scene

CANNES, France — You see and hear the films of Scottish-born Lynne Ramsay long after you first take them in. They have a way of burning into your brain. Sometimes it’s a question of immersive soundscapes or settings, as with her brutal 1999 debut “Ratcatcher” or the euphoric post-boyfriend girls’ trip “Morvern Callar.” Elsewhere Ramsay makes violence grippingly personal, as with 2011’s “We Need to Talk About Kevin,” about the dissociating mother of a school shooter, or 2017’s “You Were Never Really Here,” a coiled revenge tale spurred by a kidnapping.

It’s good that we remember these movies so well because Ramsay’s output has never been steady. She’s had some bad luck with turnarounds and fickle producers (notoriously on the projects “The Lovely Bones” and “Jane Got a Gun,” which swallowed up years).

But today, sitting in the sunlight garden of a quiet Cannes hotel blocks from the action, Ramsay smokes and sips coffee contentedly. Her latest movie, “Die, My Love,” a marital psychodrama starring an impressively unhinged Jennifer Lawrence, has just hours earlier been acquired by Mubi, the upstart distributor that released last year’s “The Substance,” in a deal reported at $24 million.

It’s a cheering turn of events for a director who inspires devotion not only from critics and A-listers such as Tilda Swinton and Joaquin Phoenix, but from a generation of young filmmakers who see in her work a defiant, punkish way forward, especially for women in artistic control. We spoke to the 55-year-old Ramsay about her process and making “Die, My Love.”

I was very happy to hear you had a film at Cannes. It’s such a rare thing.

Hopefully less rare now.

So let me ask you directly about that and I hope you take this in the right spirit: Do you wish you’d made more films by now?

Oh, yeah. There was one I was just about to shoot called “Stone Mattress,” based on Margaret Atwood’s novel, a little short story in a novella. We were just about to do that. But the producers were pushing for Iceland as a location — it’s meant to be in the Arctic. I wanted Greenland. It just felt like we were cutting the lines down. The actor, Julianne Moore, would do a couple of lines in one location, fly four hours and do the rest of the scene.

And I just don’t work like that. I can’t do it all broken up in pieces and it’s not good for the actors either. So I was like, I don’t think this is the right thing. And then I was like, maybe I should have just done it. But I’ve written a lot. I’ve got three scripts, one that’s totally ready, one that’s almost ready and then another that’s in development.

I think people really want to know from your point of view: Are you just uncompromising or especially picky?

I don’t know. I was speaking to my friend Jonathan Glazer about that. Everyone says to him, “Why don’t you make many films?”

It was basically 10 years between “Under the Skin” and “The Zone of Interest.” He’s going to disappear now for another 10 years.

I don’t know if he will. We were both talking, like, We’re not getting any younger. We’ve got to hurry up. [Laughs.] But yeah, no, it’s not by design. It’s just life takes over. I have a daughter, there was COVID, stuff nearly gets there and falls through. It’s just a tough industry. I am picky in the sense that if you’re going to stick with a project for two or three years, then you want to know that you’re doing the right one. You don’t want to be down the line with it and think, God, I wish I hadn’t started this.

Jennifer Lawrence in the movie “Die, My Love.”

(Festival de Cannes)

Meanwhile, it must be exciting when a star like Jennifer Lawrence reaches out to you about a film you made 25 years ago, as she did about “Ratcatcher.”

Well, it was funny. She said she wanted to work with me. That was nice. She was talking about this particular book [“Die My Love” by Ariana Harwicz] and I was like: Look, I’ve just done “Kevin.” I don’t want to do more postpartum things and I won’t do that. And then I think I was doing “Stone Mattress” for a while and I probably was just being terrible and didn’t get back for ages.

But then I was like, OK, I have an idea. If it’s a love story — a bonkers, crazy love story — if it’s got many layers to it, I’ll do it as an experiment. We’ll see how it goes. And then it kind of worked.

A postpartum story isn’t the whole picture. Neither is a love story.

Right. I suppose it’s a bit of a lot of things.

I know that you like mashing up genres. Do you still want to make a horror film, like you’ve said in the past?

I’m making a vampire movie.

Really?

Yeah. I can’t tell you much. It’s with Ezra Miller who was in “Kevin.” He’s the main character. That’s in development.

I feel like I may be waiting a while to see that one.

[Laughs] You won’t wait for 10 years. I don’t have 10 years. I’ve got to do it quicker than that. That’s what Jon [Glazer] said. We need to speed up. He’s one of my favorite filmmakers. And PTA as well.

How does it feel being at Cannes again?

Actually, this time I feel quite relaxed. I think the first time I came, I got quite nervous. You get really wound up. My husband was a musician and I remember squeezing his hand so hard at “Kevin,” he said, “You’re going to break my guitar hand.” People were coughing. It was a real Cannes audience — they’re pretty hardcore.

But now I feel quite relaxed because I like the film myself. Sometimes you’re super self-critical. I was watching it in that big theater and I’m going: Change that, change that. We’ve only been editing for four or five months and that’s not long. So we’re still tweaking it. I did a mix in five days.

When you’re working with actors such as Robert Pattinson and Jennifer Lawrence, they bring so much iconography. How do you strip that away and be like, I’ve got this piece of work that I want to do here?

I think they were very willing participants. There was a lot of trust. I try and create an atmosphere of trust and I just threw them into the fire. I did the sex scene on the first day. I thought it’s a risk. It’s either going to work or it’s going to be a disaster. But I could see there was chemistry. And when they arrived, I was getting them dancing. They were dancing together, synchronized. And it was fun. And then I think Robert was a little nervous, but then something just kind of broke the ice.

