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Netflix on Tuesday said its third-quarter revenue jumped 17% to $11.5 billion, powered by the hit animated film “KPop Demon Hunters.”

The Los Gatos-based streamer reported a net income of $2.5 billion during the third quarter, up 8% from the same period a year ago but well below the $3 billion analysts had projected, according to FactSet.

Revenue was in line with analyst estimates and was boosted by increased subscriptions, pricing adjustments and more ad revenue.

The company said it incurred a $619-million expense related to a dispute with Brazilian tax authorities.

“Absent this expense, we would have exceeded our Q3’25 operating margin forecast,” Netflix said in a letter to shareholders on Tuesday. “We don’t expect this matter to have a material impact on future results.”

Netflix shares, which closed Tuesday at $1,241.35, fell 5% in after-hours trading.

As it continues to dominate the streaming market with more than 301 million subscribers, Netflix has been investing in a diverse slate of content, including new movies rolling out in the fourth quarter such as Guillermo del Toro’s “Frankenstein,” as well as the final season of sci-fi hit “Stranger Things” and family-friendly games for the TV such as Boggle.

“KPop Demon Hunters” has garnered more than 325 million views in its first 91 days on the service. The movie, about a trio of powerful singers who hunt demons, was released in June.

It bested 2021 action film “Red Notice,” which had been previously its most watched film in its first 91 days on Netflix with 230.9 million views.

On Tuesday, Netflix also announced a licensing deal with toymakers Hasbro Inc. and Mattel Inc. to make toys including dolls, action figures, youth electronics and other items related to “KPop Demon Hunters.”

Popular TV shows launched in the third quarter include the second season of the Addams family spinoff series “Wednesday” and the second season of drama “My Life With the Walter Boys.”

“When you have a hit the size of ‘KPop Demon Hunters,’ it stirs the imagination of where you can take this,” said Ted Sarandos, co-chief executive of Netflix, in an earnings presentation.

He said the film benefited from Netflix’s platform, allowing superfans to repeat view it and make it appealing for audiences to watch in theaters as well. “We believe this film, ‘KPop Demon Hunters,’ actually worked because it was released on Netflix first,” Sarandos added.

The company said in the fourth quarter it expects revenue to grow another 17% due to growth in subscriptions, pricing and ad revenue.

For the full year, Netflix is forecasting revenue of $45.1 billion, up 16%, and said it is on track to more than double it ad revenue in 2025.

Like other entertainment companies, Netflix has been taking steps to diversify its business in a challenging landscape, as production costs for TV and movies increases and studios consolidate.

“With entertainment industry employment becoming more precarious, Netflix is slyly pivoting its content strategy to rely more on live sports, YouTubers, creators and podcasters,” said Ross Benes, a senior analyst with research firm Emarketer in a statement.

But some investors still remain skeptical about the future of subscription streaming services, as the technology behind video generation tools powered by AI get more sophisticated, making it easier to replicate visual effects and customize content to viewers.

“Netflix’s core lay-back easy-to-watch scripted content is potentially most at risk by the emergence of generative AI compared to peers,” said John Conca, analyst with investment research firm Third Bridge. “Netflix will need to channel its earlier days and find a way to remain nimble, even though it’s now the 800-pound gorilla in this space to deal with this threat.”

On Tuesday, Netflix said it is using generative AI to improve the quality of its recommendations and content discovery on its platform. Creators on Netflix are also using AI tools for their projects, including filmmakers for comedy “Happy Gilmore 2” using generative AI and volumetric capture technology to de-age characters.

Brad Ingelsby knew after the breakout success of HBO’s “Mare of Easttown” — a crime drama about a police detective (Kate Winslet) investigating the murder of a teenage girl in a fictional working-class town — he didn’t want his next series to be another whodunit.

“That’s Mare’s thing,” he says on a recent late afternoon. “So, you start to go, if you’re going to write another story in the crime genre, what would get the audience to keep clicking to the next episode? I just thought, ‘Well, maybe a collision course show, where [in] every episode, we get a little closer, a little closer, a little closer, until things collide.’ ”

In “Task,” which concluded Sunday on HBO, Mark Ruffalo stars as Tom Brandis, a priest-turned-FBI agent leading a task force investigating a series of robberies in Delaware County, Pa., an area commonly referred to as Delco that was also the setting for “Mare of Easttown.” (And with references to Wawa and Scrapple, along with visits to Rita’s Water Ice, it slips into its role of expanding the universe.) It leads Tom to Robbie Prendergast (Tom Pelphrey), a sanitation worker who robs drug houses at night to provide for his family. Both men are emotionally tortured by life events — Tom’s wife was murdered by their adopted son, who is incarcerated; Robbie’s brother was killed by a member of a motorcycle gang — that have set them each on different, but destructive paths.

In “Task,” Mark Ruffalo, left, Alison Oliver, Thuso Mbedu and Fabein Frankel portray law enforcement officers who are part of an FBI task force investigating a string of robberies.

(Peter Kramer / HBO)

“ ‘Mare’ was about the moms — the damage that all the guys have caused and the women are kind of having to pick up the pieces of that,” Ingelsby says. “This [show] is all about the fathers and being left behind, seeing the damage they’ve done to their kids, how they’re going to fix that in their lives — or not be able to fix it. The guys who are actually doing the damage without knowing.”

Ingelsby says his uncle, who was an Augustinian priest, helped inspire the throughline of the series.

“I’ve always been very intrigued by his idea of faith in God over the years, and how it’s changed over time, and what he believed once and what he believes now,” he says. “I was intrigued by the idea of a guy who, everything he held as truth, all the pillars of his life, have come crumbling down. And Robbie has a much different faith. And it’s through the gauntlet of the story, how their lives intersect, that they both get to navigate their own journeys of faith.”

Over dinner at a West Hollywood hotel, The Times sat down with Ingelsby, Ruffalo and Pelphrey to discuss their faith journeys, economic inequality, fatherhood — and Wawa, too. Here are edited excerpts from the conversation, which contains spoilers about the finale.

After the success of “Mare of Easttown,” creator Brad Ingelsby wanted his follow-up, “Task,” to feel connected, but not repetitive: “ ‘Mare’ was about the moms,” he says. “This [show] is all about the fathers and being left behind, seeing the damage they’ve done to their kids, how they’re going to fix that in their lives — or not be able to fix it.”

(Bexx Francois/For The Times)

The themes of the show involve forgiveness and faith. Every person has experienced something in life that has tested those ideas. How has your own relationship to faith and forgiveness evolved as you’ve lived more life or taken on roles that ask you to live different experiences?

Pelphrey: My faith, to me, is when I got sober. God willing, Oct. 1, which is three days from now, it’ll be 12 years. That’s truly by the grace of God — you hear that phrase, but I genuinely, I mean that. That’s how I’ve experienced faith, through my sobriety. I was raised Catholic, but the experience I had at 31 was like in a different dimension to what I thought of religion or ideas. It’s one thing to have an idea, it’s another thing to have your heart opened. It’s definitely an important part of my life. And I think Brad did such a beautiful job conveying that. My grandma used to have one of these things when I was a kid — not a real gem, but like a glass cut thing so if you put it in the window, the sun shines through a million different ways, and the color goes everywhere. I feel like you [Brad] did that with some themes in the show where you’re like, “Let me just hold it up, and we’ll just look at it a few different ways.”

Ruffalo: My journey with faith is probably very similar to Tom’s. When you get a job or something, it can take you on a journey that you’re ripe to take. It touches your life at a very moment where you need it. I’d say, after my brother died, the whole notion of faith just went out the window for me. But oddly enough, I have a lot of addiction, alcoholism in my family. I say, either you are one or you love one. When you love somebody who’s struggling with that, it takes a lot of faith to let them go and to trust it will be OK. My friend says to me, “They got a God and you ain’t it.”

My faith has been renewed, actually, through Tom [the character] — he is an alcoholic. It’s touched my life in so many ways, even with my brother, that it’s like where I lost my faith and where I gained my faith again has been through this journey with alcoholism and drug addiction. And I waver. You look at the world and you’re like, “Where is God in this? Please show yourself. ” But the thing about faith is it requires you to believe without any evidence of its existence. I’d rather believe in that than nothing. Although, I fought him [Brad] all the time. I was like, “He’s [Tom] not really praying here. He’s trying to pray. He’s going through the actions of praying, but he can’t quite get to the opening sentence, which is “ … God …” He does pray, eventually, but it’s a journey.

There’s the powerful moment in that car when Tom and Robbie finally meet in Episode 5. Robbie says, “I don’t think I’ve ever experienced God in my life.” This is a man that hasn’t felt hope, and he has this glimmer of it with this goal of escaping to Canada. Tom, how was it getting into the mindset of this guy just trying to get out of this life?

Pelphrey: It’s heartbreaking. We’re articulating an American dream that far too many people don’t get to experience, and maybe are starting to lose the hope of ever experiencing it. That’s a very real thing — unfortunately, way too real and increasingly way too common. It was just constantly reminding myself: What does this character want? And at the end of the day, regardless of how extreme some of the things Robbie’s doing, he just wants a decent life for his kids. And the fact that he’s having a hard time getting it is heartbreaking.

That scene and in the car, the first time I read it, I was like, “Oh, he’s [Brad] got some balls.” You have so much s— boiling over — the plot lines, the violence, the stakes are through the roof for everyone now in the show, and we are going to sit in a car for half an episode? And two dudes are gonna talk?

In Episode 5, Robbie Prendergast (Tom Pelphrey), left, and Tom Brandis (Mark Ruffalo) finally meet.

(HBO)

Ruffalo: There’s no chase! And when they finally face each other, they’re not even [actually] facing each other! They’re both pushed to the edge and you don’t know where it could go. Tom certainly doesn’t know where it will go. Tom’s kind of at that point, like, “F— it. Go ahead.” We talked about it a lot, I was like, “I think Tom should die.”

[They break into laughter]

Ingelsby: Every single day he was pitching it.

Ruffalo: I was pitching Tom should have a heart attack at the end and he literally sees God and he says to God, “I’m ready.” He finally finds his faith. It’s finally paid off and he says [gasping], “I’m … reaaady.”

Ingelsby: Enough people die here. But that particular episode has always been very special to me. That’s when the show is operating at the peak of its powers. It just felt like, how do we subvert the expectations of the audience and do that in a way that still feels true to who these characters are? I remember talking to you [Tom] about this. You were like, “As soon as I know Cliff’s done, I’m on a one-way street. I have a plan.” But with you [Mark], once they get out of the car and you feel like you’re going to die, you’re like, “I want to call my family.” That’s when you get activated in a way. You’ve been going through the motions in life, but that’s when it gets very real.

Ruffalo: It’s like being reborn. It opens his heart. He sees how life can be taken away.

We’re in a political and cultural moment where the mood of the country is simmering — there’s anger and rage on all sides, and a lot of it stems from class and systemic issues that are in place that put people in certain positions. There’s that layer, but there’s also the grief element both these men are facing.

Ingelsby: With Robbie in particular, I was interested in a guy that felt really stuck. What I liked about Robbie was, if he didn’t take action, what would happen to Robbie? He’d be a trash man in too deep his whole life. Who cares about Robbie and his family? Nobody. He was left behind. In early versions of the script, I very explicitly said, “He wants his bite of the apple.” There are lots of people like that now. I loved writing Robbie because it felt like he was raging against being left behind and and I felt, in many cases, in the script, why wouldn’t you do something? Whether you agree with the actions or not —

Pelphrey: He had his f— life stolen from him. What he’s going after is a very specific thing. He’s not lashing out blindly against anybody to get any money at any cost. He’s like: “I’m gonna take it from these mother f—, who are bad dudes.” Even within that, he has principles. No one’s gonna die — obviously, the rules all go out the window Episode 2, but we’re not going to take the drugs, we’re not going to sell the drug. We’re going to destroy the drugs. We’re going to take the cash. Even within his brand of lashing out, he actually has a set of principles that he’s operating by.

Mark Ruffalo, left, and Tom Pelphrey star as two troubled men on a collision course in “Task.” Ruffalo portrays an FBI agent recovering from a family tragedy, while Pelphrey plays a garbage collector and criminal involved in a series of robberies. (Bexx Francois/For The Times)

Mark and Tom, as sons and fathers, how did you think about the father-child relationships of these two men and the collateral damage of their choices?

Ruffalo: It’s so hard to be a father, especially now because this generation is like, “We’re not going to do it the way our parents, our fathers did. We see that there’s another way to do it. We’re actually talking about it.” At the same time, we don’t exactly know what it is that we should do differently, plus we have the responsibility of, financially, keeping it together. It’s obviously hard to be a mom too. These guys are doing the best they can.

Pelphrey: Becoming a dad two and a half years ago now, it’s just the most f— awesome, wild, intense, crazy s— I’ve ever experienced in my life. It’s like getting struck by lightning. I’m so in love and I feel so vulnerable and I feel so happy — it’s all the feelings. Then suddenly, when you’re thinking about how you feel, you go, “How do I balance this? How do I protect her, but make sure that she’s brave and experiencing things? And you quickly realize there is so much to this that I will have no power over and the realization of that, in the deepest sense — and I’ve already had moments of that and we’re just getting started here. You imagine what it’s like, when you don’t have kids, but you have no f— clue. One of the things I could say without blinking, ever, is, “I totally understand why he’s doing what he’s doing.”

Was there a version where Robbie lived?

Ingelsby: No, I felt like structurally what needed to happen was Tom had to witness Robbie’s kindness, then his sacrifice. It felt very necessary to be like, “Oh, wait. Robbie — he went up to the woods…” Because he’s always like, “What’s the plan?” Tom realizes, “Oh, I know what the plan was. He went there to die.” Part of Tom’s journey to getting rid of the anger and to believing in something at the end, was to have witnessed the goodness in Robbie. He [Robbie] also gets in so deep eventually, he has pushed himself into such a corner and there’s no good way out of this. What’s an audience gonna think if he gets out of this unscathed? Even if he were to survive, he’s gonna be in jail for the rest of his life. The idea of sacrifice would speak to Tom as a character and get him to his ultimate decision to give the boy [Sam] up, but also forgive his own son and, quite literally, get the house ready for him.

Mark, how did you feel about the statement that Tom winds up giving at the hearing in the finale?

Ruffalo: He had to sit down and write that. I don’t think he really knew what he was going to be writing. He’s taking stock of his life and his son’s life and the story of the life. It’s connecting him to the whole story. It’s not just the loss of my wife, but also we raised that boy. We made this life together and, even in the hard part of it all, that’s where we learned what love is. Then when he gets in there, he doesn’t even know that he’s gonna say it. He doesn’t know he’s going to confront him with it and say [to his son], “Look at me.” But the whole journey, leads us there.

There’s something, too, about his composure in that moment.

Ingelsby: That’s the genius of Mark. That was the first or second take, what we used.

How many versions of it did you write? Was there an overly emotional or dramatic version?

Ingelsby: There was a longer version. But I think what was important about it was — and Mark does such a beautiful job — was that he had to be honest about how hard it was. I was always worried it would be a bit maudlin, if he just went in and said straight away, “I love you.” It was almost like he had to be really honest with everybody, like, “Hey, this was f— horrible.” And the shame of changing your name —

Ruffalo: Yes. To be that honest and to say that I pretended like I wasn’t his father. It’s so shameful. It’s so honest.

Ingelsby: I think because he’s so honest, it makes the forgiveness even more impactful. When he says, “I forgive you,” you believe because he’s earned the trust in the speech by admitting the things that were so shameful .

Ruffalo: It doesn’t just go one way — forgiveness. There’s a lot of shame on it on the other side, that’s where the anger comes from. There’s always this question: What could I have done? The backstory was I left, knowing that he was in an episode, but I had to go. I left her with him, thinking it would blow over. And it didn’t. He has to also be honest about his part in it. What dad says, “That’s not my kid. You’re in retreat already.”

Ingelsby: That’s what we want the ending to be. It’s not that everything’s going to be easy. I think the same for Mare — it wasn’t like Mare’s life was so great at the end of the show. There was a lot of going on.

Ruffalo: She’s going to an AA meeting. Tom and Mare can meet at an AA meeting.

