it causes people to turn to something like God. The song ends with me being like, “I talk to my dad in the sky, hoping he talks to me back.” That song means a lot to me.
Your music is extremely tidy, which stands in contrast to the singer-songwriter mode of the Zach Bryans — And the Noah Kahans, where they’re flat in some parts and it doesn’t matter because the emotion’s there.
Why is your instinct as a musician to go for something neater? Because I don’t have the luxury of being able to make what some people view as mistakes. Coming from TikTok to music, I feel like it needs to be neat — it needs to be, “Oh my God, this guy can do this.” The next album I’m working on, it’s more rugged. I’m finding different parts of my voice. I’ve been listening to a lot of older music too, which has been really good.
Such as? Hall & Oates — dude, “Rich Girl”? Billy Joel too.
Is there still a Hype House group chat? I have a group chat with not all of them but the ones that — I’m not gonna name-drop them, but the ones getting popular with music. It was formative years in my life — my college experience, I guess. We’re able to look back on it and have a moment of, like, “That sucked, but it was also awesome.”
Would people in the house have called that you and Addison Rae would be the ones to break out as musicians? No, I don’t think so — especially not me. Maybe Addison — Addison has always been cool. Everyone loved Addison, even in the house, and she’s always been so kind. Even to this day, she’s a good friend of mine. But no one would have guessed me. I don’t think anyone liked me.
In the house? Just in general. The Netflix show — a lot of it was fake, but looking at that, I feel like I’m such a better person now.
“The next album I’m working on, it’s more rugged,” says Warren, whose debut LP “You’ll Be Alright, Kid” comes out Friday. “I’m finding different parts of my voice.”
(Ethan Benavidez / For The Times)
Are you glad that “Ordinary” happened after the influencer moment in your life — that there’s a bit of separation? I started this in 2020, 2021 — I put out my first song then, and I was still an influencer, vlogging, doing all those things. Everyone’s like, “He came out of nowhere,” and I’m like, I’ve been doing this for five years.
But nobody cared until well after your time as an influencer — which might be a good thing, right? I’m not sure the overlap served Lil Huddy. In a weird way, you might’ve gotten lucky. I think about that often. I made videos with my wife — I never really made videos with the content house — and those videos were successful in their own right. I think a lot of my fans today were watching me at that time, but not for the Hype House. Actually, no, that’s not true.
It’s hard to generalize about the audience for a song this big. All I do is put my head down and promote the records. I’m not paying attention to the scope of things.
Of course you’re checking the numbers. I’m not understanding the scope besides the numbers. My monthly listeners [on Spotify], someone told me it was 50-something million — that’s sick. But I can’t contextualize that. If I’m walking down the street, how many people have heard the song and how many people know who I am? I know the song is big, but I’m under the assumption that the record’s bigger than I am.
That seems true. OK, so what does that mean? I can compare it to a Lola Young, or is it a Benson Boone? I think that’s two separate things right now. Also, I don’t know the age demographic. If I walk into a bingo night, are they gonna know who I am?
A bingo night? You know what I’m saying. The song is No. 1 on Hot AC — that’s adult contemporary. Is it someone’s mom? I don’t know who’s listening to the record. But I write songs about people passing away, and most people — no matter rich, poor, whatever — it’s typically gonna be your 40-and-up who are gonna relate to that record. Kids don’t necessarily deal with loss the same way.
Is it weird to think that a significant portion of your audience is people twice your age? No, that’s f—ing rad to me — the older audience is the hardest to grab. I think it’s safe to say that most people judge notoriety on whether their mom knows who they are, right? If that’s where I start, that’s cool.
Chip Gaines had a few select words after Samaritan’s Purse founder Franklin Graham publicly criticized his and wife Joanna’s new HBO Max show for casting a same-sex couple with twins among the three families who are featured.
Graham, who is the son of evangelist Billy Graham, wrote Saturday on X that he found it “very disappointing” to hear that Jason Hanna, Joe Riggs and their boys, Ethan and Lucas, were included on “Back to the Frontier,” produced by Magnolia Network. Chip and Joanna Gaines created Magnolia and are executive producers on the show.
“I hope this isn’t true, but I read today that Chip and Joanna Gaines are featuring a gay couple in their new series. If It is true, it is very disappointing,” Graham wrote. “While we are to love people, we should love them enough to tell them the truth of God’s Word. His Word is absolute truth. God loves us, and His design for marriage is between one man and one woman. Promoting something that God defines as sin is in itself sin.”
The American Family Assn. — which bills itself as a “pro-family organization” and was formerly known as the National Federation for Decency — chimed in first, posting a statement from Vice President Ed Vitagliano saying, “This is sad and disappointing, because Chip and Joanna Gaines have been very influential in the evangelical community. Moreover, in the past, they have stood firm on the sanctity of marriage regardless of the personal cost that has entailed. We aren’t sure why the Gaines have reversed course, but we are sure of this: Back to the Frontier promotes an unbiblical view of human sexuality, marriage, and family — a view no Christian should embrace.”
Chip Gaines, who with his wife belongs to the evangelical Antioch Community Church in Waco, Texas, fired off what seemed to be a reply on Sunday.
“Talk, ask qustns, listen.. maybe even learn. Too much to ask of modern American Christian culture. Judge 1st, understand later/never,” he wrote on X. “It’s a sad sunday when ‘non believers’ have never been confronted with hate or vitriol until they are introduced to a modern American Christian.”
Matt Walsh, a conservative filmmaker, political commentator and podcast host at the Daily Wire, fired back at Chip Gaines with a response that said, “Maybe you should endeavor to understand the basic moral teachings of your own alleged religion before you give lectures to other people about their lack of understanding.”