Tom Pelphrey as Robbie Prendergrast, a garbage collector trying to avenge his brother’s death by hitting trap houses belonging to a local gang before getting caught in a deadly standoff. (HBO)

Mark Ruffalo, Silvia Dionicio and Phoebe Fox in “Task.” Ruffalo plays a priest-turned-FBI agent who hasn’t confronted his feelings about the murder of his wife at the hands of their adopted son. (HBO)

To that point, was there thought about whether to incorporate “Mare” characters in this show, if they’re in the same universe?

Ingelsby: It’s funny you say that. [In] one of the early scripts, we had a scene where Emily (Silvia Dionicio), at the end of the show, went to a concert with her boyfriend, Leo, the guy that’s a magician. And Mare’s daughter, Siobhan (Angourie Rice), was playing. And there was another connective piece I’m missing. I think Leo’s brother was in the band. And they had a moment together, because I felt like Emily and Siobhan were very, very similar. That they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in some way, Emily especially —

Ruffalo: They’re well suited for each other. They could just sink to the bottom of the lake together.

He’s got a crossover season mapped out for you.

Pelphrey: If we hold hands, we can sink faster.

Ingelsby: But we did have something connecting them. But I’m glad HBO read it and were like, “Is it a bit much?” It felt like maybe we were reaching to do something that the story didn’t require. And when we took it out, I felt like this story exists on its own, and we didn’t need that. If we had threaded it through the story in a more interesting way, maybe it would have worked, but it would have felt really tacked on and kind of just fan service for the sake of fan service, which I didn’t want.

Can we talk about the Phillies cup? It’s seems like such an obscure detail, but that cup triggered me. I know it well. A father trying to hide his vice.

Ingelsby: That’s another detail of my own life that I can repurpose, steal. That’s my dad. He drinks out of that. He watches every Phillies game. There’s 162 games. And if he can’t watch, he’s listening to it in a radio in the car. I feel like we always talk about in the specific, is the universal. And Mark did the swirly thing.

Ruffalo: That’s what made me want to do the show. That he was drinking out of that. And then he swirled his hand. I said, “This guy is writing character like nobody is doing that I’ve seen in television.” I only read the first episode and I was like, “I want to go. I trust this journey with him.” And it was from that nuance thing. I know that guy. He’s a priest who swirls his vodka and tonic with his finger. In a Phillies cup. And he thinks he’s pulling it over. That’s my family. It’s so honest.

The accent was such a feature of “Mare of Easttown.” I imagine that had its own expectations or pressure for this show.

Ingelsby: “Mare” was more a community — very, very specific community. I felt like, in that show, we had to go all in and Kate did. A lot of Mark’s character was driven by my uncle, who has no accent at all. Because he went to the seminary, then he went to Merrimack College, he was a teacher — he bounced around. And even me, there’s a couple words I’ll say that you can’t pick up a heavy accent. There’s a couple words, where maybe you could pick it up.

Ruffalo: We tried. I tried it. I kept kicking it out, it just didn’t feel right. He does hit some of those words. He does say wooder — cheery wooder ice. We kept some of it in, but we didn’t go as hard at it because he goes another way. I feel like he might have ended up in South America at some point. I was thinking he traveled the world.

Did you pay many visits to Wawa? I remember Kate telling me about her Wawa experiences.

Pelphrey: I grew up going to Wawa. I was Wawa all the time because I was living out in the suburbs.

Ingelsby: I think Kate ate hoagies or something.

Pelphrey: They make a good sandwich.

Ruffalo: Oh, bro. I started with a fat suit and then I had to take it off. I just kept getting fatter. My wife saw me and she’s like [to the kids], “huh, your father’s eating his way through Philly.” But, man, I’d be like, “How about a sandwich for the scene?” [Mimics scarfing down a sandwich.] Like a troll.

Ingelsby: He is an amazing sandwich eater. We were talking about it.

Pelphrey: We were.

Ruffalo: Oh, I knew I was going to be eating a sandwich that day [in a scene], so I starved myself so I could just plow that thing.

Are you interested in a Season 2, Brad?

Ruffalo: No one wants a Season 2. [the trio laughs] No, I’m kidding. That would be amazing.

Ingelsby: It would be amazing. If people respond and we get a chance to do it.

Could we get that “Task”-”Mare” crossover?

Ingelsby: A lot could happen.

Ruffalo: Some “Mare” people could show up. There could be a love affair.

Inside a historic aircraft hangar in Playa Vista, crowds of people gathered on Thursday to browse the latest fashions from handbags to clothing and shoes as they prepared for the holiday shopping season.

These weren’t shoppers or retailer buyers browsing for the latest products. Instead, they were YouTube video creators who were being courted by brands from Lowe’s to Shark Beauty to encourage online audiences to buy their products.

Aaron Ramirez, a 22-year-old influencer who focuses on men’s fashion and lifestyle, stood in front of racks of carefully curated shelves of backpacks as he decided which items he would endorse for his 234,000 YouTube subscribers.

“I can make a video about anything that improves my quality of life and add a link to it,” said Ramirez. “I only recommend products that I really use and really like.”

The San Diego resident was among about 300 creators participating in YouTube’s annual benefit for creators dubbed “Holiday House” that helps internet personalities get ready to sell goods during the busy holiday shopping season.

The event — held at the cavernous converted Google offices that once housed Howard Hughes’ famous Spruce Goose plane — underscores YouTube’s desire to be a bigger player in online shopping by leveraging its relationship with creators to promote products in much the same way that rival TikTok does.

In August, YouTube introduced new tools to help its creators better promote products they plug in their videos. One feature uses AI to identify the optimal place on the screen to put a shopping link when an influencer mentions a product. If a customer clicks on that link and makes a purchase, the creator gets a commission.

Brands that were once skeptical about influencers have embraced them over time as sales-tracking tools have improved and the fan base of video creators has mushroomed.

“It’s like the people that you saw on television and before that the people that you listened to on radio who became the trusted personalities in your life,” Earnest Pettie, a trends insight lead at YouTube, said in an interview. “Oprah’s Favorite Things was a phenomenon because of how trusted Oprah was, so it really is that same phenomenon, just diffused across the creator ecosystem.”

Despite economic uncertainty and tariffs imposed by the Trump administration, shoppers in the U.S. are expected to spend $253.4 billion online this holiday season, up 5.3% from a year ago, according to data firm Adobe Analytics.

Social media platforms have helped drive some of that growth. The market share of online revenue in purchases guided by social media affiliates and partners, including influencers, is expected to grow 14%, according to Adobe Analytics.

Cost-conscious consumers are doing more research on how they spend their money, including watching influencer recommendations. In fact, nearly 60% of 14- to 24-year-olds who go online say their personal style have been influenced by content they’ve seen on the internet, according to YouTube.

“It’s more about discovery, understanding where the best deals are, where the best options are,” said Vivek Pandya, director at Adobe Digital Insights. “Many of these users are getting that guidance from their influencers.”

YouTube is one of the top streaming platforms, harnessing 13.1% of viewing time in August on U.S. TV sets, more than rivals Netflix and Amazon Prime Video, according to Nielsen. And shopping-related videos are especially popular among its viewers, with more than 35 billion hours watched each year, according to YouTube.

With YouTube’s shopping feature, viewers can see products, add them to a cart and make purchases directly from the video they’re watching.

Promoting and enabling one-click e-commerce from video has been huge in China, triggering a wave across Asia and the world of livestreaming and recorded shopping videos. Live commerce, also known as live shopping or livestreaming e-commerce, is a potent mix of streaming, chatting and shopping.

The temptation to shop is turbocharged with algorithms like that of TikTok Shop, enticing people to try more channels and products.

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1. YouTube content creators Diana Extein, left, and Candice Waltrip, right, film clothing try-ons during YouTube’s Holiday House shopping event at Google Spruce Goose on Thursday, Oct. 16, 2025 in Playa Vista, CA. 2. YouTube content creator Peja Anne, 15, makes a video with beauty products as her mom Kristin Roeder films during YouTube’s Holiday House shopping event at Google Spruce Goose on Thursday, Oct. 16, 2025 in Playa Vista, CA.

A YouTube content creator who declined to give her name browses YouTube’s Holiday House shopping event at Google Spruce Goose on Thursday in Playa Vista, Calif.

YouTube content creator Cheraye Lewis’ channel focuses on lifestyle and fragrance, and a brand deal with Fenty Beauty helped launch her content to larger audiences.

More than 500,000 video creators as of July have signed up to be a part of YouTube Shopping, the company said.

Creators who promote products can make money through ads and brand deals, as well as commissions.

YouTube already shares advertising and subscription revenue with its creators and currently does not take a cut from its shopping tools, said Travis Katz, YouTube Shopping vice president.

“For us, it’s really about connecting the dots,” Katz said. “At YouTube we are first and foremost very focused on, how do we make sure that our creators are successful? This gives a new way for creators to monetize.”

Companies like Austin-based BK Beauty, which was founded by YouTube creator Lisa J, said YouTubers have helped drive sales for their products.

“They’ve built these long-term audiences,” said Sophia Monetti, BK Beauty’s senior manager of social commerce and influencer marketing. “A lot of these creators have established channels. They’ve been around for a decade and have just a really engaged community.”

To be sure, YouTube faces a formidable rival in TikTok, which is a leader in the live shopping space (its parent company, Byte Dance, is being sold to an American investor group so that the hugely popular app can keep operating in the U.S.).

Two years ago, the social video company launched TikTok Shop, working with creators and brands on live shopping shows that encourage viewers to buy products. TikTok had 8 million hours of live shopping sessions in 2024.

YouTube says its size and technology create advantages, along with the loyalty its creators build with fans when it comes to product recommendations.

Bridget Dolan, a director of YouTube Shopping Partnerships, said “shopping has been in YouTube’s DNA from Day One” and that the company has been integrating shopping features into its viewing experience.

YouTube content creators peruse products and film content during YouTube’s Holiday House shopping event at Google Spruce Goose on Thursday in Playa Vista, Calif.

Santa Clarita-based YouTube creator Cheraye Lewis said that YouTube Shopping helped her gain traction and earn a trusting audience through quality recommendations. Lewis, who has 109,000 subscribers on YouTube, makes videos about items such as fragrances and skincare products.

Lewis has been a video creator for eight years and has worked with such companies as Rihanna’s beauty brand Fenty.

“I try to inspire women and men to feel bold and confident through the fragrances that they’re wearing,” Lewis said at the event Thursday. “I give my audience real talk, real authenticity.”

“KPop Demon Hunters” creator Maggie Kang thinks there’s potential for more Huntr/x stories in the future, but only in animation.

In a recent interview with the BBC, the co-director of the Netflix phenomenon said there is nothing officially in the works, but she thinks “there’s definitely more we can do with these characters in this world.” Kang and her co-director Chris Appelhans also assured fans that if another “KPop Demon Hunters” were to happen, “it will be a story that deserves to be a sequel, and it will be something that we want to see.”

Produced by Sony Pictures Animation, the movie follows a popular K-pop girl group whose members use their music and dance moves (and magical powers) to fight demons and protect the world. But Huntr/x’s leader Rumi is keeping a secret from her bandmates Mira and Zoey that could lead to their downfall.

Since its June debut, “KPop Demon Hunters” and its catchy soundtrack have smashed numerous records on Netflix as well as the Billboard charts. The movie’s massive popularity led to a limited theatrical run for sing-along screenings as well as live performances of its songs.

With Hollywood’s current trend of sequels and remakes, it’s easy to believe that “KPop Demon Hunters” could spawn its own franchise. But Kang and Appelhans both insist that a live-action adaptation should be off the table.

“It’s really hard to imagine these characters in a live action world,” Kang told the BBC, pointing to the tone and comedic elements in “KPop.” “It would feel too grounded. So totally it wouldn’t work for me.”

Appelhans agreed that the characters in “KPop Demon Hunters” are best suited for animation and worried a live-action version of them could feel too “stilted.”

“One of the great things about animation is that you make these composites of impossibly great attributes,” Appelhans told the BBC. “Rumi can be this goofy comedian and then singing and doing a spinning back-kick a second later and then free-falling through the sky. The joy of animation is how far you can push and elevate what’s possible.”

For now, it seems that Huntr/x will keep shining only in the medium they were born to be — in animation.

Spotify video podcasts are coming to Netflix, further diversifying the types of content on the Los Gatos, Calif.-based streaming service beyond movies, TV shows and games.

The move reflects how many people are consuming their podcasts not just by listening, but by watching the podcasters conduct their discussions on video.

Roughly 70% of podcast listeners prefer their shows with video, according to a Cumulus Media study. Netflix and Spotify said the partnership will bring podcasts to Netflix that complement the streamer’s “existing programming and unlocks new audiences and wider distribution for the shows.”

There will be 16 Spotify video podcasts initially on Netflix in the U.S. in early 2026, with plans to include other markets, the companies said. Those video podcasts include sports programs like “The Bill Simmons Podcast” and “The Ringer Fantasy Football Show,” culture/lifestyle podcasts like “The Dave Chang Show” and “The Recipe Club” as well as true-crime programs like “Serial Killers.”

“At Netflix, we’re always looking for new ways to entertain our members, wherever and however they want to watch,” said Lauren Smith, the streamer’s vice president of content licensing and programming strategy.

Roman Wasenmüller, vice president and head of podcasts at Spotify, said this partnership helps creators reach new audiences and unlocks “a completely new distribution opportunity.”

Spotify began offering video podcasts on its platform about five years ago, offering an option to its podcasters who had previously been posting videos of their audio programs on YouTube.

Last year, the Swedish audio company unveiled new features that make it easier for creators to earn money from their video content and track their performance on the streaming service.

Netflix has also been diversifying the types of content it offers on its streaming service. Last week, Netflix unveiled a slate of games, such as versions of Boggle and Pictionary, that can be played on TV and are included with its streaming subscription.

I am standing on what looks like a cramped, dark city street. A tavern is around a corner, a police department in front of me. And I’m lost.

That’s when I hear a whisper. “Psst.” I turn, and see a puppet peeping his head out of a secret opening of a door. Over here,” he says, and I find myself leaning in to listen to this furry, oval-faced creature in the shadows. He’ll help me, he says — that is if I can clear his name. See, another puppet has been murdered, and everyone right now is a suspect.

Campaign posters for puppet candidates for mayor inside Appleseed Avenue. “Election Day” is a tale of political espionage with puppet-on-puppet violence.

(Juliana Yamada / Los Angeles Times)

I am playing a gamed called “Election Day” at Appleseed Avenue, a relatively new escape room in a multi-story strip mall in Newhall. The puppet world is in the midst of a crisis, torn over whether humans should be allowed to wander the fictional street of Appleseed Avenue. My role is that of a detective, and throughout this game of fatal political espionage, I encounter multiple puppet characters — electricians, would-be-mayors, gangsters, dead puppets.

Drama ensues, and that’s where we humans come in, helping the puppets crack the case before we’re banned from their world once and for all. One needn’t be up on the state of puppet politics to participate — and don’t worry, the domestic affairs of Appleseed Avenue are relatively divorced from those of our own. Only a penchant for silly absurdity, and a stomach for puppet-on-puppet violence, is required.

While the look of the puppets may be inspired by, say, “Sesame Street,” with characters that are all big mouths and large eyes, the tone of “Election Day” leans a bit more adult. Recommended for ages 13 and older, “Election Day” will feature puppets in perilous conditions. And if you’re playing as a medical examiner, be prepared to get a glimpse at a mini puppet morgue.

Guests will play as detectives or medical examiners in Appleseed Avenue’s “Election Day.”

(Juliana Yamada / Los Angeles Times)

“Sometimes people do think, ‘Oh, this is for little kids.’ Not quite,” says Patrick Fye, who created the experience with Matt Tye. “We call it PG-13.”

“We wanted that dichotomy,” says Tye. “Really silly puppet-y characters in a gritty world.”

Fye and Tye are veterans of the local escape room scene — Fye the creator of Evil Genius Escape Rooms and Tye the developer of Arcane Escape Rooms. “Election Day,” however, while a timed experience, isn’t a pure escape room. Think of it more as a story that unfolds and needs solving. We’re not trapped. In fact, one puzzle actually utilizes the waiting room, as “Election Day” toys with the idea of traversing the human world and a puppet universe.

Patrick Fye and Matthew Tye, founders of Appleseed Avenue, along with their lookalike puppets.

(Juliana Yamada / Los Angeles Times)

Puppets weren’t necessarily the driving idea behind their joint venture in Appleseed Avenue. Creating a so-called escape room that was more narrative based was the objective. They wanted a room, for instance, where puzzles felt natural rather than forced. “Election Day” isn’t a space, say, with complex cipher codes to untangle. I was reminded of old-fashioned adventure video games, where one is prompted to look at objects, combine them or go on scavenger hunts, like the one prompted by the puppet I met in an alley.

Puppets were simply a means to an end.

“How can we make something that feels like you’re actually in the story and has more video game-y elements, as opposed to, ‘I’m in an Egyptian tomb. Here’s a padlock,’ ” says Fye. “We were trying to figure out how to mix the diegetics with the overall design. We stumbled on crimes and puppets because we thought it was fun and funny.”

One problem: Neither had created puppets or puppeteered before. Enter online classes, where Tye learned how to craft arm-rod puppets.

“We thought it was the coolest idea we had,” Tye says. When we both look at something and go, ‘We don’t know how to do all of this yet,’ we don’t let that stop us.”

Appleseed Avenue is home to an escape room featuring puppets. It doubles as the street name in which the game, “Election Day,” takes place.

(Juliana Yamada / Los Angeles Times)

“Election Day” does unfold like a live-in video game. At times, we’re interacting with a screen, as puppets will relay us messages and quests. Often, we’ll explore the space, as the two have created an elaborate set. Teams are split. Half work as detectives, and half as medical examiners. We can communicate via an inter-room conference system, or simply run back and forth.

But listening to everything the puppets say is paramount, as clues are often hidden in dialogue. Both say they have done too many escape rooms where the story felt too divorced from the actions they were being asked to complete.

“We even say at the beginning of the game, ‘The story really matters.’ You have to pay attention to it,” Fye says. “There’s a moment I’ll never forget. We were doing a Titanic room, and we were in the engine room shoveling coal. But isn’t the ship sinking? What is happening? A lot of times a story is just set dressing.”

The initial response to “Election Day” has been positive, so much so that the two are set to debut a second game in 2026, a sci-fi room titled “Shadow Puppet.” The latter will utilize the same Appleseed Avenue set, although additional spaces will be built out. They’re also looking at some more kid-friendly options. Planned for 2027 is a game titled “Puppet Town Day,” in which little ones will receive passports that prompt them to interact with the puppet characters.

Wanted posters for puppets. Many are a suspect in Appleseed Avenue’s “Election Day.”

(Juliana Yamada / Los Angeles Times)

For now, however, think of Appleseed Avenue as part of greater Los Angeles escape room trend. Whether it’s Hatch Escapes with its corporate time-jumping game “The Ladder” or Ministry of Peculiarities with its spooky haunted house, creators here are emphasizing story. Appleseed Avenue is no different, introducing us to a wacky cast of puppet characters.

It also achieves a rare feat: It makes murder feel ridiculous.

Says Tye: “When there’s a guy named Alby Dunfer who’s getting it from a blowdart from a hitman, it’s like, ‘OK, this is fun.’ ”

When the cast and crew of “Bob’s Burgers” gathered to celebrate the show’s milestone 300th episode earlier this month, two key figures were missing.

Creator Loren Bouchard and actor H. Jon Benjamin — who voices the “Bob” of the title — were unexpectedly waylaid by illness and travel troubles, respectively. It was a scenario that could have been an episode of the long-running adult animated series, down to the celebration’s setting, which took place in a room resembling the inside of the show’s titular hamburger joint.

The only thing missing was a musical interlude.

Centering a family that runs a restaurant, “Bob’s Burgers” kicks off its 16th season Sunday on Fox with its 300th episode titled “Grand Pre-Pre-Pre-Opening.” The milestone episode will take things back to before the Belcher’s opened their family eatery.

According to Bouchard, one of the questions the writers wanted to explore in this episode was “Why is Linda doing this?”

“Bob’s Burgers [the restaurant], it’s got his name in it, but we sense that he can’t do it without her,” Bouchard says. “[Bob] says that in the show, but what do we mean when we say that?”

The look to the past also shows Bob (Benjamin) and Linda (John Roberts) preparing to welcome their first child, Tina (Dan Mintz). The Belcher clan also includes Tina’s younger siblings Gene (Eugene Mirman) and Louise (Kristen Schaal).

“Grand Pre-Pre-Pre-Opening” is the 300th episode of “Bob’s Burgers.”

(20th Television / Fox)

Bouchard admits he is usually not one for celebrating episode counts — “It starts to feel a little bit like bulk pricing,” he jokes — but he recognizes that the longevity of the series is something special. “Bob’s Burgers” premiered in 2011.

“What you get with a show that lasts this long and has this many episodes is a different relationship with the fans,” Bouchard says. “You get to have a 15-year relationship. That’s like family. There are marriages that don’t last that long.”

Over the years, the show’s dedicated audience has seen “Bob’s Burgers” expand beyond television with the release of “The Bob’s Burgers Movie” in 2022 as well as a touring live show of comedy and music.

Bouchard explains that the show’s approach to these milestone episodes have been to “go small and deep” to avoid overstuffing them with fan service. They’ve treated the 100th, 200th and 300th episodes like a new pilot that centers the restaurant and family “in a very basic way” as if it were someone’s introduction to the series.

The 300th episode, written by Bouchard and Nora Smith, digs into the show’s core premise to reveal how Bob and Linda came to juggle a restaurant and a family at the same time.

“I started my family when I started ‘Bob’s,’ so it’s very personal to me,” Bouchard says. “I like the chaos and just audacious optimism that you could have children and start a doomed-to-fail, Hail Mary of a creative project at the same time. It’s why I like this family, that they did this too.”

To commemorate the milestone, Bouchard and the cast discussed, in their own words edited for clarity and length, “Bob’s Burgers’” status as a “comfort show,” the Belcher family dynamics, memorable episodes and more.

A comfort food

“Bob’s Burgers” cast members Larry Murphy, left, Dan Mintz, Kristen Schaal, Eugene Mirman and John Roberts at the Bento Box offices.

(Frank Micelotta / Fox)

It’s not rare for “Bob’s Burgers” to be described as a “comfort show” — something fans can turn on to unwind or fall asleep to. The cast attributes this to the show having real emotions that come from the heart.

“The sweetness of [their affection] being genuine, that’s the thing,” Mirman says. “It’s just a mix of warmhearted and funny and sort of grounded.”

“The jokes aren’t taking people down a notch,” Schaal says. “The show has always been in a lane that people are realizing they should come over to — the kind lane.”

Bouchard says that “it’s very touching and affecting” that audiences turn to the show for comfort but acknowledges it’s something he can’t focus on while the show’s in production.

Bouchard: I definitely don’t take it lightly. I don’t want to think about it while we’re making “Bob’s.” If I thought about it while we’re making it, I would I feel like there’s a scenario where I could mess it up. You don’t want to shoot for comfort show, you want to shoot for edgy, attention-grabbing. [Episodes with] act breaks and big closing numbers. I know people don’t mean, “I fall asleep when I see it for the first time.” They mean, “I put on episodes I’ve seen before and it’s comforting in a profoundly, sleepy way.” I think being an adult by definition means at the end of the day you need something to just transition so that you can fall asleep. I’m glad that “Bob’s” does that for people.

Roberts: We love how much comfort this brings to the world. We like being light and having a job in entertainment that makes people feel good — it makes the world a better place. That’s rare and we’re blessed and we’re grateful.

Dinner (musical) theater

Tina, left, Louise and Gene in an episode of “Bob’s Burgers.”

(20th Television / Fox)

According to Bouchard, the music on the show was ”a ’dare we dream’ type thing in the beginning.” But the reception to the show’s catchy ukelele-driven theme song made him feel like there was room to push the musical elements further, like having a unique end credits and outro song for each episode.

“This sort of flea market find, slightly childlike music felt to us like of the show, but the audience had to give us permission,” Bouchard says. “We had to go slowly to get that.”

Once they saw the audience was on board, he felt like the show had the go ahead to hit the ground running from putting musical moments within the stories to eventually having musical episodes. While it’s still something they take “moment by moment,” Bouchard says he’s “so glad that [the music is] part of what people seem to want from the show.”

Roberts: I think in the earlier seasons, we were more improvising and things like that. But now it’s very professional big songs. It’s fun. I’m impressed by everybody.

Mirman: I’m truly incapable of singing. So the way we do it for me is that the person who’s in charge of the music will sing one line and I will mimic it like nine times to the best of my ability. [Then] they splice together a child singing poorly that is still much better than me in real life. But it’s still very fun. It’s very fun to be challenged.

Mintz: I’m kind of in Eugene’s boat. I can’t remember pitch for very long after I hear it, so I do have to immediately hear it and immediately repeat it. But I’ve been surprised at how much I do enjoy it. You do it again and again, and then the final ones are like, “Now do it and don’t hold back.” And you feel a real singer for, like, one line. There’s also the no pressure of it because I’m singing as a person, as a character, who’s not a professional singer, so it doesn’t have to be that good.

Where’s the beef? Belcher family dynamics

The Belchers inside their restaurant.

(20th Television / Fox)

One thing that comes through in every episode of “Bob’s Burgers” is just how much the Belchers love each other.

“[Linda] is a mom that pays attention and is present and shows up for her children,” says Roberts, who draws from his own mother for his performance. “There’s a realness there and it’s very grounding for the show. … Linda’s gone a little crazy sometimes, but for the most part, it’s all very much stuff that you can relate to.”

Perpetually in the Belchers’ orbit is Teddy — handyman, loyal customer and Bob’s best friend.

“I think of Teddy as constantly trying to inject himself into the lives of the family that he doesn’t have,” says Larry Murphy, who voices Teddy. “The best part about that is that they might shake their heads [at him], but they always rise to the occasion and are supportive of the character.”

And as much as the Belcher children can tease or annoy each other at times, there is no doubt that they all genuinely care for one another too.

“There’s a sibling camaraderie that is really lovely,” Mirman says. “It reminds me of the camaraderie on TV and movies in the ‘80s. That era of the stuff I grew up watching.”

Schaal: I love how they enjoy each other’s company. They’re usually not trying to lose the other one. I mean, in some episodes, Louise is bothering Tina and we explore that. But in general, they hang out together, they play together. They’re not on their f— iPads, separate in their own worlds. They’re going on adventures. And at the end of the day, Louise has their back like no one else and she’ll fight for them.

Mintz: I think it’s great for Tina to be pulled out of her comfort zone by her siblings, even though she’s supposed to be the leader as the oldest. Those are some of the most fun episodes for me when Gene and Louise want to do something dangerous or against the rules or whatever. Tina’s anxious for some reason and keeps being like, “Well, we shouldn’t,” but she gets dragged along. There’s always some moment in every one of those where it’s like, ‘Wait, Jimmy Jr. will be there. OK, maybe I’m fine with this.’ I think Tina’s life would be a lot more boring if she didn’t have someone make her break the rules all the time.

Favorite flavors

Tina and Linda in “Bob’s Burgers.”

(20th Television/Fox)

Over the years, “Bob’s Burgers” has come to be known for its various holiday episodes for Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas that often rank among viewers’ favorites.

“I love on Thanksgiving when they play the marathon of stuff,” Roberts says.

But holidays aren’t the only flavor of memorable episodes. And even after 16 seasons, the cast says they are just as excited to flip through new scripts and record episodes together as they were when they started.

As for their favorites, Mintz says he enjoys “all the fantasy ones.” Murphy agrees.

Murphy: I like those episodes where the kids are each telling their own story — and it might not have happened. It just gets to not exist in the world of “Bob’s Burgers,” but it’s someone’s point of view telling a story, like when they built that giant robot [“The Handyman Can”]. Kind of a “Rashomon”-type idea.

Schaal: I like anything that’s emotional. If Louise ever gets to be emotional, I get excited. Even like the one where they’re looking for Bob’s mom’s grave [“Show Mama From the Grave”]. They’re going for something that is really sad, but doing it so well. I love those episodes.

Roberts: I think what’s really awesome is that there’s an individual episode for each character that’s genius. For me, I think “Lindapendent Woman” was an incredible episode. I just did an episode Holly Schlesinger wrote where it’s more about Linda and her past. We all got our turn at having incredible episodes.

Mirman: I agree with Kristen about the ones that have an emotional arc. There is a Christmas one [“The Plight Before Christmas”], where all three kids have an event and the parents understand they can’t make it to everything. Eventually Tina makes it to Louise’s poetry reading where she wrote two poems and one is really sweet and about the family. I’ve watched that episode a bunch.

Schaal: Going back to the story ones. The one about the chores [“Fight at the Not Okay Chore-ral”], where Louise is butting heads with Linda about doing chores and then they tell stories about being in a wild west town. That one I love because it was about this real conflict. And the funny thing is, my daughter has requested to watch that one several times. I think it’s because Linda breaks down and says, “I’m wrong, I give up,” and my kid is thrilled to see the mom say that.

We’re here, we’re gruyere, get used it

Teddy and Linda in an episode of “Bob’s Burgers.”

(20th Television / Fox)

“Bob’s Burgers” has often been hailed for its inclusivity. As a series living in “the kind lane,” the characters are accepted for who they are — even if there’s gentle ribbing at times.

“Nobody’s trying to change anyone,” Roberts says. “They’re just trying to make them better human beings.”

“And they don’t have to defend who they are,” adds Schaal. “There’s complete acceptance.”

At a time when trans and queer people are increasingly targeted by ring-wing politicians and activists through legislation and dehumanizing rhetoric — LGBTQ+-friendly shows such as “Bob’s Burgers” can, for some, feel like a refuge. Bouchard explains how the show’s approach to being inclusive is intentional.

Bouchard: One of the simple tricks that we do is you just do it. You don’t have to shine a light on it. What I think is interesting about acceptance and tolerance and inclusivity — all those things have become capitalized words, and they almost lose their value when they’re not just part of your daily life. Your storytelling has to be about something other than that. That’s not going to be as satisfying as just put it in the character and let it be their daily. They get up feeling accepting and inclusive and normalizing, and they go to bed that way. They don’t learn that f— lesson in the middle of a half-hour show. That’s fine that it exists. Maybe sometimes, as a culture, we need to all come together and learn a lesson. [But] “Bob’s” is in the business of not writing those episodes. We’re in the business of writing those characters without fanfare.

And I give credit to my parents. I think my sister and I were weird in the normal weird way — weird kids are normal. A lot of parents make room for that, and love their kids no matter how they express themselves as little kids. I guess some don’t, but I am glad to have come up in that. To me, it feels natural. To me, it’s not a stretch. The way to do it is to just live it, just be it, and assume that when it’s on paper and it seems normal to you, hopefully it’ll feel reassuring and comforting to other folks too.

“The Pitt” may not be set in Los Angeles, but its cast and creatives are proud that it’s filmed there.

HBO Max’s hour-by-hour look at an emergency room shift in a Pittsburgh hospital took home the Emmy Award for best drama series on Sunday, and its cast and creatives dedicated their recognition to healthcare workers. Once they got backstage, they advocated for something else: increasing production in Los Angeles.

Speaking to press after the series’ big win, creator R. Scott Gemmill and star and executive producer Noah Wyle said they believe filming locally is important for the entertainment industry in Los Angeles as production rates have declined over the past several years because of a confluence of issues, including the pandemic, the dual writers’ and actors’ strikes in 2023 and more attractive tax incentives in other states and countries.

Both “The Pitt” and “The Studio,” which won the top prize in the comedy category, are shot in L.A., but the latter is actually set in the city, centering on a fictional Hollywood studio and satirizing the entertainment industry.

Gemmill, who was also a producer on “ER,” said he feels pride in knowing “The Pitt” serves as an example of a series that was successfully filmed in L.A. “When we get casting, I think they get like 3,000 submissions for each role,” he said. “That’s how hungry the people are that work in Los Angeles, so just the fact that we can do our small part is really important, but I hope other producers take note.”

Wyle, who won two Emmy awards, one as an executive producer on the series and one for lead actor in a drama, echoed Gemmill’s comments and said he attended the ceremony in July where Gov. Gavin Newsom signed California’s film tax credit boost into law. It will increase the cap on California’s film and TV tax credit program to $750 million, up from $330 million. Wyle said he gave a speech at the event, sharing his experience filming locally.

“I talked about our special effects coordinator on our show, whose name is Rob Nary, whose father was a special effects coordinator, whose grandfather was a special effects coordinator,” Wyle said. “I said it to highlight the fact that there’s generational talent in this city that’s worked in this industry for over 100 years. When you shoot a show here, you get the benefit of three generations of talent. You get a Rob Nary. You can put up a soundstage in another state, but they don’t come with Rob Narys.”