Two hours after his “sad sunday” post, Gaines wrote that his family was off to worship, reposting a 2016 tweet in which he said, “In times of trouble.. you’ll find the gaines family at church.”
Meanwhile, on her Instagram on Tuesday, Joanna Gaines was promoting all the Magnolia Network shows nominated for Daytime Emmys.
Separate from the online back-and-forth, Jason Hanna and Joe Riggs have been posting about their family on their @2_dallas_dads Instagram account since the arrival of the twins in May 2014.
“When our boys were born — our twin boys were born via surrogacy in 2014 — we faced some legal challenges, and so we’ve always felt it it to be important that we try to be an example for same-sex couples,” Hanna told Queerty in a story published last week. “And so we’re super honored that, when they were choosing three modern day families, they did choose the same[-sex] couple as a modern-day family — because we are; we’re your neighbors, and your coworkers. And so it was this amazing opportunity to [continue to] normalize same-sex couples and same-sex families.”
“Back to the Frontier” throws three families — from Alabama, Florida and Texas — into an eight-week scenario that recalls the 1880s. Living on the “frontier,” the families have to reinforce their own shelters, raise livestock, collect food and manage their supplies. The goal by the end of the show is to gather enough resources to make it through winter. But don’t worry — the families are all back in modern air-conditioning right now.
“Through this immersive experience, the families will have to reflect on their relationships and navigate the challenges that come with an 1880s lifestyle,” HBO Max said in a release. The show premiered Thursday.
HBO Max did not reply immediately to The Times’ request for additional comment Tuesday.
Chip and Joanna Gaines were caught up in a different conflict over LGBTQ+ issues in May 2023 after Target, which carries the couple’s Magnolia Home line among its household items, came under fire for carrying transgender-targeted items as part of its seasonal Pride Month selections. Some critics also hammered Target’s recognition of Pride Month at all. A boycott was urged among right-wing conservatives. They also called for a comment from the couple.
“No one doubts that Chip and Joanna are good people, kind, moral, and aligned with American values,” Fox News host Rachel Campos-Duffy said at the time when she was subbing as host of “Jesse Watters Primetime.” “But if I had a line at a company and my name was on it and that brand partnered with a trans Satanist that makes tuck ‘em bikinis for kids, I would feel compelled to speak up.
“Now, maybe they’re raising questions internally. Of course, that’s possible, but why aren’t they doing so publicly?”
The person whom Campos-Duffy — wife of Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy — called a “trans Satanist” is London designer Erik Carnell, who is trans and whose Abprallen line had partnered with Target until the retailer ended the relationship under pressure from the boycott. Carnell’s full line included a design that said “Satan respects pronouns.” That design was never available at Target, according to CNN.
Conservative activist Benny Johnson also posted a video of himself in a Target store at the time, touring the Pride Month section, then walking what he said was “10 steps” to the Magnolia Home display. He referred to Joanna Gaines and her family sarcastically as “the paragons of Christian entrepreneurs and family values.”
“I’ve been tweeting about how Christian influencers Chip & Joanna Gaines have not disavowed Target’s Satanic child grooming despite the backlash,” he said. “What I didn’t know is the Gaines Section of Target is directly ACROSS from the Groomer section. Not cool.”
Chip and Joanna Gaines did not speak out during that controversy.
One Love Island star has shared how they’ve now found God years after leaving the ITV2 dating show. The video struck a chord with her fans online, racking up hundreds of likes
Katie was on Love Island back in 2016(Image: ITV)
Many Love Island stars go on to take other paths after being on the show. A lot of them become influencers, while some go back to their day jobs or start their own company. However, one Love Island star has revealed how’s now found God after being on the show.
Katie Salmon, 29, was on season two of the ITV2 dating show back in 2016, coming fourth place on the programme alongside Adam Maxted. She also made Love Island history on the show to form the first all-girl couple with the late Sophie Gradon. After leaving the programme, Katie decided to become an adult star and moved to Thailand. However after falling pregnant with her daughter, Thaiga, she decided to move back to the UK before giving birth in March 2022.
Becoming a mother made Katie to take a fresh look at her life, and she decided to make a major change. She continued being an adult star on OnlyFans for a while after having her daughter but realised it “wasn’t sitting right” with her.
She said she didn’t want her daughter doing the same work she was, sit it made her ‘really look at herself’. After then going through a tough break up with her daughter’s father, Katie said she began reading the bible and was baptised.
She ditched her adult career after finding God(Image: itskatiesalmon/Instagram)
Katie has recently been taking to TikTok on her @itskatiesalmon account to talk about her new life after finding God. One recent video saw her dancing as she wrote: “When people say you’re lying about following God but you left a 6-figure business to follow him and free yourself and now you have more peace than ever.”
Captioning the post, she added: “Excuse me sir. But I think you’ll find the proof is in the pudding. Two years and thriving.”
The video struck a chord with her fans, racking up hundreds of likes. One told her: “I watched you in Love Island and I’ve just watched your videos on here and you have a special glow about you now. Some things can’t be bought and you’re happiness is shining through.”
Katie replied: “Glory to God, he hears us when we call.”
Another person added: “That’s the best part of a relationship with God, it’s just between you and him. No one else has to see your sacrifice because only his view counts ever,” to which Katie replied: “Amen.”
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Talking about finding religion to OK! magazine back in December 2023, Katie said: “I was obviously doing OnlyFans after I had my baby, but it wasn’t really sitting right with me. It helped me step away from the platform and really take a bigger look. And I found that every time I’d go on social media, all my pages were covered in the same thing that I was doing, and it made me realise that I didn’t want my daughter to be doing what I was doing, and I’d do everything in my power to make sure she doesn’t.