While production in L.A. overall is still on the decline according to the nonprofit organization FilmLA, which tracks production in the Greater Los Angeles region, television is serving as a bright spot. From April through June, TV production saw an increase of 17% compared with the same time period last year, with 2,224 on-location shoot days. That’s the highest total since early 2024, though it is still 32.6% lower than the five-year quarterly average, FilmLA said in a report published this summer.

Overall, on-location shoot days from April to June decreased 6.2% compared with the same time period last year.

Paul Audley, FilmLA’s president, responded to the Emmy wins for shows that shoot in town, saying in a statement to The Times that the organization “thanks them for choosing to film locally, and for helping to make Los Angeles the entertainment capital of the world.”

“These productions not only highlight the overwhelming talent that this region is known for, but productions like these employ hundreds of film industry workers and contribute to a strong and thriving economy,” Audley said. “Filming locally supports our communities, small businesses, and workers across every corner of the film industry.”

This article contains spoilers for the Season 2 finale of “Wednesday.”

In a world where teenagers grapple with accusations of withering attention spans and a lack of motivation, Wednesday Addams managed to rouse from a coma and made the back-to-school scaries feel even more like a mind trip by … summoning Lady Gaga?

“Wednesday” returned for the second half of its sophomore season on Netflix this week, picking up right after Part 1’s ominous cliffhanger to reveal its moody teenage protagonist evaded potential death and that she was ready to dive back into the twisty world of deadly family secrets, monsterly situationships and friendship woes.

In the middle of the new threats and old mysteries are the show-stopping contributions from the pop superstar (and honorary mother to all outcasts, including her legion of Little Monsters, as her fanbase is called). Lady Gaga, whose real name is Stefani Germanotta, made a roughly two-minute appearance as Rosaline Rotwood, a deceased professor at Nevermore, the school for outcasts that Wednesday (Jenna Ortega) attends, with second sight capabilities that trigger a Freaky Friday/body-swap interlude between Wednesday and her estranged friend Enid (Emma Myers). The multi-hyphenate artist also provides the song “The Dead Dance” to score what’s poised to be another social media dance trend akin to Ortega’s viral Season 1 moves to the Cramps’ “Goo Goo Muck.”

The Times spoke with creators and showrunners Al Gough and Miles Millar to break down the season. These are edited excerpts from the conversation.

You know where we have to start: Lady Gaga. Tell me the origin story of this casting.

Gough: It all grew out of the viral dance from the first season. Some fan, who should collect a lot of money, put Lady Gaga’s “Bloody Mary” [over the dance] — because it was “Goo Goo Muck”— and suddenly the dance became its own, whole new thing. We’ve always been huge Lady Gaga fans. And if there was anybody who was the ultimate outcast, it would be her. We just started a conversation with her and her team … is there a way for her to be involved in Season 2? We found this character — because obviously, she’s very busy and touring — that could be a small role, but it’s an impactful one. Out of that grew “The Dead Dance,” a song that she had which we heard a year ago and loved it. They’re like, “She’ll hold it for the show.” And we were like, “Oh my God.”

Millar: When we heard the lyrics, it was almost like she had written the song for the show. And we had this moment in Episode 7, which we’d always planned — we never wanted to repeat ourselves with Jenna doing a dance — but it feels like music and the show and dancing are integral now. To not scratch that itch creatively in Season 2, I think the audience would have been so disappointed. So it felt like, how do we honor the incredible Rave’N dance in Season 1, which became such an iconic moment, but do it in a way that’s different and celebrate new characters? That’s why we came up with the idea of the gala and seeing Agnes [Evie Templeton] and Enid come together. They’ve been antagonistic, and it felt like a beautiful moment of female friendship and blossoming and this incredible Gaga song was just like the icing on the cake.

I was expecting a long courting process when you’re trying to get Lady Gaga — like, writing letters.

Gough: The process wasn’t fast, but it was always very pleasant and complimentary. Everybody wanted it to work. I think that’s where we were starting from, is everybody wanted it to work.

Jenna Ortega as Wednesday Addams and Lady Gaga as Rosaline Rotwood. (Helen Sloan / Netflix)

There’s a lot of discussion right now about gaps between seasons, and obviously there were some factors that caused the gap here — namely the strikes, but also other projects. How do you feel about that, especially knowing the fan base skews younger? Is it harmful to maintaining that relationship with the material?

Millar: We certainly never wanted a three-year gap. I think the show feels like an event movie, in a weird way, so I think people are prepared to wait, but it’s not ideal. It’s something that we would never want ourselves, as viewers. It’s been gratifying that people have come back in the way they have, and we definitely feel their love for the show, but we had obstacles in terms of getting to that place, coming back. No one’s to blame. It’s just the reality of the strike and everything else. Now the focus is coming back quicker. We rolled right from production into the writers’ room; now we’re rolling right into production [on Season 3 in October]. We’re definitely on a faster cadence, and that’s certainly the plan moving forward.

That said, as hopefully you see on screen, it is a huge show. We have over 3,500 visual effects shots. We’re still finishing [the finale] this week. There are still shots that are going to be dropped in that monster fight on the roof, the fight in the clock tower. The most complex visual effects in the show actually is Professor Olaf, which is the Christopher Lloyd character. But that takes a lot of time and trial and error to get to the point where I think the show looks as good as it does. Certainly our imperative is to get the show back faster; I know Netflix has that goal and wish as well.

Gough: Our goal is we’ve got to create the best show we can create. As Miles said, it takes us a certain amount of time. When you get in your head like that, you can’t actually do your best work. I can guarantee you that’s something that the Netflix marketing department thinks about a lot. They certainly try to keep fans engaged online and through other ways. And the Netflix Houses now that have those [fan] experiences. Can you translate that and keep engagement? You’re right, there’s a lot of shows and movies out there and you want to be able to stay in the zeitgeist in that time when you’re not in the zeitgeist. But for us, at a certain point, we just got to create the show, try to keep all the noise outside.

In the space between Season 1 and 2, Jenna was pretty vocal about not connecting with the character choices from the first season. I’m curious how you felt as it happened? And what has “Wednesday” taught you about how to work with actors and how to consider their opinions or perspective about the material?

Gough: We’re not going to speak to some of that because we’ve spoken to it in previous interviews, but I think our philosophy has always been — from “Smallville” on down “Into the Badlands” — it is a collaboration and a conversation with the actors. We always say movies is a party, but a television show is like a family. They have to feel ownership. We had that with Jenna in Season 1 — she read all the scripts, she gave notes. She’s continued to do that in Season 2. She’s taken a more active role in terms of being in production meetings and understanding the marketing perspective and just having all of that. She’s a generational talent and she’s going to have a very long career, and the career will be more than just acting. Actors are the keeper of the world and they have to be able to [understand] their characters. We’ll take a good idea from anybody. You just want them to be engaged and to have good ideas and be thinking about their characters. It’s something we learned from John Wells, who we met with very early on, before we started running “Smallville,” to get his advice. That’s what he told us. As a creator, you have to have the vision for the show, but you have to be open to these ideas and funnel them through.

Enid (Emma Myers) and Wednesday (Jenna Ortega) in “Wednesday.” Season 2 explores the growing pains of the polar-opposite friends: “The end of Season 1, Wednesday made a friend, but then it’s like, OK, how do you be a friend?”

(Netflix)

Is it fair to say you took some of it into consideration because there was less of an emphasis on a love triangle, at least with Wednesday? We really see things build in the friendship between Enid and Wednesday.

Gough: The thing is, if your first boyfriend turns out to be a monster, there was never going to be like, “Oh, I can’t wait to dive back into a romance” idea. The show’s been in our head for six years; it was always like, Season 2 was once bitten, twice shy, especially if you’re Wednesday Addams — or once bitten, twice stabbed. That felt like the natural evolution. Again, she’s not a character who was, even Season 1 [boy crazy] and it worked great. People were invested and intrigued and wanted to know. I can tell you from having daughters — because most times it’s portrayed as the girls are loving for the boys. That’s not true in every situation. With my two daughters, it’s the boys who’ve been way more interested in the girls, and then they eventually come around or think, maybe I’ll do it. If you look at Season 1, Xavier and Tyler were way more interested in Wednesday. Wednesday had no interest and any time she even delved into what you would see as romance — she went to the dance because she thought he was a suspect. Wednesday never does anything because she goes with the flow. She’s either backed into a corner or it’s going to help her in her larger case. Even in that love triangle, we never betrayed Wednesday. She was never starry-eyed for either boy.

Millar: That love triangle worked, actually, very well. It’s the dramatic backbone of the season and leads Wednesday — because I think Wednesday, as we like to say, is often wrong; she is someone who just is very headstrong, and I think that’s what makes her so intriguing, that she’s complex and flawed. That’s an interesting thing for teenage female protagonist, who often aren’t that. It’s the journey of a teen; with Season 2, we can change it, and Jenna was in an agreement with that. It’s been a very successful partnership in terms of the steering the course of the character, and where she goes and how she behaves and what she says.

What were you interested in exploring between the Enid-Wednesday dynamic in Season 2? And how did you arrive at the body-swapping idea?

Gough: The end of Season 1, Wednesday made a friend, but then it’s like, OK, how do you be a friend? That’s something that she is still very Wednesday [about] and she still has her preconceived notions of Enid, which is, “I can’t tell her the secret, I have to save her. I can’t include her — she’s weak, she’ll lose her mind.” She doesn’t think that Enid can handle it, so she doesn’t really see her friend. With Enid, it’s even the case with Ajax, and moving on to Bruno, which is Ajax saw her one way, and she’s not that girl anymore.

The body-swap episode was a way to explore that so that they could see [what it’s like] literally walking a mile in somebody else’s shoes — in this case, their bodies — and seeing what it is that they appreciate about each other. It’s an idea that’s sitting there — they’re so polar opposites and they’re both such good actors that they’ve created characters with such specific quirks and body movement and cadences and things like that. To then put the one in the other, it just felt like, why wouldn’t we do that?

Millar: We’ve had moments of real darkness this season; we just need to have an episode where the audience is going to have the best time and it be a great ride. I remember we were on set and it was the moment where Enid wakes up in [Wednesday’s] body and starts screaming. Jenna can scream nonstop. She was screaming all day, but it was so incredible to hear. You didn’t know who it was really. It was complete transformation. It was definitely a challenge. It was more than halfway through the season, they were tired and it was a real testament to their resilience and professionalism that they really just went for it.

Gough: They would record each other doing the line so that they could hear. They studied like two A students. They really put everything into it.

The Addams family plays a bigger role this season. From left, Morticia (Catherine Zeta-Jones), Wednesday (Jenna Ortega), Gomez (Luis Guzmán) and Pugsley (Isaac Ordonez).

(Helen Sloan / Netflix)

You brought the Addams family further into the fold this season, particularly giving attention the mother-daughter dynamic between Morticia and Wednesday — their parallels, their tension.

Gough: The show‘s a comedy, it’s a satire, but it always comes down to [being] a family drama. Season 1 even went back Wednesday’s ancestor, Goody vs. Crackstone; then it was Gomez and Morticia vs. the Gates family. It all comes down to family secrets in this show. We wanted to expand that. The feedback we also got was people love the Addams Family and they’re intrigued by them because there’s no real mythology for the Addams Family. They didn’t have names until the TV show in the ’60s. Then you got a couple movies in the ’90s. People love them, but you don’t know much about them. For us, it’s great because it’s the opposite of “Smallville.” It is a clean slate where you can build the family tree. And we do it with the blessing of Kevin Miserocchi, who runs the Addams Foundation.

You got a taste of it in Season 1, with Morticia and Wednesday, and then you saw it in the Parents’ Weekend episode. But then the idea of Morticia is here, and what does that do? And the idea of this mother-daughter relationship, which especially in the teenage years, can be very fraught. They’re a lot more alike than they want to admit, on both ends. To take that very universal idea and relationship that a lot of people have experienced, but put it through the prism of the Addams Family with Morticia and Wednesday, and they solve their fights with swords and there’s more life-and-death sort of circumstances — that felt like a fun way to do it and a way to open up the show.

Millar: We really wanted to give Jenna some relief as well; she was in every scene of Season 1. It was a creative opportunity for us to explore different characters and to really expand the world of the show.

Thing, performed by Victor Dorobantu, and Jenna Ortega as Wednesday Addams in “Wednesday.” The rogue appendage received a backstory in Season 2.

(Netflix)

I loved getting an origin story for Thing.

Millar: The first thing you see of Slurp is this gloved hand coming out of the ground. We thought, “Oh, everyone’s going to know immediately; it’ll be the worst kept secret in Hollywood.” It’s been really gratifying because that’s such a great twist, if we could pull it off — it’s right in front of your face the whole time.

We talked about [whether Thing] should be attached to someone who is so evil. Obviously, he’s flawed. He’s often doing things for the right reasons; they’re sort of deranged reasons. But Isaac Night [Owen Painter] is a flawed character, but he’s also the noble genius as well. That was a debate. We had some other options we explored and went down the road with, but ultimately we thought it was this idea of transformation of seeing a zombie who then becomes human and the comic foil of Pugsley [Isaac Ordonez] choosing him like a pet dog, and then he starts eating brains — it just sounds so insane, but actually it make sense in the show.

Now I want to know the path you didn’t take with him.

Millar: We had a whole backstory for him, which is he was in a circus and he fell in love with a circus performer. It was a very much more sweet story, rather than this one, which is much more macabre, sort of inspired by Frankenstein, zombie movies.

What can you tease about Season 3? Will there be more Lady Gaga? Things ends with Enid being seemingly trapped in wolf mode and there’s Wednesday’s psychic vision of Ophelia, Morticia’s sister.

Millar: We’re in the middle of [writing] Season 3 now. Our lips are sealed. We can’t say anything, but obviously the end of Season 2 does set up that Ophelia will be coming to feature in Season 3. We’ll say that much.

By this time next year, will we have a Season 3?

Gough: I can’t say anything to that.

Netflix has released first-look images at its brand new historical drama House of Guinness, which is written by the creator of the BBC hit series Peaky Blinders

Netflix has released first-look images at its brand new historical drama House of Guinness.

The upcoming programme, which will launch on the streamer in the coming weeks, delves into the story of the family behind the famous brewery following the death of patriarch Sir Benjamin Guinness. A trailer for the programme dropped on Monday and teased a host of dramatic twists and turns that will play out over the course of eight episode.

In the teaser, it is revealed that the business owner bequeaths his empire to just two of his children and doesn’t want to ‘burden’ the others with such a responsibility. It is made clear that trouble will come to the forefront of the series as conflicts around money, power and family look set to rattle throughout.

READ MORE: Peaky Blinders creator’s new Netflix drama sends fans into frenzy with first lookREAD MORE: House of Guinness release date, plot and cast as Peaky Blinders creator lines up new Netflix drama

Throughout the preview from the upcoming drama, it’s teased that ‘rich men attract clever women’ after the line: “The man’s name is Guinness, of course there’ll be f****** trouble!” is bellowed amid a scene of what looks like a battle that is ready to break out.

A synopsis from the streaming provider reads: “House of Guinness explores an epic story inspired by one of Europe’s most famous and enduring dynasties – the Guinness Family.

“Set in 19th-century Dublin and New York, the story begins immediately after the death of Sir Benjamin Guinness, the man responsible for the extraordinary success of the Guinness brewery, and the far-reaching impact of his will on the fate of his four adult children, Arthur, Edward, Anne, and Ben, as well as on a group of Dublin characters who work and interact with the phenomenon that is Guinness.”

The cast is made up of a host of esteemed names from the acting world, including Masters of the Air star Anthony Boyle, Louis Partridge, who starred alongside Millie Bobby Brown in Enola Holmes, Emily Fairn, Normal People’s Fionn O’Shea, and James Norton, who has appeared in a string of television hits like War & Peace and Happy Valley but is currently on screen in the drama King & Conqueror.

Dervla Kirwan will also feature alongside Game of Thrones stars Michael McElhatton and Jack Gleeson, with Niamh McCormack, Danielle Galligan, Ann Skelly, Seamus O’Hara, Michael McElhatton, David Wilmot, Michael Colgan, Jessica Reynolds, Hilda Fay, and Elizabeth Daulau all rounding out the cast.