“That made me really look at myself and think that it was time for changes. I couldn’t just step away from the money, but unfortunately I had to in the end and it turned out to be the best thing for me.”
She added: “When I found a relationship with God, I really found a lot of truths in my opinion on what the Bible says about how we should cherish our temple and not abuse it.”
“I was seeking to be heard and to be found by someone for the help. In that moment, I found God and I felt like I was being guided to attend the church and to open the Bible and I found comfort in that.
“When I actually did attend church and open the Bible, I found a lot of comfort and a lot of healing with that which led me to getting baptised and my life has transformed since I’ve been baptised.”
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Katie’s new-found religion has also no doubt helped her through a tragedy she went through last year when the father of her daughter died.
Katie posted a photo of ex-fiancé Harry and their daughter Thiaga at the time to announce his death alongside an emotional message in which she said she was trying to ‘navigate this pain’. The cause of death is unknown.
She wrote at the time: ‘Trying to navigate this pain. The highest highs and the lowest lows with you. It’s so sad to know you’ll never see what a beautiful little girl she is or who she will become.
‘I hope your soul finds peace Harry [heartbreak emoji].’
Katie is now in a relationship with businessman Joe Rossi, with him regularly featuring in her online posts.
After ordering the United States military to bomb Iran last month, US President Donald Trump made a brief address at the White House to laud the “massive precision strike” that had allegedly put a “stop to the nuclear threat posed by the world’s number one state sponsor of terror”.
The speech, which lasted less than four minutes, ended with the invocation of God’s name no fewer than five times in a span of seven seconds: “And I wanna just thank everybody and in particular, God. I wanna just say, ‘We love you God, and we love our great military – protect them.’ God bless the Middle East, God bless Israel, and God bless America.”
Of course, the terminology deployed in the speech was problematic before we even got to the rapid-fire mention of the Almighty by a man who has never been particularly religious. For one thing, Iran simply lacks the credentials to qualify as the world’s “number one state sponsor of terror”; that position is already occupied by the US itself, which, unlike Iran, has spent the entirety of its contemporary history bombing and otherwise antagonising folks in every last corner of the Earth.
The US has also continued to serve as the number one state sponsor of Israel, whose longstanding policy of terrorising Palestinians and other Arabs has now culminated in an all-out genocide in the Gaza Strip, as Israel seeks to annihilate the territory and its inhabitants along with it.
But anyway, “God bless Israel.”
This, to be sure, was not the first time that Trump relied on God to sign off on worldly events. Back in 2017, during the man’s first stint as president, the deity made various appearances in Trump’s official statement following a US military strike on Syria. God, it seems, just can’t get enough of war.
God made a prominent return in January 2025, taking centre stage in Trump’s inauguration speech – yet another reminder that the separation of church and state remains one of the more transparently disingenuous pillars of American “democracy.” In his address, the president revealed the true reason he had survived the widely publicised assassination attempt in Pennsylvania in July 2024: “I was saved by God to make America great again.”
Part of making America great again was supposed to be focusing on ourselves instead of, you know, getting wrapped up in other people’s wars abroad. But the beauty of having God on your side means you really don’t have to explain too much in the end; after all, it’s all divine will.
Indeed, Trump’s increasing reliance on the Almighty can hardly be interpreted as a come-to-Jesus moment or a sudden embrace of the faith. Rather, God-talk comes in handy in the business of courting white evangelical Christians, many of whom already see Trump himself as a saviour in his own right based on his valiant worldwide war on abortion, among other campaigns to inflict earthly suffering on poor and vulnerable people.
The evangelical obsession with Israel means Trump has earned big saviour points in that realm, as well. In 2019, for example, the president took to Twitter to thank Wayne Allyn Root – an American Jewish-turned-evangelical conservative radio host and established conspiracy theorist – for his “very nice words,” including that Trump was the “best President for Israel in the history of the world” and that Israeli Jews “love him like he’s the King of Israel”.
And not only that: Israelis also “love him like he is the second coming of God”.
Obviously, anyone with an ego as big as Trump’s has no problem playing God – especially when he already believes that his every proclamation should spontaneously be made reality, biblical creation story-style.
Former Arkansas governor and zealous evangelical Mike Huckabee, who once declared that “there is no such thing as a Palestinian” and who is now serving as Trump’s ambassador to Israel, has done his own part to encourage the president’s messiah complex, writing in a text message to Trump that “I believe you hear from heaven … You did not seek this moment. This moment sought YOU!”
So it was only fitting that Trump should thank and profess love for God after bombing Iran in accordance with Israel’s wishes – not that US and Israeli interests don’t align when it comes to sowing regional havoc and ensuring the flow of capital into arms industry coffers.
And yet, Trump is not the only US head of state to have enjoyed wartime communications with God. Recall the time in 2003 that then-President and “war on terror” chief George W Bush informed Palestinian ministers of his “mission from God”.
Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath would go on to quote snippets from Bush’s side of the conversation: “God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.’ And I did, and then God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.’ And I did.”
Now, Trump doesn’t like to take orders from anyone, even if they’re from on high. However, he’s made it clear that he’s not opposed to ingratiating himself with God in the interest of political expediency.
Some evangelical adherents see the current upheaval in the Middle East as potentially expediting the so-called “end times” and the second coming of Jesus – which means the more war, the better. And the more that God can be portrayed as an ally in US and Israeli-inflicted devastation, the better for Trump’s delusions of deification.
The views expressed in this article are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera’s editorial stance.
“Unfortunately, most of the news that you get in prison is bad news,” Julie Chrisley told Lara Trump in a family interview set to air Saturday on Fox News Channel. So when she got the good news, her fellow inmates didn’t immediately understand what they were seeing.
“They’re like, ‘Are you OK?’” Julie said.