The series has peen penned by Steven Knight, who is best known for having created the BBC’s runaway hit Peaky Blinders. With Peaky Blinders running for six series and even launching an upcoming film, there’s a strong possibility House of Guinness will spark yet another successful franchise for Netflix.

The series is directed by Tom Shankland and Mounia Akl and penned by Knight.

The acclaimed showrunner is releasing House of Guinness ahead of two major film projects, including his Peaky Blinders follow-up film, The Immortal Man, arriving on Netflix in 2026.

He is also set to write the next James Bond movie, directed by Denis Villeneuve with the role of Agent 007 still to be cast.

House of Guinness will premiere on Netflix on September 25th 2025

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Fans don’t have long before it’s released on the platform

Netflix has given fans their first glimpse at a new series penned by the creator of John Wick – and fans don’t have long to wait.

Following on from the success of the Keanu Reeves-fronted franchise, Derek Kolstad has now turned his pen to the first-ever adaptation of the award-winning video game series, Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell.

The action movie architect served as the head writer on Netflix’s upcoming animated series, Splinter Cell: Deathwatch which stars Liev Schreiber (The Perfect Couple) as the voice of black ops agent Sam Fisher. Meanwhile Kirby Howell-Baptiste (The Sandman) takes on the role of Zinnia McKenna.

The first Splinter Cell game released in 2002 with the latest dropping in 2013. Eager fans have speculated that the upcoming adaptation is set after the events of 2005’s Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.

READ MORE: Netflix’s ‘female John Wick’ thriller with 91% score that’s better than Keanu Reeves spin-offREAD MORE: Netflix fans ‘cancel all plans’ over eight part thriller perfect for Harlan Coben fans

Netflix shared the first official trailer for the series yesterday (August 22). The 70-second clip teases plenty of action to come, and gave fans a proper look at Schreiber’s take on the legendary character as he takes on a mission that’s “personal”.

According to the brief synopsis for the upcoming series: “Legendary agent Sam Fisher is drawn back into the field when a wounded young operative seeks out his help.” It is slated for release on October 14, meaning fans have a few more weeks to wait.

One excited fan penned: “So it’s actually real. Feels like I’ve been waiting for this forever. Now all we need are some remaster/remake/sequel games. Would love to see remakes of the first two or three games.”

“The last Splinter Cell game was Blacklist released in 2013. How time flies… But I’m glad Sam Fisher is back, at least in animation,” said a second franchise fan. Meanwhile a third added: “It’s the adaptation we didn’t know we needed but now we need it.”

One John Wick fan quipped: “From the writer of the John Wick Franchise. Say less,” as another shared their surprise at Schreiber’s Sam.

“Didn’t expect Liev Schreiber to play a decent Sam Fisher!” they started. “Def not Michael Ironside but imo it’s better than what we got in Blacklist. Here’s to hoping this show succeeds so Ubisoft will give us another damn game already!”

Splinter Cell: Deathwatch releases on Netflix on October 14

It’s time to grab your best fit and hit the blacktop of Chavez Ravine.

Tyler, the Creator had his fans searching for words after he announced the lineup for his annual music festival Camp Flog Gnaw in a puzzling manner.

The “Igor” artist posted an actual word search on his Instagram containing the name of the musicians joining him for the 11th edition of the two-day event. His signature carnival will be on the grounds of Dodger Stadium on Nov. 15 and 16.

This year’s edition will feature A$AP Rocky, Childish Gambino, Doechii, Earl Sweatshirt, Thundercat and 2 Chainz.

An eclectic mixture of artists — from the raw hip-hop of sounds from Clipse to the indie-pop tracks of Clairo and the melodic vocals of T-Pain — rounds out the lineup.

Fans can join a wait-list for tickets, which sold out right after release in May.

The festival was founded by Tyler, the Creator in 2012 and incorporates music and carnival attractions such as rides and games. Previous iterations of the fest have staged artists like SZA, Solange, Kaytranada, André 3000 and Fuerza Regida.

Tyler, the Creator is coming off the release of his ninth studio album, “Don’t Tap the Glass,” and a world tour for his previous EP, “Chromakopia.”

Premios Juventud announced its nominees for its 22nd annual award ceremony. Puerto Rican superstar Bad Bunny and Venezuelan balladeer Danny Ocean both lead with six nominations each.

Not far behind are hitmakers Anitta, Beéle, Carín León, Emilia, Myke Towers, Netón Vega and Peso Pluma, who each count five nominations. Other nominees include Becky G, Camilo, Fuerza Regida, Grupo Frontera, Kapo, Karol G and more.

It’s a monumental year for the awards ceremony, which began back in 2004 as part of the Univision network, now under the media conglomerate TelevisaUnivision.

The live broadcast will take place in Panama City, Panama, which is the first time the show will be held outside of the U.S. The decision to host abroad follows TelevisaUnivision’s “commitment to honoring the strength, values, and traditions of Latin American communities,” the network writes in a press release statement.

But location is not the only new element in the works. The theme this year is “Evolucionando al ritmo de la música,” and that certainly seems to be the case.

This year, Premios Juventud is introducing eight new categories to its lineup that better reflect evolving youth interest, including best alternative Mexican music song, best pop/rhythmic song, Afrobeat Latino of the Year.

While there has historically been an emphasis on music and television, this year the organization is also honoring creators in the beauty and fashion industry as well as podcasters, streamers, travel vloggers and soccer enthusiasts. In recent years, the award show has opened up new categories for digital creators, advocates and comics as social media platforms have become a hot spot for growing Latino talent.

Winners of Premios Juventud 2025 are determined by votes from viewers, which can be cast at premiosjuventud.com from now until September.

Hosted by Dominican actor Clarissa Molina (and others TBA), the awards show will broadcast live on Sept. 25 from the Figali Convention Center on Univision, UNIMÁS, Galavisión and ViX at 4 p.m. PT, 7 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. CT.

The film is based on Richard Osman’s 2020 novel of the same name, but not everything has made it into the adaptation.

The Thursday Murder Club, which now has a full trailer, airs on Netflix on August 28 and fans of Richard Osman’s novel are desperate to see how it has been adapted for the small screen.

Boasting a star-studded cast, the movie follows four retirees who spend their time solving cold case murders for fun, but they end up with a real whodunit on their hands.

The film stars Helen Mirren as Elizabeth, Pierce Brosnan as Ron, Ben Kingsley as Ibrahim and Celia Imrie as Joyce, and it was directed by Chris Columbus.

Chris said of the film: “There’s a wonderful mystery at its core, so fans of detective and thriller films will not be disappointed.

READ MORE: Thursday Murder Club’s Celia Imrie drops news on adapting Richard Osman bookREAD MORE: Netflix makes huge Thursday Murder Club announcement and fans won’t want to miss it

“Thematically, I found it interesting that at the heart of the novel, there are four elderly people, living in a retirement community, who are obsessed with death and murder.

“They are in the last act of their lives, facing their own mortality, yet they are somehow obsessed with studying cold cases that deal with violent murders. I fell in love with that concept. It’s darkly comedic and deeply emotional.”

Translating the complex 350 page novel, which is full of plot twists, into a screenplay was actor and comedian Katy Brand’s responsibility.

“I remember thinking ‘there’s so much to play with here – it’s such an explosion of ideas.’ My immediate sense regarding adapting the book was that I wanted to draw out the emotion and Chris Columbus seemed to respond to that when we first met,” she said.

Chris opened up about how he initially became involved in the project, admitting the first scripts were not to his liking.

He said: “I was a fan of the books, but the initial scripts I read veered far from the novel. I felt that this was a mistake and I wanted to preserve what everyone loved about the book.

“When I first met with the writer, Katy Brand, I was convinced that she not only understood what made the novel so incredibly popular with readers around the world.

“But she also had the vision to write a film that was faithful to the source material. Katy’s draft was wonderful.

“And it was because of that draft that we were able to get so many British acting legends to commit to our film.”

The film also stars Naomi Ackie as PC Donna De Freitas, Daniel Mays as DCI Chris Hudson, Tom Ellis as Jason Ritchie, Jonathan Pryce as Stephen Best and David Tennant as Ian Ventham.

The Thursday Murder Club airs on Netflix on August 28

The creators of Comedy Central’s “South Park” reached a breakthrough Monday in the tense negotiations over the streaming rights of the long-running satirical cartoon.

Paramount agreed to buy the global streaming rights for “South Park” to bring the show to the company’s digital service, Paramount+, for the first time in the U.S., according to three people close to the negotiations who were not authorized to comment.

The deal with Trey Parker and Matt Stone, through their Park County production company, values the global streaming rights at $300 million a year, according to two of the people close to the agreement, who could not discuss the matter publicly because the deal is not final.

The five-year deal means the show will fetch $1.5 billion for streaming alone.

The sum preserves the show’s status as one of the world’s most valuable TV franchises.

Both sides were motivated to reach a deal before Wednesday, when Paramount’s Comedy Central channel kicks off the 27th season of “South Park.”

Paramount also wanted to avoid any public relations fiascoes when Stone and Parker take the stage Thursday at fan-fest Comic-Con in San Diego.

Separately, the two sides have been negotiating an overall deal for Parker and Stone, to renew their previous $900-million pact that kept the show on Comedy Central with new episodes through 2027. Parker and Stone’s team are seeking a higher valuation in order to produce new seasons.

This is a developing story.

No episodes of the BBC sitcom have been produced since the death of its creator in 2023 but the series will be back on screen for a Christmas special this year.

Two Doors Down is making a return to screens for a Christmas special later this year. The BBC sitcom – which followed the lives of residents living on a Scottish backstreet – initially ran for seven series from 2016 until 2023, and it was originally thought that no more episodes would be produced following the death of creator Simon Carlyle at the age of just 48.

But the broadcaster has now announced that the programme will indeed return for a festive episode, and Simon’s co-creator Gregor Sharp has written the script.

He said: “It’s really exciting to be revisiting Latimer Crescent with all the regular cast for this new episode. Christmas is a time for getting together with friends and family and then becoming low level irritated by them so it feels like they’re the perfect group to celebrate the season with.” The ensemble cast is made up of a host of Scottish talent, with Alex Norton and Arabella Weir starring as Eric and Beth Baird, whilst Jonathan Watson and Doon Mackichan play their neighbours Colin and Cathy Whyte.

Elaine C. Smith and Graeme Stevely will be back in their roles as Christine O’Neal and Alan respectively, whilst Joy McAvoy will make a comeback as Michelle, and Beth and Eric’s son Ian (Jamie Quinn) will return with his fiancé Gordon (Kieran Hodgson). The action will unfold when all the neighbours pile into Beth and Eric’s house to celebrate Christmas.

Josh Cole, Head of Comedy, BBC Studios Productions, and Steven Canny, Executive Producer, said: “We’re so pleased to be returning to Latimer Crescent and can’t wait for the audience to be back in Beth and Eric’s for another tortuous Christmas. Gregor and Simon created a brilliantly funny show that has an outstanding cast of memorable and loveable characters and we’re hugely looking forward to seeing them torment each other again.”

Confirmation of the special comes just months after actor Kieron let slip that something was on the way as he spoke of how “though” it would be to get back together without their creator, telling The Daily Record : “The first day on set without Simon will be tough for everyone. He was such an integral part of the filming, let alone the writing. He was there every day, all day. He was our friend. He was giving us notes. He was supervising it and guiding it.

Carlyle also wrote for Changing Ends, an ITV comedy series about Alan Carr growing up in the 1980s, and BBC LGBT+ show Boy Meets Girl. There no suspicious circumstances surrounding his death, it’s been reported. Jon Petrie, director of comedy commissioning at the BBC, said: “We are deeply saddened by the news of the death of our friend and colleague Simon Carlyle.

“Simon was a wonderful comedy talent who, amongst many other credits, co-created and wrote the multi award winning series Two Doors Down. His warm comic voice shone through these characters, garnering huge audience affection, and firmly establishing it as a long-lasting sitcom favourite. Our sympathies are with his family and friends at this difficult time.”

His death came before the seventh series of the sitcom went to air, and it eventually moved from BBC Two to BBC One for broadcast, although all episodes are now available on BBC iPlayer. Around the same time, actor Grado claimed that there would be “no more” episodes produced, and the production team spoke of how “deeply saddened” they were by the news of Simon’s death.

The sitcom’s production team added: “We are deeply saddened by this terrible news. Simon was a brilliant, funny, mercurial and magnificent human being. He had a microscopic fascination with what makes funny things funnier and we were so lucky to have known him. He was at the centre of all the work we made together and his loss will be felt profoundly by all of us. We send love and support to his family and friends.”

“Farewell @Simoncarlyle – I am totally devo’ed by your leaving us. The laughs won’t ever be the same. Sleep well pal. #RIPSimonCarlyle,” one Twitter user wrote this evening, as another fan tweeted Caryle’s Twitter account saying: “I’m devastated to hear you’re no longer with us. We started speaking when #TwoDoorsDown very first came on TV. Thanks for always being so kind to me and thank you for such an incredible show! I’ll miss our little chats. Thinking of everyone who knew you. Love.”

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Michelle Khare has mastered taekwondo, muscled through police academy and conquered Houdini’s deadliest trick. But now comes a different kind of challenge for the popular daredevil: proving to the Hollywood establishment that Emmy-worthy content arises from YouTube.

The host, known for her online reality series “Challenge Accepted,” is part of a group of YouTube creators with massive followings, producing high-caliber content, who are vying for Primetime Emmy Awards this year.

Although she won’t need to enlist the help of an Olympian or train for months this time around, she’s taking the challenge head-on. But while she’s been on the awards campaign, Khare said her top priority is letting her videos speak for themselves.

To that end, she’s taken on some high-profile challenges lately, including surprising Tom Cruise at the premiere of “Mission: Impossible — The Final Reckoning.” She got in by donning a mask a la the spy franchise, whipping it off for the big reveal. And she teased the process of training to take on Cruise’s infamous stunt of hanging off a plane as it’s taking off.

The video has garnered more than 800,000 views.

“My primary concern constantly is, ‘Is the show we’re making worth a nomination?’ and it needs to be, always,” she said.

Having a creator win an Emmy would be yet another milestone in YouTube’s quest for global dominance.

People now spend more time watching YouTube on TV screens than viewing subscription-based streaming services like Netflix and Prime Video, according to data from Nielsen. On average, there are more than 20 million videos uploaded daily to YouTube, according to the company.

Google-owned YouTube’s revenue last year was estimated to be $54.2 billion, which would make it the second-largest media company behind Walt Disney Co., according to a recent report from research firm MoffettNathanson.

Creators self-submitted for the awards, and YouTube has been supporting their campaigns to bring awareness to their content and sway Emmy voters. The creators and YouTube are jointly contributing to the campaigns. No matter what happens when nominations are announced Tuesday, this year’s push is a long time coming.

Traditional studios and networks have substantial budgets dedicated to awards campaigns because the trophies and the glamour of awards season are not just superficial. A major nomination or award serves as a signal of high quality and legitimacy. That would be all the more meaningful for online creators, who have traditionally been seen as on the outskirts of Hollywood.

For the individual creators and their companies, the investment in the Emmys race could lead to new or more fruitful relationships with advertisers and sponsors. The prestige recognition could also open the door for different opportunities for creators, like Lilly Singh’s late-night stint or MrBeast’s competition series on Prime Video.

Khare said when she met with YouTube Chief Executive Neal Mohan shortly after he was appointed in 2023, he asked her what the company could do for her. Helping a creator earn an Emmy was her request, she said.

“If it’s not me on July 15, if it’s anybody else, if it’s this year, next year, 10 years from now, I can’t wait,” she said.

Khare, who is hoping for a nomination in the hosted nonfiction series category, is in good company with two other YouTube shows in the running for awards this year.

“Good Mythical Morning,” a daily show hosted by YouTube personalities Rhett McLaughlin and Link Neal, and Sean Evans’ talk show “Hot Ones,” where celebrity guests eat progressively spicier chicken wings, are also eligible for Emmys. Last year, “My Next Guest With David Letterman and John Mulaney,” an “Only Murders in the Building” aftershow and “The Daily Show” won in the respective categories these YouTubers are hoping for a spot in.

“There’s a reason traditional Hollywood cares about awards,” Khare said. “It attracts the crew who want to work on [the show]. It attracts the audience to bring viewership, and it also attracts advertisers to financially support and make the show continually sustainable, in addition to all of the other wonderful publicity things that it does to elevate us into this world against legacy television.”

Khare said she always wanted to work in television and gained experience at legacy studios before joining BuzzFeed, which she called “paid graduate school for content creation.”

(Luke Johnson / Los Angeles Times)

In a 2024 guest column for the Hollywood Reporter, Mohan wrote that YouTube creators are not just vlogging from their bedrooms. They have writers’ rooms, production teams and business strategies. Mohan wrote that the Television Academy recognizing creators wouldn’t “detract from its storied history” but rather ensure the group is forward-looking.

“In order to maintain its relevance and emerge a leader in the digital age of entertainment, the Emmys should celebrate all kinds of content, especially the creators whose storytelling is pushing culture forward,” he wrote.

A 2025 report from the Television Academy released in February shows the members skew older. About 50% of the body reported their age, and of that group, roughly 68% are age 41 or older.

Much of the challenge in these creators’ quests to get nominated for or win an Emmy Award is making sure voters are familiar with their YouTube content. Although they each attract millions of viewers, Hollywood‘s more old-school folks might not have come across their videos before the awards push began.

Khare, who said she had always wanted to work in television, started off interning at legacy studios before she took on a role as a video producer for BuzzFeed in its heyday. She said her experience making YouTube videos for the media company was like going to “paid graduate school for content creation.” At the same time, she was “moonlighting” as a professional cyclist, she said.

Creating “Challenge Accepted,” where she often undertakes incredible physical tasks, was a marriage of her love for video content and athletics. And the extreme stunts she’s able to pull off make her particularly adept at getting attention online. Training like an Olympic boxer, for example. Or learning how to take hits like a superhero stunt performer.

Beyond what creators are doing and contributing to the campaigns themselves, YouTube is supporting the push for Emmys, most visibly by hosting its first formal For Your Consideration, or FYC, event in coordination with the Television Academy.

More than a decade ago, Bernie Su won an Emmy for a YouTube series he worked on. As far as he’s aware, his 2013 win marked the first time “the word YouTube has ever appeared on the trophy,” Su said. He went on to win two more Emmys, one for another YouTube series and one for a Twitch series.

The category for his YouTube wins, recognizing creative achievement in interactive media for an original interactive program, is judged by panels of industry professionals, rather than by popular vote.

But Su said his road to win the Emmys looked very different than the creators in the race today. YouTube wasn’t even aware he and his team were submitting their series for Emmy consideration in 2013, he said.

Still, Su said he’s rooting for Khare and the other creators in the running this year, especially since he’s seen firsthand how an Emmy Award helps to legitimize digital-native work.

“My parents are very much all about the three Emmy wins when they talk about their son,” he said. “Not about anything else. It starts there. That’s the nexus of the work that I do.”

YouTube declined to share how much money the company has spent to support the campaigns this year. Angela Courtin, a YouTube executive who’s helming the awards push, said the company is relying on “existing commitments” like billboard space and activations at film festivals to highlight the Emmy contenders.

“When they decided that they wanted to be seen among their peers equally, then it became our responsibility and our opportunity, as well as our privilege, to collaborate with them to do so,” Courtin said. “At the end of the day, the award sits on their mantle, not ours. It will never be in my office.”

Evans, left, Khare, McLaughlin and Neal each spoke to Television Academy members about their shows at YouTube’s For Your Consideration event in May.

(Araya Doheny / Getty Images for YouTube)

Offering this kind of support to creators serves YouTube too.

Beyond the benefits of recognition as a serious player in the traditional television world, and the potential boost in advertising dollars flowing to the company, YouTube putting both monetary and figurative weight behind creators is a worthwhile investment, said Jeremy Goldman, senior director of briefings at eMarketer. After all, YouTube doesn’t want to lose more of its talent roster to Instagram Reels and TikTok.

“YouTube creators can take their ideas elsewhere,” Goldman said. “The more you support them, the more likely they are to go to YouTube for future endeavors, which has been very valuable for YouTube, because it’s basically people creating [intellectual property].”

Brian Flanagan, the president of Mythical, the studio founded by YouTubers Rhett and Link, said seeking awards recognition is not about ego but about acknowledging the many people behind “Good Mythical Morning” and the other shows Mythical makes that draw audiences in the millions.

“GMM” is eligible in the category honoring short-form comedy, drama or variety series. Recent winners include “Carpool Karaoke: The Series” and “I Think You Should Leave With Tim Robinson.”

Mythical is also acutely aware of the business implications of a major award nomination or win.

“If you want to seek premium advertising, top-flight guests and other trappings of the best of the best of Hollywood television, it could really be a distinguishing mark, and we’d be excited to have that stamp on us,” Flanagan said.

Evans, who is vying for recognition in the talk series category with the likes of Jon Stewart, Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers and Stephen Colbert, told The Times in June that he feels “Hot Ones” should be in the mix with these traditional television mainstays.

“I didn’t know that we’d be a part of the conversation, never dreamed of it,” he said. “But now that we are, I’ll say with my full chest that we belong.”

Khare would also be entering a storied category with legendary past winners like Anthony Bourdain and David Letterman. That prospect, perhaps unsurprisingly given her record of daunting feats, doesn’t intimidate her.

The list of past winners in this category and other television stars who have inspired Khare’s work are mostly men. “I would love to inspire young women to go out and be great too,” she said.

Despite the tough odds of securing not only a nomination but shooting for a win in a competitive field, Khare remains optimistic about her chances.

“Conan O’Brien, I’m coming for you,” she quipped.

The creator of Blue Lock: Rivals thought kids on Roblox might like a soccer video game with an anime vibe. It sold a few months later for more than $3 million.

The 19-year-old, who asked that his name be withheld because he has never shared it publicly, made the game in just three months with the help of co-developers. It attracted more than 1 million simultaneous players following its release last year, he said, generating $5 million a month in purchases for Roblox Corp., the popular gaming platform.

Do Big Studios, an owner of other Roblox games that had helped develop Blue Lock: Rivals, bought the game in March, delivering a hefty payout to its teen owner.

Like YouTube, Roblox started two decades ago as an online stage for young creators. Video-game lovers could use the service’s tools to develop inexpensive, low-resolution entertainment. Now, as the company grows toward 100 million active daily users, contributors are finding there’s money to be had in selling the games they’ve created, with buyers prepared to pay seven or even eight figures.

“We’ve seen a real shift in Roblox’s ecosystem,” said David Taylor, senior consultant at the video-game-analytics firm Naavik. In June, seven of the 15 highest-earning games on Roblox had been acquired from their original owners, according to his research.

The shift has been spawned in part by policy changes at Roblox. A December update to the service lets players easily transfer game ownership. Previously, Roblox said such sales were against its terms of service and community guidelines. A company spokesperson added that Roblox isn’t currently participating in secondary-market transactions.

Do Big has been scooping up other titles, including Roblox’s biggest hit ever. In May, the company bought a stake in Grow a Garden, currently the most popular game on Roblox, for an undisclosed sum. The farming title broke records in late June, when it attracted over 21 million simultaneous players — more than Fortnite from Epic Games Inc. Another Roblox game company, Splitting Point, had taken it over the prior month from an anonymous teenage developer for an undisclosed sum.

Representatives of Do Big didn’t respond to a request for comment.

In February, an anonymous developer sold Roblox’s then-most popular game Brookhaven RP to Voldex Entertainment Ltd. Voldex’s founder and chief executive officer, Alex Singer, said the deal, with financing arranged by Raine Group and Shamrock Capital, was “bigger” than the reported sum that Embracer Group AB paid for Roblox’s Welcome to Bloxburg in 2022, though he declined to be more specific.

“When there are more dollars paid out to creators, it attracts more people,” said Singer, 24.

A report at the time put the Welcome to Bloxburg sale price at $100 million, though officials at Embracer said it was less.

According to Roblox, the company’s top 10 developers earned $36 million each in the 12 months through March. The San Mateo, California-based company may pay out more than $1 billion in total to creators for the first time this year. In 2023, CEO Dave Baszucki predicted that by 2028 a Roblox developer will be valued at $1 billion.

Over a dozen companies buy, develop and sometimes flip Roblox games. Much of the activity is conducted over the chat app Discord, according to Connor Richards, a lawyer with Odin Law & Media who’s been involved in a dozen deals. He’s seen minors earn a few hundred thousand dollars from these deals.

Another technology lawyer, Adam Starr, said he’s facilitated about 20 Roblox deals over the last year and is receiving more inquiries than ever. The developers often opt to remain anonymous.

Voldex’s first major acquisitions, Driving Empire and Ultimate Football, cost the company seven figures, Singer said. A subsequent agreement with the NFL allowing the company to rename the property NFL Universe Football helped grow its audience.

“We’ve been able to sustain our communities and games and grow them while keeping players happy,” Singer said. “That’s really important.” He’ll assign a team of programmers to analyze and improve a game, often alongside the original creator.

Roblox games rise and fall with kids’ whims. A paintball simulator might die off after another creator publishes a Roblox clone of Ubisoft Entertainment SA’s Rainbow 6 Siege. Only the rare game remains popular for months or years. Creators who know this will sometimes sell their games at a price equal to just one or two months’ revenue. Others go for 12 months’ worth of sales, according to Naavik’s Taylor.

Independent game developers also trade their art or programming work for a share of game ownership.

“Roblox is very capitalist,” Voldex’s Singer said. The company “wants creators to be economically successful.”

D’Anastasio writes for Bloomberg.

In the latest episode of The Envelope video podcast, we sit down with “Paradise” creator Dan Fogelman in front of a live audience at the Newport Beach TV Festival to hear what he has planned for Season 2 of Hulu’s buzzy dystopian drama and much more.

Kelvin Washington: Hey, everybody, welcome to this week’s episode of The Envelope. Kelvin Washington here alongside Yvonne Villarreal and Mark Olsen as usual. You two, we want to have a conversation about Emmy nominations. We know they’re gonna be coming up — this will be the last episode before we find out who is nominated — so you got some some bold takes? You got some things on your mind? Don’t roll your eyes!

Yvonne Villarreal: No, not rolling! I’m getting ready. You know, streaming obviously still dominates a lot of the conversation, whether it’s “Severance” or “The Studio.” But I’m going to say, I look forward to seeing my girl Kathy Bates get a nomination for “Matlock” on CBS. That is my prediction and I’m sticking with it.

Washington: All right, Mark, you got a bold one for us?

Olsen: I’m going to go with Matt Berry for “What We Do in the Shadows.” The show just wrapped up its sixth and final season. And he’s just been such a comedic powerhouse on that show. And season after season, he’s been so inventive, so fun. And I just think it’d be great to see him recognized for the totality of the work that he’s done there.

Washington: The person I’m gonna name is in this show you mentioned, “Severance.” Tramell Tillman. Milchick. There’s a moment on my other show that I do, I danced and everyone said, “Oh, you’re Milchick! What do you think, you’re Milchick?” Everyone’s just screaming — it was a whole thing. That was one of the signature moments of the season, I think.

Villarreal: Why don’t you ever do that here?

Washington: First off, it’s early. You don’t know what I’m gonna do the rest of this episode. You don’t know.

Villarreal: I don’t have a drumline here.

Olsen: He’s in the new “Mission: Impossible,” “The Final Reckoning,” and I saw that at a public [screening], and the moment he came onscreen, people cheered in the audience. Like he has such a fan base from the show.

Villarreal: Well earned.

Olsen: Beautiful thing for him! Let’s talk about, you had something cool you got to do, Yvonne, speaking with someone that you’re familiar with, Dan Fogelman, showrunner for “Paradise.” You got to this at the Newport Beach TV Festival, where you sat down and had this conversation in front of a live audience. He got a showrunner of the year award as well. It was really cool, right?

Villarreal: It was very scary. I do like audiences, but I do get a little nervous. Speaking with somebody that I’ve talked to many times helps ease the sort of stage fright there. Dan Fogelman is somebody that I have spoken to a lot of times over the years because I covered “This Is Us” from beginning to end.

And it’s funny because I remember, last year I was on the set of “Only Murders in the Building,” which he is a producer on, and they were filming on the Paramount lot for their sort of trip to L.A. last season. And he had just started production on “Paradise” on the same lot. And he took a break and headed over to our neck of the woods on the Paramount lot to show everybody a cut of a scene that they had just wrapped for “Paradise.” He was so excited to share that with everyone, and he’s like, “Yvonne, you gotta see this, you gotta see this,” and it’s Sterling K. Brown doing a scene and you’re just in awe of it. This show has political intrigue, there’s a murder mystery, there’s the destruction of the planet, and the premise is Sterling K. Brown plays a Secret Service agent who’s accused of killing the president and is sort of trying to unravel who was really at fault here, and that’s just on the surface. There’s a lot more to it than that because Dan Fogelman is known for his twists, and he didn’t disappoint here. So it was really fun to unpack that with him in front of an audience

Washington: A whole lot of twists in that show, for sure. All right, without further ado, let’s get to that chat with Dan Fogelman. Here’s Yvonne.

Sterling K. Brown in “Paradise.”

(Brian Roedel / Disney)

Villarreal: Dan and I go way back.

Fogelman: “This Is Us” days.

Villarreal: I had the great privilege of covering “This Is Us” from beginning to end. And that show, I would often come to you and say, “Why are you making me cry?” And “Can you make me cry some more?” This show, it was very much, “What is going on here?” Talk about the genesis of this show, because it actually predates “This Is Us,” the kernel of the idea.

Fogelman: I’d started thinking about this show long before “This Is Us.” When I was a young writer in Hollywood, they start sending you on all these “general” meetings, which is, basically, you go to meetings with important people with no agenda. And it can be a very awkward dance. You tell your same origin story a hundred times. At one of these meetings, I was meeting with a captain of industry, a very important person. As that person was speaking to me, I was not hearing anything he or she was saying. I was calculating how much money I thought they were worth. I was thinking, “Is this a billionaire? Am I in the room with a billionaire?” And on the way home — this was a long time ago — it was in the shadow of 9/11, and a nearby construction site dropped something, and it made a loud boom, one of those booms that shakes you for a second, and I thought to myself, “Wow, when the s— really hits the fan, that guy’s gonna be as screwed as all the rest of us, because all the people that must take care of him are going to run after taking care of their own people.”

I started thinking about that. I started to think about a Secret Service agent and a president, somebody whose job it is to take a bullet. And this idea of telling a murder mystery of an ex-president underground and learning later that the world has ended above. That was the impetus behind it. I kind of put it away. I wrote “This Is Us.” I talked with some big sci-fi writers about the idea, thinking maybe I could produce it for somebody better than me to make it. And then when “This Is Us” ended, I was like, “I’m gonna try and do that one.” And so it took like 15 years to come back around.

Villarreal: What do you remember about those conversations with the other sci-fi writers?

Fogelman: People thought, “Oh, that’s a cool idea.” But that’s as far as it goes because that’s lot of work to then figure out the cool idea. And that became the problem with this show. I wrote it and I had to sit down and figure out how we were going to do it, and what was the tone going to be, and what were the twists and turns. They all kind of said, “Thanks but no thanks,” because it seemed really hard, I think. I just waited and did it. It takes a while and it takes a village; it takes a lot of writers sitting with you and figuring out how to shape the world.

Villarreal: How much was it tugging at you during “This Is Us”?

Fogelman: During “This Is Us,” I was pretty in “This Is Us” and a couple of other projects at the time. The last two years were like fraught with COVID, and there was no more in-person stuff, and everybody was wearing masks on set. It was a really tough two years of a six-year show. At the end, in the final season, we did 18 episodes and I had 18 Post-it notes on my wall in my office, and each time I would finish a script, I would “X” it out. And each time I’d finish an edit, I’d “X” it out. Because that was how much left I had to do. They’re still on my wall in my office to this day because it was so exhausting and it was such a big accomplishment to just be done with that, when it was over, I was like, “Oh, now’s the part where I take the Post-it notes off the wall.” And I never did. They’re just still hanging on by a thread there. But then I took a break for six months, and I started getting the itch to write something. That idea kept poking through and poking through. I just wrote it without telling anybody first.