In fact, she hadn’t been 100% OK when she first heard from daughter Savannah that President Trump had signed off on the creme de la creme of get-out-of-jail-free cards.
“I just busted out crying” when her daughter broke the news, Julie said. “Everyone was looking around, and then I just hung up. I was so nervous that I just hung up.”
Savannah was the one who appealed to the president to free her parents. During the Republican National Convention, she gave a speech about the “rogue prosecutors” who put her parents behind bars.
At least Julie hung up on her daughter and not POTUS. But now the folks around her were asking her if she was OK. “I’m like, ‘I am!’” she said, grasping her husband and daughter’s hands as she recalled the moment. “I’m getting out of here!”
Julie and husband Todd, the Georgia couple who gained fame through “Chrisley Knows Best,” the USA Network series that showcased their luxurious lifestyle and zany family dynamic, were back in their bleach-blond glory sitting with two of their five kids, Savannah and son Chase, on Lara Trump’s couch.
There had been no hair color for the inmates after they were sentenced to 12 years (him) and seven years (her) for tax evasion, conspiracy and wire fraud. He was sent to a federal prison in Pensacola, Fla., while she was doing time in Lexington, Ky. Probation after incarceration awaited them both. The pardons changed all that.
Todd Chrisley was a little cooler than his wife had been when the news came his way. He was walking through FPC Pensacola when someone stopped him and told him he just got pardoned.
“I said, ‘Yeah, OK’ and I just went right on walking,” apparently dismissing what he’d just heard as trash talk. He walked all the way back to his dorm, only to have a corrections officer come by soon after and ask him if he was “good.”
“I said, ‘As good as I can be,’” he told Lara Trump with a little snark in his delivery. But the CO was serious.
The officer told the reality star that he had been pardoned and that he’d been sent to check on Chrisley to make sure he was OK.
Todd recalled saying, “They don’t need to be worried about me now! If I’m pardoned, I’m great!”
The Chrisley patriarch also shared how it felt when he saw wife Julie for the first time in 28 months.
“When I hugged her the first time, it was like I was home. … We have changed,” he said. “And if we did not change in these 28 months, it would have been wasted.”
Todd gave it up to the Almighty as well. “God touched President Trump’s heart,” he said. “God led the people to advocate for us. And so I’m grateful, because every night I would pray that God would return me home to my children. And he did that, so I’m grateful.”
Both Chrisleys have said they intend to advocate in the future for prisoners who are still behind bars.
“My View With Lara Trump,” which includes her full interview with Todd, Julie, Savannah and Chase Chrisley, airs Saturday at 6 p.m. local time (9 p.m. Eastern) on Fox News Channel.
Sabrina Carpenter divided fans earlier this month with her choice of cover art for her forthcoming album, “Man’s Best Friend.” Playing on the title, she poses on all fours like a dog while a faceless man pulls her hair.
While some interpreted the cover as cheeky and ironic — especially given the themes of the album’s first single, “Manchild” — others accused the former Disney Channel star of promoting sexist stereotypes and setting women‘s rights back decades.
Carpenter has addressed criticism by releasing an alternative cover “approved by God,” the singer revealed Wednesday on Instagram.
The black-and-white image seemingly channels Marilyn Monroe as the singer, dressed in an elegant beaded gown, leans against a man in a suit. Carpenter is front and center while the man‘s face is partially hidden.
This isn’t the first time Carpenter has ruffled some feathers.
In 2023, she received backlash from the Catholic Church after she filmed parts of her “Feather” music video at the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Church. The Diocese of Brooklyn said it was “appalled” by the nature of the video and the priest who allowed her to film there was removed from his administrative duties.
When asked about the incident in an interview with Variety, Carpenter responded, “Jesus was a carpenter.” She doubled down during her Coachella debut in 2024, wearing a shirt with the same phrase.
The singer has also raised eyebrows on her Short n’ Sweet Tour, which returns to North America this fall. During her sultry performance of “Juno,” she acts out a different sex position every night.
Carpenter addressed the criticism that she’s shaped her entire brand around sex in her June cover story with Rolling Stone.
“It’s always funny to me when people complain,” she said. “They’re like, ‘All she does is sing about this.’ But those are the songs that you’ve made popular. Clearly you love sex. You’re obsessed with it. It’s in my show. There’s so many more moments than the ‘Juno’ positions, but those are the ones you post every night and comment on. I can’t control that.”
In a since-deleted post, an X user shared the first “Man’s Best Friend” cover and asked, “Does she have a personality outside of sex?” Carpenter responded, “Girl yes and it is goooooood.”
Among those who came to Carpenter’s defense of the original album art was “You’re So Vain” singer Carly Simon, who received backlash for the cover of her 1975 album, “Playing Possum.”
“She’s not doing anything outrageous,” Simon told Rolling Stone. “It seems tame. There have been far flashier covers than hers. One of the most startling covers I’ve ever seen was [the Rolling Stones’] ‘Sticky Fingers.’ That was out there in terms of sexual attitude. So I don’t know why she’s getting such flak.”
“Man’s Best Friend” will be released Aug. 29, a little over a year after Carpenter’s last project, “Short n’ Sweet.” Signed editions and copies with the alternative cover are available for preorder on her website.
June 8 (UPI) — Pope Leo asked God to “open borders, break down walls and dispel hatred,” during Sunday mass with tens of thousands of people in St. Peter’s Square Sunday.
The pontiff has been critical of nationalist political movements and the “exclusionary mindset” they convey, but did not name a specific country or government.
“There is no room for prejudice , for ‘security zones’ separating us from our neighbors, for the exclusionary mindset that, unfortunately, we now see emerging in political nationalisms,” the pope said during the mass.
Leo added that the church “must open the borders between peoples and break down the barriers between class and race.”
“People must move beyond our fear of those who are different,” he continued, and said the Holy Spirit “breaks down barriers and tears down the walls of indifference and hatred.”
While the pontiff did not mention President Donald Trump by name, he has been critical of his administration and policies.
Prior to ascending to pope in May, Leo, formerly known as Cardinal Robert Prevost, routinely posted negative comments about Trump and vice-president JD Vance on social media. The Prevost X account was deactivated shortly after he became pope.
Prior to Leo, pope Francis, who died earlier this year, was also critical of Trump.
“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not a Christian,” Francis said about Trump when asked about him in 2016.
WILLIAMSTOWN, Ky. — As a colossal manifestation of the biblical Noah’s Ark rises incongruously from the countryside of northern Kentucky, Ken Ham gives the presentation he’s often repeated.
The ark stretches 1½ football fields long — “the biggest free-standing timber-frame structure in the world,” Ham says. It holds three massive decks with wooden cages, food storage urns, life-size animal models and other exhibits.
It’s all designed to try to persuade visitors that the biblical story was literally true — that an ancient Noah really could have built such a sophisticated ship. That Noah and a handful of family members really could have sustained thousands of animals for months, floating above a global flood that drowned everyone else in the wicked world.
“That’s what we wanted to do through many of the exhibits, to show the feasibility of the ark,” says Ham, the organizer behind the Ark Encounter theme park and related attractions.
And with that, he furthers his goal to assert that the entire Book of Genesis should be interpreted as written — that humans were created by God’s fiat on the sixth day of creation on an Earth that is only 6,000 years old.
All this defies the overwhelming consensus of modern scientists — that the Earth developed over billions of years in “deep time” and that humans and other living things evolved over millions of years from earlier species.
But Ham wants to succeed where he believes William Jennings Bryan failed.
Bryan — a populist secretary of State, congressman, three-time presidential hopeful and fundamentalist champion — helped the prosecution in the famous Scopes monkey trial, which took place 100 years ago this July in Dayton, Tenn.
Bryan’s side won in court — gaining the conviction of public schoolteacher John Scopes for violating state law against teaching human evolution. But Bryan was widely seen as suffering a humiliating defeat in public opinion, with his sputtering attempts to explain the Bible’s fanciful miracles and enigmas.
‘The history in the Bible is true’
For Ham, Bryan’s problem was not that he defended the Bible. It’s that he didn’t defend it well enough, interpreting parts of it metaphorically rather than literally.
“It showed people around the world that Christians don’t really believe the Bible — they can’t answer questions to defend the Christian faith,” Ham says.
“We want you to know that we’ve got answers,” Ham adds, speaking in the accent of his native Australia.
Ham is founder and chief executive of Answers in Genesis, which opened the Ark Encounter in 2016. The Christian theme park includes a zoo, zip lines and other attractions surrounding the ark.
Nearly a decade earlier, Answers in Genesis opened a Creation Museum in nearby Petersburg, Ky., where exhibits similarly try to make the case for a literal interpretation of the biblical creation narrative. Visitors are greeted with a diorama depicting children and dinosaurs interacting peacefully in the Garden of Eden.
The group also produces books, podcasts, videos and homeschooling curricula.
“The main message of both attractions is basically this: The history in the Bible is true,” Ham says. “That’s why the message of the Gospel based on that history is true.”
A commonly held belief
If Ham is the most prominent torchbearer for creationism today, he’s hardly alone.
Polls generally show that somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 3 Americans hold beliefs consistent with young-Earth creationism, depending on how the question is asked. A 2024 Gallup poll found that 37% of U.S. adults agreed that “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.”
That percentage is down a little, but not dramatically, from its mid-40s level between the 1980s and 2012. Rates are higher among religious and politically conservative respondents.
“Scopes lost, but the public sense was that the fundamentalists lost” and were dwindling away, says William Vance Trollinger Jr., a professor of history and religious studies at the University of Dayton in Ohio.
But the reach of Answers in Genesis demonstrates that “a significant subset of Americans hold to young-Earth creationism,” says Trollinger, co-author with his wife, English professor Susan Trollinger, of the 2016 book “Righting America at the Creation Museum.”
Leading science organizations say it’s crucial to teach evolution and old-Earth geology. Evolution is “one of the most securely established of scientific facts,” says the National Academy of Sciences. The Geological Society of America states: “Evolution and the directly related concept of deep time are essential parts of science curricula.”
The issue has been repeatedly legislated and litigated since the Scopes trial. Tennessee repealed its anti-evolution law in 1967. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1968 that a similar Arkansas law was an unconstitutional promotion of religion, and in 1987 it overturned a Louisiana law requiring that creationism be taught alongside evolution. A federal court in 2005 similarly forbade a Pennsylvania school district to present “intelligent design,” a different approach to creationism that argues life is too complex to have evolved by chance.
Bill Nye, the alarmed guy
Some lawmakers have recently revived the issue. The North Dakota Legislature this year debated a bill that would have allowed public school teaching on intelligent design. A new West Virginia law vaguely allows teachers to answer student questions about “scientific theories of how the universe and/or life came to exist.”
The Scopes trial set a template for today’s culture-war battles, with efforts to expand vouchers for attendees of private schools, including Christian ones teaching creationism; and to introduce Bible-infused lessons and Ten Commandments displays in public schools.
Such efforts alarm science educators such as Bill Nye, the television “Science Guy,” whose 2014 debate with Ham was billed as “Scopes II” and has generated millions of video views online.
“What you get out of religion, as I understand it, is this wonderful sense of community,” Nye says. “Community is very much part of the human experience. But the Earth is not 4,000 years old. To teach that idea to children with any backing — be it religious or these remarkable ideas that humans are not related to, for example, chimpanzees or bonobos — is breathtaking. It’s silly. And so we fight this fight.”