Villarreal: One of my favorite things about a creator like Dan, a writer like Dan, is you’re that person who likes to watch people watch something. During “This Is Us,” I remember you would be so excited about a scene or something, and you’d be like, “You gotta see this,” and you would screen it in the next room. “Paradise” too — when “Only Murders in the Building” was shooting on the Paramount lot for their trip to L.A., you were doing “Paradise” at the same time, and you took a break to sort of come see the set of “Only Murders,” which you’re an executive producer on. And you had this scene with Sterling and you wanted to show it.

But you were hesitant about pitching this to Sterling, which I’m sort of surprised by because I think you know when something’s good. Talk a little bit about what made you nervous about giving it to him and what he would say.

Fogelman: I’m a person who operates off of obligation. My best friend, [who] gave a speech at my wedding, said, “You can ask Dan for anything and he’ll feel too guilty not to do it.” He’s like, “He’s my ride home tonight” — that was his joke at my wedding. I felt worried that Sterling would feel obligated after “This Is Us.” When we ended “This Is Us,” I remember very vividly Sterling wrapping, and I did a little impromptu quick thing when he was wrapping and I was like, “Sterling, you go out in the world now and make us proud.” We could all see what’s coming for Sterling and what remains to be coming for him. I was like, “Go win your Oscars. Don’t forget us when you’re even more famous” — that kind of thing. To come back to him a year and a half later with a script for another TV show with the same guy, I wasn’t worried that he wouldn’t like it; I was worried that it would put him in a weird position. He was so gracious. I sent it to him. I had written it picturing Sterling but never vocalizing that to myself. Then I started letting friends read it to get their feedback, and they’re like, “Did you develop this with Sterling, or was it his idea?” And I was like, “No, I’ve never talked to Sterling about this.” And it started occurring to me that if I didn’t get Sterling, I had a huge problem because that is who I’ve been picturing. I sent it to him, and he read it that day and called me back and said, “Tell me where it goes” — because obviously if you watch the pilot, it doesn’t tell you a lot about where it’s going. I gave him the broad strokes of where it was going for three seasons. I said: “It’s three seasons, I want to shoot it in L.A. Here’s what the arc of it is. Here’s where it’s going. Here’s what happened in the world.” And he said, “I’m in.” We just kind of shook hands. And that day we were off to the races.

Villarreal: What did he think about the twists in that first episode?

Fogelman: Sterling emotes, right? Sterling will come into the writers’ room — he’s an executive producer on the show — and if you pitch him something surprising, he falls to the floor and rolls on his back like a golden retriever. He reacts and he emotes. So, he was really into it. He had the same question I think everybody had after the pilot, which is, “What happens now?” I kind of had the rough answers. As you know, he’s the best guy. I was just outside, and somebody was asking me, like, “How do you get Julianne Nicholson and James Marsden to do your show?” I’m like, “Well, it helps if you already have Sterling K. Brown because they all want to work with Sterling.” And hopefully they tolerate me and the script. It’s been a gift with him.

Villarreal: You said Sterling sort of became the person you were thinking about as it evolved. How did you decide who should be which characters? Why was Sterling right for Xavier? Why was Julianne right for this tech billionaire?

Fogelman: There’s not a lot of art to it. You just kind of see it in your brain a little bit. Sterling I’d worked with, I had known Julianne and James from their work, not personally. The other actors in the show, for the most part, I’d known of their work or whatnot. Most of them read, and when you’re doing this job, a big part of your job is you see a lot of really beautiful, talented people read the same lines of dialogue. And your job is to think, “Which person fits it? And which person makes it most interesting?” Jon Beavers, who plays Billy Pace, was an actor I didn’t know. And I really wanted him from the moment I saw him on tape. I was like, “This is the guy for that part.” But I knew, because it was only four episodes, that there might be a clamoring for a bigger name in the part. Because it would be possible. Because you could go cast anybody because it’s a month of work if they were willing to pay him. And so Jon came in and he read and he read again. And then you get to a part where it’s like chemistry tests. And he was reading with Nicole [Brydon Bloom] and a couple of other people who [were in the running to] play Jane. And I just loved him. He walked out of the room at the end of it, and I ran out after him and I said, “Jon, would you ever look at a new scene that I haven’t given you yet? It’s from the fourth episode, and you’ve only got the pilot to audition off of.” I knew the scene was big, and I wanted to have a piece of material that would be undeniable if I needed it to win with the powers that be. And Jon sat with the scene for three minutes and came in to me and said, “I’m ready.” And he came in, and it became his big scene right before his death in the show where he confronts Julianne’s character, Sinatra. And actually, when I first Zoomed with Julianne, I showed her the scene. I was like, you want to see something cool? This guy did this in three minutes without any preparation and look how good it is. And so part of it is just like a gut instinct or really liking somebody for it. And I had that with everybody in the cast on this one.

Should I be funnier? I feel like I should be funny.

Villarreal: Do you have a Sterling story?

Fogelman: What’s my best Sterling story…

Villarreal: He’s bare naked in this.

Fogelman: Oh, my God. When I first showed him — because Sterling takes eight years to watch or read anything, except for this pilot. And it drives me crazy because I want Sterling to like it, and I’m very excited. I’m like, “Have you seen the second episode?” He’s like, “I haven’t had time, man.” I’m like, “You haven’t had time to watch a 50-minute episode of television? It’s been a month!” And it drives you crazy. But then he finally saw that third episode and he was like, “Dan, all anyone’s going to talk about is my ass. Is it gonna be released in the first batch of episodes?” ’Cause he went a hundred years down the road and was seeing the press where they always wanted to ask a question about his ass. But he loves it. He’s so proud of it. And the first person to see “Paradise” was my mother-in-law [and wife]. I showed them the first three episodes at home before anyone had seen it. [My mother-in-law] had lived and breathed “This Is Us” with me; my wife was in the show. And when that part came on, the shower, she started fanning herself. And she said “Oh, Sterling!” That made him very happy. That was his proudest moment of the show, I think.

Villarreal: This show is marketed as a political thriller, and the question that looms over the season is, “Who killed the president?” But then you get to the final moments of that season opener and you realize, “OK, there’s a lot more to this. This seemingly all-American town is really this community carved under a Colorado mountain after an apocalyptic event.” What was going through your mind in terms of how to piece it out? How meticulous were you in the edit — like, is this is revealing too much too soon?

Fogelman: It’s less in the edit, because at the edit you’re already pretty bound to what you’ve scripted, but it was in the writing stages. My intent for the show was that in the first season of eight episodes, we were going to provide answers every week, ask new questions and hopefully have provided a complete meal by the end of the season where, for the most part, I think any question you’ve been asking in the course of the first series of the show is answered by the end of the season. I was very clinical about that. I get frustrated when shows give you too much too quickly but also when they withhold for too long. I thought, for this one, I wanted to be really calculated about it. In the second episode, you start learning, “Oh, wow, the world really did end, something catastrophic happened” and you’re learning more about Sinatra; in the opening sequence of [Episode] 2, Sinatra is telling all these other scientists that something imminent is coming for the world. We would constantly, in the writers’ room, put ourselves in the minds of the television audience. If I was watching at home, I’d say, “Oh, they’re all in the ‘Truman Show’; this is all fake, it’s a social experiment.” At what point do we get rid of that theory for the audience? At what point do we tell the audience and show the audience what actually happened on the day the world ended? And so that was really calculated with how we were gonna parse it out.

Villarreal: The press get episodes ahead of time. But it was interesting watching people watch it week to week and see their reactions on social media. The show launched with three episodes, then it switched to weekly. How much were you involved in those discussions about starting with three episodes at launch?

Fogelman: That was a big conversation. I’ve got a great studio and network who involve me in the conversations. I don’t know if I could move the needle if I disagreed strongly with anything, but they at least involve me. My first instinct had been, “Let’s let the pilot be the only thing that gets put out in the world and let people talk about it and what that ending says.” But then you have to acknowledge the fact that people are being served television in just a very different way these days. The whole point of the show is I wanted to make something that was hopefully artful and well done but also propulsive, and you don’t want to frustrate people. We’re accustomed to hitting that drip of next episode, next episode. So while I did want that week-to-week build and momentum, I was also aware we have to give them a little bit more to hook them in. And ultimately you trust the people that are like, “We know how things play.” I wanted this show to get seen. That was a big conversation: Was it one episode? Was it two? Or was it three? Ultimately, they decided three. The downside of that is you get less weeks to build the momentum of a television show that people are starting to talk about. It worked in our favor this time. I think it’s what we’re going to do this coming season, most likely. We do it on “Only Murders” as well — release two or three up top. I did “This Is Us” and other network television shows where it was like, you know when “This Is Us” launched, it had that big twist ending, and then people sat on it for a week and talked. But it was a different time. It was 2016, and we were not as on that Netflix kind of drip of just sitting like hamsters hitting the dopamine button. You have to weigh that. I love a weekly release. My whole goal with this show was to capture a small sliver of the zeitgeist where people could be talking about something, hypothesizing and talking, and I knew that required a weekly release. But how many [episodes to launch with] to get people like locked and loaded was a big debate.

Villarreal: What was the episode or the moment that you were most eager to see how people responded to?

Fogelman: So, my process always has been, I find strangers — I could pick out 20; I try and have them vetted by people who know them, so friends of my writers, friends of actors — and I start bringing them into my edit bay early and screen for them. There’s this old screening process that used to happen in television and film, which is really bad, because you just literally give people dials. You guys familiar with this? You give people dials and you say, “When are you liking something? Turn up your dial.” All you’ll hear is they don’t like that actor, they don’t like that moment. And I’m like, “Well, yeah, the grandfather was dying. I don’t expect them to be going, ‘Weeeee!’” It was a very broken system. But I do believe in screening stuff for people and seeing how they react, even if you’re not going to change it; even if you go, “Well, you’re stupid, you don’t get how brilliant I am.” I bring people into my edit bay all the time and strangers who sign [nondisclosure agreements] — I would do that on “This Is Us,” I did that here. I was very interested to see what happened at the end of the pilot to people. Are they following it? Are they following the ending the right way, the way I want them to? After that, you would start hearing murmurings in the room as the camera’s rising and as the guy’s going “the world’s ending” and they realize they’re underground. After, I will say things like, “When did you start realizing something was amiss? Did any of you get ahead of it?” I will get a little bit more granular. It was exciting in the fourth episode when we killed a character, watching an audience in my small little edit bay, watching them go with that episode, knowing we were about to pull the rug out from under them. And that they were going to have a reaction — that was exciting. It’s exciting when it goes the way you want it to go. They were turning to me going, “You motherf—, you can’t!” You’re like, “Oh, good. That’s good. That’s a good day at work!” Watching people watch that last episode and feeling them move with the explosions, that’s my most exciting thing. I started doing films, and this experience of communally watching stuff you don’t get in television. For me, you get limited opportunities to watch people react to the thing that you slave over every detail of as a group. I have 300 people making our TV show right now, and we never get to see people watch it. That’s a really exciting part.

Villarreal: Fans are so savvy — they can rewatch, they can zoom in, they can pause and really look at details. Are you ever worried they’re going to get to the mystery before you’ve gotten there?

Fogelman: I screen ad nauseam. As an example, in our premiere, there’s an assassination attempt of the president in the premiere, and the guy doing the assassination attempt is a character that hides in plain sight throughout the series; then we get to the end, and that’s the murderer.

Villarreal: Spoiler alert.

Fogelman: But that actor’s mother, or longtime manager, was at the premiere and said to the actor, “I wish I got to see an episode you were in.” And he was like, “I was in that episode.” And she said, “What?” We do that level of testing where we feel pretty confident when it’s going out in the world, it’s not gonna get spoiled. But we were locking our pilot, the first episode, before Christmas, to air in January, and the big expensive shot was the big final shot that goes up and reveals the inner workings of the dome. I showed my brother-in-law and my sister-in law. My brother-in-law had taken way too many weed gummies, so he wasn’t the best audience, but at the end, he’s like, “Are they in outer space?” I kind of was like, “You’re so stoned. You need to stop with the weed gummies.” But then somebody else in the room was like, “Oh, I thought that for a second.” I went back into my writers; I was like, “Go screen it for your families more.” And one out of every 20 persons was having a misunderstanding that they were in a space station. So we went back and we spent a fortune — I had people work over the holidays because I got more granular. I was like, “What is it that’s saying space station to people?” And it was these red lights we had combined with a couple of other different lighting choices, and we went to the drawing board with our visual effects to make sure there was no confusion about what was going on at the end of it. I’ve always said good television is made by people who take it way too seriously. And I have like 20 people in my writers’ room and 300 people on my crew that take it really seriously and that’s part of it.

Villarreal: How does it compare to sort of the secrecy that surrounded “This Is Us”? There were red scripts, there were NDAs.

Fogelman: The world has moved faster now, so I’m less worried about it. “This Is Us” was an anomaly because it was so in the zeitgeist for a moment — “How did he die? What were the secrets?” But it was also so early in this moment of the internet and spoilers and whatnot that now I’ve kind of chilled out a little bit. I do “Only Murders in the Building,” and the showrunner of that show, John Hoffman, is very frenetic all the time that if one little Easter egg is in a trailer, it’s going to ruin the surprise for everybody. And I worry a little bit less now, maybe because I’m old and lazy, but I worry a little less. I think the media is pretty forgiving. I watch “Survivor,” it’s my favorite show, and I’m so tired of those blurbs you see on your timeline that they show the face of the person who got voted out the night before; it drives me absolutely insane. I have to like blur my vision all the time. I hate it. But I think for the most part, the media’s done a better job [with] if there’s a spoiler, you’re going to have to dig for it as opposed to it being accidentally in your face. I thought “White Lotus,” did it [well]; everybody was really responsible with it this year.

Villarreal: Inherent to this apocalyptic event is this idea of starting over, starting fresh and trying to correct some of the mistakes or errors of the past. What intrigued you about those existential questions at play here?

Fogelman: I think we’re all there a little bit right now. I had this idea 15 years ago, and the idea that everything was changing and it was quicksand under our feet was a little less prevalent back then. I was very drawn into the early years of “The Walking Dead” — those early seasons of that show were so good because ultimately it wasn’t about zombies or apocalypse, it was about, “If the s— hits your fan, what levels will you go to to protect the people you love? How far would you break bad?” I was interested in that notion. I was interested in the notion of putting a really good man in the center of it as opposed to an antihero. Because Sterling exudes decency as a human being, and this character is so hard and quiet and [an] old-school action hero. I was curious about what it was like to put that guy in that world, so that appealed to me.

I went to a little carnival recently, and my little boy wanted to get a balloon animal. He was really patiently waiting in line for the balloon animal. And I was watching him, and he was really patiently just waiting and waiting, and this mother kept coming over and bringing multiple kids and cutting the line in front of him because her kid was in front him, and she kept bringing friends and other kids. And I was using it as a case study and I was watching my little boy; I’m like, “I wonder how he’s gonna react.” He stood there patiently, but the balloon animal guy said “five more minutes and I’m packing up.” I was like, “Oh, is he gonna run out of time?” I was originally watching it as a case study on my little boy. Then I started filling with rage. And I was like, “I’m going to kill this woman. I’m going to have to go over and be the parent who says, ‘Excuse me, ma’am, your children are not in line for the balloon animal. My son is.’” And I was like, “No, don’t do it, don’t do it.” It fascinated me what started happening in me as I held back and didn’t say anything. And he got his balloon animal. He’s a spoiled little brat. He’s fine. But that stuff really intrigues me, especially if you raise the stakes to end of the world and all of that.

Villarreal: What did it make you think about in terms of the lengths you’ll go to?

Fogelman: I think we’d all go to extraordinary lengths. And whereas “The Walking Dead” focused on that, this focuses a little bit more on what the people in power do. As you learn more about Julianne’s character, Sinatra, [the question becomes], “What length will you go to save not just your own family but a portion of humanity? What are the right things to do in these situations?” And so it takes my balloon animal story and puts it on steroids a little. And that was really interesting to me.

Villarreal: Speaking of case studies, I feel like we’re living a case study right now in terms of a president and the people around him and the influence or power that they have. And obviously [the show] predates some of the [recent] headlines — whether it’s Trump and Elon Musk or whomever. What was the research you were seeing about the power dynamics in a role like that that were interesting to you at the time?