Nye notes that the evidence is overwhelming, ranging from fossil layers to the distribution of species. “There are trees older than Mr. Ham thinks the world is,” he adds.
Varying religious views
One weekday in March, visitors milled about the Ark Encounter and Creation Museum, which draw an estimated 1.5 million visits per year (including duplicate visits).
“We are church-going, Bible-believing Christians,” says Louise van Niekerk of Ontario, Canada, who traveled with her family to the Creation Museum. She’s concerned that her four children are faced with a public school curriculum permeated with evolution.
The Creation Museum, Van Niekerk says, “is encouraging a robust alternate worldview from what they’re being taught.”
Many religious groups accommodate evolution, though.
Gallup’s survey found that among Americans who believe in evolution, more say it happened with God’s guidance (34%) than without it (24%). In the Roman Catholic Church, popes have shown openness to evolution while insisting that the human soul is a divine creation. Many liberal Protestants and even some evangelicals have accepted at least parts of evolutionary theory.
But among many evangelicals, creationist belief is strong.
The Southern Baptist Convention, the nation’s largest evangelical body, has promoted creationist beliefs in its publications. The Assemblies of God asserts that Adam and Eve were historical people. Some evangelical schools, such as Bryan’s namesake college in Tennessee, affirm creationist beliefs in their doctrinal statements.
A wider debate
Just as Ham says the creation story is important to defend a larger truth about the Christian Gospel, critics say more is at stake than just the human origin story.
The Trollingers wrote that the Answers in Genesis enterprise is an “arsenal in the culture war.” They say it aligns with Christian nationalism, promoting conservative views in theology, family and gender roles, and casting doubt on other areas of scientific consensus, such as human-made climate change.
Nye, too, says the message fits into a more general and ominous anti-science movement. “Nobody is talking about climate change right now,” he laments.
Exhibits promote a “vengeful and violent” God, says Susan Trollinger, noting the cross on the ark’s large door, which analogizes that just as the wicked perished in the flood, those without Christ face eternal hellfire.
And there are more parallels to 1925.
Bryan had declaimed, “How can teachers tell students that they came from monkeys and not expect them to act like monkeys?” The Creation Museum, which depicts violence, drugs and other social ills as resulting from belief in evolution, is “Bryan’s social message on steroids,” wrote Edward Larson in a 2020 afterword to “Summer for the Gods,” a Pulitzer Prize-winning account of the Scopes trial.
More attractions planned
The protests that initially greeted the museum and ark projects, from secularist groups who considered them embarrassments to Kentucky, have ebbed.
When the state initially denied a tourism tax rebate for the Ark Encounter because of its religious nature, a federal court overturned that ruling. Representing Ham’s group was a Louisiana lawyer named Mike Johnson — now speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.
And Ham’s massive ministry charges forward. Expansion is next, with Answers in Genesis attractions planned for Pigeon Forge, Tenn., and Branson, Mo. — tourist hubs offering more opportunities to promote creationism to the masses.
Todd Bigelow, visiting the Ark Encounter from Mesa, Ariz., says he believes that the exhibit vividly evoked the safety that Noah and his family must have felt. It helped him appreciate “the opportunities God gives us to live the life we have, and hopefully make good choices and repent when we need to,” he says.
“I think,” Bigelow adds, “God and science can go hand in hand.”
Smith writes for the Associated Press. AP writer Dylan Lovan contributed to this report.
The El Paso-born artist spoke with The Times about how Robert Eggers and Catholicism inspired her new album, “And You Who Drowned in the Grief of a Golden Thing”
King Mala wants to put it all out there. And she is — at a breakneck pace.
The 26-year-old alt-pop singer released her (positively) nightmare-inducing debut album, “And You Who Drowned in the Grief of a Golden Thing,” on May 2. Since then she’s been on the road, touring along the West Coast from Vancouver to Los Angeles in support of Canadian singer Lights. After her recent appearance with Lights at the Roxy, King Mala will return to L.A. for her own headlining show at the Troubadour on June 26.
When joining a Zoom call with The Times, King Mala, whose real name is Areli Castro, admitted to running on fumes. Having just driven from Portland, Ore., to Seattle in the wee hours of the morning, Castro was contending with a central theme of her album in real time: the chasm between her dreams and the limits of her corporeal form.
“There’s this struggle between the things you want and the things you are,” said Castro. “I just love the idea of playing with grandeur and gods while still maintaining a very like human and gross and visceral vibe.”
Despite it all, she’s maintained a sunny disposition — a stark departure from the moody and dramatic feel of singles like “Ode to a Black Hole.” The macabre visuals from her current musical era evoke the same mystical energy as “True Detective” and 2024’s surprise horror hit, “Longlegs.”
Born in the border town of El Paso to a Mexican father and Puerto Rican mother, the musician grew up attending Catholic church and listening to a lot of soul music, a genre she now describes as her “bread and butter.” While she doesn’t feel stereotypically Texan, Castro still feels spiritually yoked to El Paso.
“El Paso is very, very non-Texas,” Castro said. “When I go to the rest of Texas, I’m like, ‘This isn’t my Texas.’ I grew up on [the] border — Southwestern vibes — and it’s so different than Austin or Dallas. I feel like a desert witch.”
That desert witchiness emanates from the mesmerizing sonic loops and negative space deployed in her songs, which she pairs with “found” footage inspired by ghost hunting shows, ornate Catholic crosses and sandy landscapes captured in her music videos.
Castro also spoke with The Times about how she mapped out her debut album and the life experiences that helped shape her gothic sensibilities.
This interview has been edited and shortened for clarity.
When it comes to the aesthetics of the album, it employs a lot of religious aspects. What was the intention with that? I love religious metaphor. I find it so grand and ancient and fun to use as a vehicle to tell a story. I’m very obsessed with the collective unconscious and how we keep telling the same stories over and over and over. So using stories that I really admire as the vehicle for this was really fun. There’s just a power struggle in this album that I wanted to capture. And it felt like using the metaphor of God and humanity and of, “How do you exist as a powerful person, while also still maintaining your humanity?” That was the whole point of the album.
Does that attraction to religion and these grand ideas come from your own habit or was it a thing from when you were growing up that influenced you? I grew up very Catholic, like cradle Catholic. My grandma always wanted us to go to Mass, so we adhered to that. But I was home schooled and the home school community is very Christian. And so I was sort of indoctrinated into that for a good amount of my formative years — middle school [and] early high school. It was very harmful and strange.
It was very interesting to see how predatory the religion is. It’s looking for kids who are lonely and scared and promising solace, which is nice, but then there’s always a backhand that’s like, “Oh, but you have to do this and you have to adhere to this and you have to follow our rules.”
Yeah, I’ve got a little bit of religious trauma to say the least. … Once I was out of that cycle and community, I realized it’s really all very similar to a cult. At what point does a cult transition into just a full religion? Is it just enough people believe it? I don’t know. So that was a bunch of the stuff that I was thinking about as we made this.
What are some media that you draw inspiration from? I’m a big, big, big horror girlie. So that was a big inspiration. I love that being a human is so gross and I feel like we don’t realize that half the time because we’re so used to it. I love body horror. I love [movies like] “The Substance” and “The Witch.” I’m very obsessed with Robert Eggers and the way he makes beautiful, beautiful horror.
Going into [the album] I wanted to do it the way we did humanity. I wanted it to be very gross and visceral and real and if we were going to do sexy, I wanted it to be very raw. And if we were going to do body horror, I wanted it to be very intentional and intense.
Do you feel like the grossness of being human is kind of beautiful? I love it. We’re so weird, especially our relationships to each other. It’s so sweet and strange and we love to hold hands and touch our mouths together. It’s so cute and gross and funny. I love thinking of us like we’re aliens. Like if some other creature saw us, they’d be like, “What the f— are they doing?” It’s really funny.
Are there musical acts that you drew inspiration from for this album? For this record, we drew a lot of inspiration from “22, a Million” by Bon Iver, from Radiohead, from old school hip hop and rap. Kendrick Lamar and old Kanye West … We had a big playlist. Phantogram was on there, The xx is on there, Portishead, Little Simz — she was a big inspo — Doechii, Rico Nasty.
I was drawing from a bunch of different directions. [The production team] knew we had to create this sonic landscape before we started making the record. We wanted to do analog drums and hip-hop beats with reverbed-out, textural guitar, à la Mk.gee. We just wanted it to feel alive and analog.
What do you want people to get out of your live show? I want people to ascend and join the character. I want it to feel like a movie. I want these songs to live and breathe and sort of experience themselves through everyone in the audience. I think live shows create like such an energy between people. I want it to feel like we’re going to church, like we’re going on a journey together. That’s the goal.
About 80 years ago, guitarist and inventor Les Paul built a home recording studio in his Hollywood garage on North Curson Avenue and began developing his “new sound,” which incorporated cutting-edge recording techniques such as overdubbing, close miking, echo and delay.
Dissatisfied with the quality of the day’s commercial recordings, Paul, who’d worked with pop stars including Bing Crosby and the Andrews Sisters, and was a guitar virtuoso and bandleader, endeavored to push the practice forward — to make recording a kind of erudite art form. His instrumental single “Lover” became the first commercial pop record to incorporate multiple layers of music, all of which were performed by Paul’s dexterous fingers. “Sextuplet guitar-ing,” Billboard magazine declared in its Feb. 21, 1948, review, “… technique so good it’s ridiculous.”
Today, a new studio in Hollywood celebrates the former Angeleno’s legacy as a recording pioneer. Over the last three years, the Les Paul Foundation and a team of engineers have gone to extraordinary lengths to build the Les Paul Recording Studio, housed in United Recording on Sunset Boulevard. The facility includes Paul’s original equipment, such as the first-ever multitrack Ampex tape machine and multitrack recording console, as well as a selection of Paul’s customized guitars, including his namesake model for Gibson.
Paul’s recording equipment is monumental for its historical value but also because it still works. “We have the Wright Brothers’ plane in there and it actually flies,” said Michael Braunstein, executive director of the Les Paul Foundation, by way of comparison. The new studio is essentially a rare hands-on museum where students and commercial artists may study and perform the same techniques Paul employed, using his tools.
Los Angeles-based musician Dweezil Zappa interviewed Paul on MTV in 1987, which created a fondness between the pair. During a phone call from the road — Zappa was on a tour celebrating his father’s album “Apostrophe” — he explained the importance of Paul’s innovations. “He was so far ahead of the game in so many ways, not only as a great guitar player, but also how he figured out ways to record music live,” he said. “The foundation of the sound capture is still better than anything else that you would find today. The products that were put into use and the way that it was machined … it’s unmatched.”
Zappa says he’s visited the new studio and intends to use it to record some of his own music after his tour concludes. The studio also has an educational mission.
“This is also a real opportunity for students to learn about analog recording from the master,” said Steve Rosenthal, a Grammy-winning producer who serves as the head archivist and music producer for the Les Paul Foundation. Rosenthal’s also known for his Manhattan recording studio the Magic Shop, which closed in 2016, where he worked with David Bowie, Lou Reed, Sonic Youth, Ramones and many others.