Fogelman: That really caught us off guard, the Elon Musk-president relationship, because there was one point in our third episode where, in a flashback, Julianne [as Sinatra] walks into the Oval Office from a side room, and I remember having my bulls— meter going off on my own television show going like, “Is this realistic? She’s not the chief of staff of this guy. Could she really be walking in and out of the Oval Office?” And lo and behold, here we are, all this time later. So I was like, “I guess it’s realistic.” Our research was actually somewhat more focused on the logistics of building a bunker city, of governing in a bunker city, of, “What would the electric vehicles be like? How would they source food and clothing?” There are so many more answers hidden in the production design of the show than you actually see onscreen. We had a dissertation written by a professor of sociology on how the best way to govern would be. A benevolent dictatorship was deemed the best form of government for this particular situation by people who said, “How would you keep people alive and in a functional way?” I’m not talking in the United States, I’m talking about in this bunker city. That’s what we think in our mind’s eye Sinatra had the research to see and say, “I’m going to try and do the right thing for all these people down below as best I can and try and keep the people at bay.” We did a lot of research on governance, on infrastructure, on things about nuclear and thermal energy that I can’t fathom nor understand, but that my writers all understood — how the place was powered and all of that. A little less on power dynamics between billionaires and power just because I think you kinda know what that is. It’s a lot of people in a room who are used to being the only person who everybody listens to.

Villarreal: But also, who do you trust? Cal [the president, played by James Marsden] has Xavier, he’s got Sinatra. It’s interesting to see whose input he takes in.

Fogelman: And ultimately, we try and make everybody fallible, but also everybody kind of have a point of view and a place where they’re coming from. I think in the second season of the show, you’ll see where Sinatra was coming from on the big picture even more. You kind of know where Marsden’s coming from, you know where Sterling’s coming form, and those are all the people pushing against one another in the show.

Villarreal: No matter what side of the political spectrum you fall on, I feel like everybody feels like we’re in a doomsday situation at the moment and change is needed. How do you create escapist TV at a time like this where people have issues on either side?

Fogelman: I remember when the show was coming out, having a degree of concern about that, just based off the timing and things I couldn’t control. We’ve been here in different ways before. When you look at all the periods of history, it always felt at different points of our history, like, “Oh my, wow, the sky is really falling. This is for real this time. This isn’t like it was for our parents’ generation or the generation before; this is worse.” The X factor right now that’s making people say, “No, this is the one that’s the worst” is the technology has shifted so dramatically. When the Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated, it was with a single person. Now those single people have much more scary stuff. The technology and the AI is much scarier. I wanted to make something that had climate change as a factor, but I also wanted to create a scenario that wouldn’t be the one that would keep people up at night. This is an extreme kind of worst-case scenario fluke occurrence that could happen. It’s based in some science, but it’s not the most likely way the world is going to end. We were trying to find ways so it could be palatable.

Villarreal: Thanks for that assurance because that was my concern. How likely is this to happen?

Fogelman: We have a writer on our show who’s one of the foremost experts on climate change.

Villarreal: Please talk about that.

Fogelman: Stephen Markley. He wrote a novel recently — it’s a masterpiece of a novel. He was hired for the show because of it — called “The Deluge.” Part of entertainment is we created a big tsunami and a big crazy action-adventure episode of television. The reality of climate change will happen quickly, but in less world-encompassing kind of ways. And if we don’t get on top of it, it’s a huge, huge catastrophe waiting to happen. As an example, and Stephen covers this in his book: I’m by no means a climate-change expert, but a lot of us roll our eyes when we talk about six inches of sea-level rise because it doesn’t seem like the thing that’s going to necessarily end the world. But along with the many, many, many, things that come along with that, when that inevitably happens, if we don’t stop, when parts of Miami go underwater, it won’t be a drowning of a half of a state or a city necessarily, because it will happen slowly and then quickly. What will happen is, as we’ve seen out here in California with the fires, you’re talking about an economic and housing collapse that will dwarf anything we saw in 2008. If you think about how hard it is to get your home insured now in California, just wait. That’s the stuff that’s less sexy than a tsunami sweeping over a 400-story building. But unless we get our heads out of our asses, it’s coming. Our balancing act is, “How do we make something not pedantic, make it entertainment, make it so that you can do it, but also maybe shake people a little at the same time?”

Villarreal: The conversations in that writers’ room must be insane — just TED Talks all the time.

Fogelman: It’s also a lot of fart jokes. It’s a nice balance. But it’s a heady, heady place. Season 2 deals with a lot really heady stuff, and I try and understand it as best I can and then let the smart people battle it out.

Villarreal: I want to get into some of the details of the show because details make everything. Can you talk to me about why Wii?

Fogelman: We just thought it was funny. But also, in Season 2, you’ll learn the origin of the Wii for Jane. Our sixth episode that we’re shooting right now actually is called “Jane,” and it’s her backstory episode.

Villarreal: How about the fries? How did you land on the cashew cheese fries?

Fogelman: We landed on the fries primarily because we decided there would be no dairy down below because having real dairy would require so much maintenance of chickens and eggs and infrastructure and animals and cows that it wouldn’t be feasible. Cashew and nut cheese was the thing that they would put on cheese fries. We thought it was an interesting way of making it a key clue in the show, but that also tied into where they were and what they don’t have.

Villarreal: Are we going to learn any of the other songs on Cal’s mixtape? Are they important?

Fogelman: No, there is another song that plays heavily towards the end of our season from his oeuvre of music, but no. We’re actually getting very Elvis-heavy [in] Season 2, not related to Cal’s music. That’s a little bit of a spoiler.

Villarreal: Can you talk about Phil Collins of it all and finding that cover? Was it originally like, “We want the Phil Collins version”? Or “We want this really eerie, scary version”?

Fogelman: Originally, the show was called “Paradise City,” and the song at the end was Guns N’ Roses’ “Paradise City.” Then I soured on it as a title and it made the song being the song less important. When I got my first editor’s cut of the pilot, she had found that cover — Julia [Grove], our editor — and put it in. And I was like, “Oh, yeah, that’s it. That’s the one.” In my mind, I always thought it would probably be a cover of one of those two songs. I don’t know why, because there’s something about ’80s music — you’re really on a fine line when you use it on a show or in a movie; it can get funny quickly, even if accidentally. Like, “We Built This City,” if you put that in without it being a cover, it makes you smile, but maybe in the wrong way in the genre of television. We felt that it would be good to use covers from the very beginning that could evoke the songs but kind of transform them a little bit.

Villarreal: This show has you thinking about budgets in a different way because you’re dealing with special effects or action scenes in a way you weren’t on “This Is Us.” What’s a scene from the series we’d be surprised got a lot of notes because you have to be like, “I don’t know if we can do it this grand because this is what we’re working with…”?

Fogelman: We never got that. We have a really great studio and network that work with us. We’re given the money we have, and then it’s how we choose to use it. We knew Episode 7 was going to be an expensive episode for us where you show the world actually ending. So what we would do is on Episodes 5 and 6, if we needed to cut a corner here or there, we would do that to save up the money for that. But we never really had that on this show. We also stayed on budget. I’m sure we would have had that if we were over budget, but we never really had that.

Villarreal: You’re about to get the showrunner of the year award, and as a fellow writer who’s very fearful of ever becoming management, I’m very interested to know how your creative process has changed since becoming a showrunner.

Fogelman: It’s a big job. I don’t always relish it. I was with a group of showrunners the other night for a different thing, and we were all just lamenting how exhausted and miserable we all were — in a funny way, because we also all love it. The management is tough. You’re the CEO of a large company. I say 200, 300 people, [but] it’s really 1,000 people when you talk about the people who day play and do special effects and visual effects and all of the stuff. It’s a lot of bodies, and you’re managing a lot of people, and managing people is the hardest part of your job. It takes up a lot time. I don’t go to set very much anymore. I did at the beginning of my showrunning career because I felt like I should and because I wanted to be there because I was the boss. And I started realizing it was just not a good use of my time. I mainly focus on writing, breaking the episodes, writing them and editing them, and that’s where my time goes. But you need to be there for people. On any given day, there’s somebody on your crew who’s not happy with something, and you’re putting out those fires. It’s a tremendous amount of work. One of the things that’s been striking to me, and I say this to people all the time, is, at the end of “This Is Us,” I would make gestures to people who worked on the show, whatever they were, but what would stand out more than anything, and I always felt like it was doing so little, [was] to write somebody a note on stationery. And I was constantly struck by how much it meant to people to be individually seen. People are really kind of lovely and great and don’t require that much. They just wanna be seen and they want their work to be seen. And it’s the difference between writing a little note to somebody that says, “You’re doing a great job” versus “I saw what you did on Tuesday, on Thursday, with that scene, and it’s not lost on me, and I see you, and I appreciate you.” It takes one minute of my time, but I’ve learned how meaningful it can be to people. You try to be better at it and then you inevitably fail. If you were a decent person, you go home and you’re scolding yourself, but it’s been an eye-opening, weird experience.

Villarreal: Well, before we wrap, I know we talked earlier backstage that you’re about halfway through shooting Season 2. What can you share?

Fogelman: I’m really excited about it. I just started editing. Like you said, I show people stuff all too much. And so I’ve just started editing the first two [episodes] and they’re really good.

Villarreal: How soon do things pick up?

Fogelman: Right after. It’s a slightly different show at times in the second season in that part of the season lives outside in the world. We’ve lived almost entirely claustrophobically inside the bunker [so far], and we do live there a lot in [Season 2] and pick up directly from where we left that world. But you’re also living in Sterling’s story and the story of the people he comes across, and those stories eventually collide. It’s a different, exciting show. Shailene Woodley joins the cast this year. I just wrote her a note. She’s extraordinary in the show. I’m really excited for people to see her in it. When you’re doing something different, it’s exciting and daunting, and that’s the best kind of feeling. You’re like, “Oh, I’m not dead inside. I’m very excited about this season.”

Villarreal: Is there something that won’t make sense now but will when we watch?

Fogelman: Elvis.

Villarreal: Any other people from “This Is Us” making an appearance?

Fogelman: Right now, yes, there’s a few. I’m careful about it because I don’t want it to get distracting with Sterling. I did a show called “Galavant,” and one of my actors in it, Tim Omundson, was one of my favorite actors ever, and he had a part in “This Is Us” and now is joining in a part here. There’s another one that I think they’ll yell at me if I announce it, but it’s smaller. I’m always looking at stuff to do with those guys. I just saw Mandy [Moore] and Chris Sullivan the other day, and I’m always looking for stuff for those guys; Milo [Ventimiglia] and Justin [Hartley] and all those guys.

On the most basic level, “Stick” is about a prematurely washed-up golfer who takes a teen prodigy under his wing and on the road. Off they go in an RV to hit some big amateur tournaments, accompanied by the kid’s mother and the old pro’s irascible buddy. The kid gets to fall in love with a free-spirited lass. Adventures are had. Lessons are learned.

But very little about golf takes place on a basic level (except maybe in “Caddyshack”). The sport is rife with metaphors. Lay up or go for broke? (see also, “Tin Cup.”) Keep your cool under pressure or lose it in the sand trap? So it makes sense that “Stick,” premiering June 4 on Apple TV+, uses the game of golf to take a swing at the game of life.

The wash-up, Pryce Cahill (played by Owen Wilson), seeks redemption. Years back, he flipped out on the course, and his life has been in free fall since — he and his wife (Judy Greer) are getting a divorce, and their home is being sold. But then he meets the 17-year-old prodigy, Santi (newcomer Peter Dager), who he sees as the key to a second chance. Santi, meanwhile, knows he’s good; when he pummels a ball, it sounds like a sonic boom. But his first coach was his hard-ass, now-vanished dad, and Santi now has trouble taking golf seriously or respecting his elders.

These human elements intrigued series creator Jason Keller far more than anything that might happen on the links. “I love golf, but I’m not good at it,” he said. “I am routinely frustrated by it.”

Owen Wilson, left, Judy Greer and Peter Dager in a scene from “Stick.”

(Apple)

Frustration, of course, is a universal quality. So is disappointment. These are the elements that pushed Keller, who wrote the screenplay for the 2019 movie “Ford v Ferrari,” to create “Stick.”

“Long before the story was set on a golf course, I was really interested in exploring a character who had not lived up to expectations,” he said. “I was interested in characters that had great promise but ultimately didn’t achieve that promise. What happens to somebody afterward? How do they react to that? Do they let themselves be defined by not achieving that level, or do they try to reconcile that? Does it motivate them to excel in other areas of their life?”

Wilson, who also readily admits his golf game isn’t the strongest — “My dad and my brothers played, but I was always intimidated by it” — sees another key parallel to life: As much as you seek perfection, you can never achieve it.

“There’s a little bit of a chess thing with golf, in that you can never really master it,” he said. “That can feel like life too. People talk about Tiger Woods winning the Masters by like 12 strokes and deciding his swing isn’t quite right. Pryce talks about how the game takes and takes and takes. I think people feel that way about life as well.”

Mariana Treviño, the Mexican actor who plays Santi’s mom, Elena, agrees that “Stick” is about dealing with hardships. “Elena is in a moment in her life where she had a big disappointment,” she said. “Her family broke down. Sometimes in life when something very strong happens to you, you just kind of shut out from the world. You think that you’re going to protect that wound by just not moving too much from a place, or not directly confronting something that is painful.”

“Long before the story was set on a golf course, I was really interested in exploring a character who had not lived up to expectations,” said “Stick” creator Jason Keller.

(Matt Seidel / For The Times)

If this all sounds a tad serious, “Stick” really isn’t. As with most anything starring Wilson, whose Texas/California cool works just fine in the series’ Indiana setting (Keller hails from Indianapolis), “Stick” feels easy and breezy even when it gets into heavy-ish themes. The tone suggests a riff on “Ted Lasso” but with golf instead of soccer.

Wilson and Marc Maron, who plays Pryce’s grumpy, long-suffering best bud (who is dealing with grief of his own), keep up the steady banter of two guys who know each other’s foibles and try to resist the urge to poke them. Zero, Santi’s new friend and life guru played by Lilli Kay, is a self-described “genderqueer, anticapitalist, postcolonial feminist,” and the series manages to have fun with her without making fun of her.

Elena, meanwhile, is mildly suspicious of the whole endeavor, but she finds the aging white golfers amusing. She also likes the cash Pryce has thrown her way for the privilege of coaching her son.

Put them all together in an RV, and on a series of golf courses, and you’ve got the makings of a modern family comedy. Except most of the “family” aren’t related.

“They’re a sort of a found family, and they are all very different personalities,” Keller said. “But ultimately they are what each other needed, and none of them knew it. I think that’s the beauty and the fun and the heart of the show. We’re watching a group of people that don’t fit together at first, and then they realize they needed each other. I hope that warmth and the feel-good element of that is felt by audiences.”

“They’re a sort of a found family, and they are all very different personalities,” said Jason Keller about the characters. “But ultimately they are what each other needed, and none of them knew it.” Lilli Kay, left, Mariana Treviño, Judy Greer and Marc Maron in “Stick.”

(Apple)

But that sense of major disappointment, and the question of how to turn the page, still lingers over the story. Keller is intimately acquainted with that kind of challenge.

He was 25, newly arrived in Hollywood, when doctors discovered a benign brain tumor. It was successfully removed, but the subsequent nerve damage meant Keller had to retrain his brain to let him walk again. Now 56, he says he “didn’t realize what a gift that hard experience was. I became very grateful for being physically healthy.”

Keller used that sink-or-swim experience to write his “Stick” characters. “Everybody has a point in their life that just brought them to their knees,” he said. “It could be a divorce or the death of a loved one. We all face these personal tragedies or challenges. What do you do with them after you go through ’em and survive ’em? That’s the real question.”

Even Santi, the youngest character in “Stick,” has been burned by life. “He’s scared, and he has every reason to be,” Dager said. “His father left him.” And he responded by building a hard shell and walking with a swagger.

Dager embraced the whole package. “I fell in love with his past but also his soul and the way he protects himself with the humor he uses as a defense mechanism,” Dager said. “And then once we get to know him and he starts to fall in love and he starts to trust people, you really see the kid. You see who he actually wants to be.”

And if you do happen to be a golfer, if you know a birdie from an eagle, an iron from a wood, “Stick” doesn’t skimp on the sports stuff. It might even inspire you to go out to the garage and excavate that moldering set of clubs. Or not.

“The golfers I’ve shown it to have connected to it and appreciated it at the level of the sport,” Keller said. “And the others who have seen it who are not golfers seem to be responding to it at a purely emotional character level. I think they’re connecting to it. We’ll see if we got it right. I hope we did.”