Tom Camuso, director of audio engineering at the Les Paul Recording Studio, is photographed in Hollywood on May 15.
(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)
Groups from Carnegie Mellon University and Syracuse University have already participated in seminars at the studio led by Rosenthal and Tom Camuso, a Grammy-winning engineer who’s also the Les Paul Foundation’s director of audio engineering. “The console looks like it’s from a battleship, and we let students record on it and see how hard it is compared to today’s digital audio workstations,” Camuso explained. “The connection they make is that this is where it started, this is the first of all of it.”
The idea for the studio began in 2022 amid Rosenthal’s quest to source, organize, curate and restore Paul’s vast catalog of music from the Library of Congress archives. “It became clear to me that the best solution would be to mix the music on Les’ original gear,” he said. He brought in Camuso, a longtime associate who’d worked at the Magic Shop, and the pair endeavored to repair the eight-track recording console nicknamed “The Monster” that Paul built with engineer Rein Narma, which featured leading-edge in-line equalization and vibrato effects.
They also retrieved Paul’s Ampex 5258 Sel-Sync multitrack tape machine, familiarly known as the Octopus, which sits alongside the console, and was the first-ever eight-track. The studio also has a three-track machine that was in Paul’s home in Mahwah, N.J., which he used to play tapes recorded at other studios. At the time, Paul was the only person with eight-track capabilities. “That was his way of communicating with the outside world, so to speak,” Camuso said.
The first-ever multitrack tape machine, called “The Octopus,” resides at the Les Paul Recording Studio in Hollywood.
(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)
The equipment was in varying stages of disrepair, and there was no documentation accompanying it. Many of the recording console’s wires had been cut, and some of its modules were missing. Camuso and a group from Thump Recording Studios in Brooklyn spent 10 months replacing and repairing pieces that were missing or had failed, without changing anything about the way the machine was originally made. “We had to source old stock parts from the ’50s,” Camuso said, “and there were little plastic pieces that had disintegrated. The team would drum scan those and then 3D print them in their original form.” An Ampex expert from Canada broke down the tape machines and then rebuilt them from the ground up, exactly as they were when Paul used them.
Before he used the multitrack tape machine and recording console, Paul’s early experiments with overdubbing, or what he called “sound on sound,” involved two recording-cutting lathes, a record player, a mixer and hundreds of blank wax discs, all of which he used to layer tracks manually. In 1948, Bing Crosby gave Paul his first mono Ampex recorder, to which Paul added a second playback head, which enabled him to record multiple tracks on the same reel of tape. He and his second wife, Mary Ford, took this machine on the road, recording their songs in hotel rooms and in apartments.
Ford was a skilled singer with perfect pitch who could execute lead vocals and harmonize with herself in very few takes using Paul’s early version of multitracking, which was revolutionary but primitive and didn’t allow for mistakes. Given the analog nature of Paul’s setup, she had to sing everything live and unmanipulated. The pair recorded a string of 28 hit singles between 1950 to 1957, beginning with a cover of the jazz standard “How High the Moon.” They were so popular that Listerine sponsored a widely syndicated television show, “Les Paul & Mary Ford at Home,” during which they performed their intricate songs live.
A photograph of Les Paul inside his recording studio in New Jersey is displayed at the Les Paul Recording Studio in Hollywood.
(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)
“Their discs sell like dimes going for a nickel,” Florabel Muir reported in the Los Angeles Mirror in January 1952. The pair’s “Vaya Con Dios” spent 11 weeks at No. 1 on the Billboard Best Sellers in Stores chart (which was discontinued in favor of the Billboard Hot 100 in 1958). Paul and Ford’s sultry version of “Smoke Rings,” released in 1952, features in Todd Haynes’ 2015 film “Carol.”
“The only singer I’ve encountered in my life who can compare to Mary is Aretha Franklin,” said Gene Paul, Les’ son from his first marriage, who became a recording engineer for Atlantic Records. “Neither one of them ever hit a bad note. You couldn’t pay them to.” The younger Paul learned about recording in his father’s home studio in Mahwah and played drums in his touring band from 1959 to 1969. “It took me years after my dad died to realize he was a genius,” he added. “Yes, he had a studio in his house, and built his own guitar and his own eight-track, but I thought every dad did this.”
Rosenthal and Camuso are in the process of restoring Paul’s original recordings, including his hits with Ford. The pair is using demixing and speed correction software to create new stereo mixes of the songs, which don’t have any of the crunchiness or distortion that were a byproduct of Paul’s original experiments in multitracking. It’ll be the first time any of Paul’s music has been released in stereo. The project has created a library of multitrack stems, which is another singular feature of the new studio. “Lana Del Rey could come in and sing with Mary Ford, or she could sing ‘A Fool to Care’ with the original Les Paul guitar parts,” Rosenthal said.
Guitars on display inside the Les Paul Recording Studio in Hollywood.
(Christina House / Los Angeles Times)
Camuso says a number of famous musicians have already expressed interest in using the new studio. “There’s lots of people who would be in your record collection for sure,” he said. Its historical significance and superior sound quality is a major draw, but the Les Paul Recording Studio also provides a chance for musicians to work more intentionally. Though its equipment was once cutting-edge, by today’s digital standards — in which there are unlimited tracks and effects and every mistake is erasable — Paul’s console and tape machines are limited. To work with them, musicians must think about what they want to record ahead of time. “The average person may not know what they’re hearing, but they will feel it because the performances will be better,” Zappa pointed out.
He views the new studio as a welcome counterpart to the too-perfect sonic monotony that can occur from every commercial recording artist using the same software. “There’s just so much music that’s disposable today,” Zappa added. “We’ve never had as many amazing tools to make stuff, and then have it be used in the lamest way possible.”