Doing a sex scene on the first day will break the ice, I imagine.

The first day I was scared. I was like, oh, my God, was this a good idea? But it actually was a good idea. Sometimes I’ve left those scenes for later and then it builds up so everyone’s gotten all nervous. You start this scene and they’re all thinking about it and overthinking it. So I just chucked them in the deep end.

Then there was a different scene, a longer one, and there was loads of dialogue and we only had a few hours — the light was going, maybe an hour-and-a-half left. And I saw the DP lying in the grass, Seamus McGarvey. And we both looked at each other and were like: There’s no way we’re going to finish this scene. There’s no way we can do it.

And we’re both lying in the grass and we look down at the grass and I look at him and I go, “Well, what if they’re like cats in the grass? Why don’t we just do it here?” So I’m running back to the bloody actors and I’m going, “Right, OK, we’re changing the whole scene, taking all the dialogue out. And you’re both cats. You’re both like cats.” And they’re both like, what the f—?

You just discovered that in the moment?

Yeah. Because we didn’t have the time and I’m really glad I did. And they were so trusting. Robert was like, “That was a good scene.” Then Jen went, “Yeah, I can see it.” It was all at breakneck speed. We shot it in an hour or something.

Lynne Ramsay on the set of “Die, My Love.”

(Kimberly French)

And you’re giving them an experience they will never have with a director who follows a plan to the letter.

Yeah. A film’s a film but a script is a script. I mean, it’s a different beast. You’ve got be able to throw things out if they don’t work or you don’t have time. So you go to think of something and often that’s better. But after that first day, I knew they thought, oh, God, what are we in for?

I’ve heard that Jennifer Lawrence was pregnant in real life at the time.

Yeah. I didn’t know that until about four weeks before [the shoot]. I think she was a bit nervous about telling me. I was like, “You OK about this?” I was worried. But she was glowing and was so happy to play crazy. And she was excited by the ideas. She was like, “Yeah, let’s do it.” She’s a punk, man.

Your vision of America is very interesting to me. It’s never super realistic so much as an amplified America from the point of view of someone outside it. What do you think about America these days?

Well, I wouldn’t want to live there right now, but I always loved America. I lived in New York for quite a long time when I was making “You Were Never Really Here,” when I was making “Kevin.” I’ve always loved New York. It’s got a crazy, wild energy. L.A. I find a bit more difficult. I feel it’s like “Mulholland Drive.” But there’s a beauty to it as well. The light is amazing.

Your Montana of “Die, My Love” is also unique, filled with local color but almost an abstract place where a marital unraveling can take center stage. What was important to you to emphasize, setting-wise?

We actually shot in Calgary but Montana’s just down. My backstory was that they lived in New York — he was trying to get in a band, it didn’t really happen for him, he was kind of a slacker. And she’s written a couple of things that got published. Now there’s this idea that they’ll have a new life, because the house is free and a lot of young couples, if they get something like that, they’re like: I moved because New York’s expensive. And then the house becomes its own entity, in a way. We shot the beginning already inside the house, not from the outside [going in], and for a reason: The house is looking at them. There were elements of “The Shining.”

I picked up on those. And when you have actors like Sissy Spacek and Nick Nolte as parents, they create a kind of gravity of their own. Were they familiar with your films like Jennifer Lawrence was?

No, I went to them because they both meant a lot to me growing up. My dad loved Nick. Since “Badlands,” I’ve loved Sissy Spacek, In the book, the mother-in-law’s kind of gone crazy, but she played it much more that she saw exactly what was happening.

When we first meet the main characters, we hear them telling each other the lies they’ve probably been saying for a while: I could really record my album here. You can write your Great American Novel. Do you think that they end up in a place that’s more truthful by the end of the film?

I had writer’s block as well for a while and I was like Jack Torrance in “The Shining” writing the same sentence again. Recutting it. You get stuck in things and then when you’ve got a baby as well, it’s much harder to do anything. Your life completely is turned upside down. So I think they’ve got all these aspirations: It’s going to be great and wow. And then she just feels really isolated and she’s stuck with a baby. And she’s bored and she’s just gone nuts. I suppose I did think about “Repulsion” and, of course “A Women Under the Influence” — that sort of tragedy where they love each other but don’t understand each other.

Do you ever feel trapped by the massive reputation of your early films?

I love when I rewatch them, like, 25 years later. I saw “Morvern Callar” with a young audience a year ago or something. A couple years ago, because the film was 20 years old, and it was really nice. It still played and they were all laughing and they really got it. I think that film was kind of dumped at the time because I think I pissed off the financiers. I wanted a different poster and I made a big deal about it — and I love the poster still. And they wanted something much more conventional.

The poster for that is so perfect, though. I still remember it. It’s flush with a kind of heat, an intimacy.

I kind of fought for that. They wanted something that looked like a Mexican western or something. It was nice. But I’ve still got that poster in my place in Scotland against a black wall, where it really pops. And these kids were really getting it — even though she’s got a Walkman, which is completely, I mean, a million years ago.

It’s a little dated, but it works. You captured something essential about Samantha Morton and now with Jennifer Lawrence too. Do you ever find yourself thinking in terms of awards or Oscars?

No, I gave that up a long time ago. In fact, my mom had all my BAFTAs, so I hadn’t seen those BAFTAs for ages. We were cleaning out her house. I gave all them away.

Were they in her closet or something?

No, she had a little cupboard that she just put them in, but I just kind of forgot about them.

She was proud of you.

Yeah, they were in a little glass cabinet and I forgot all about them. Then I got them back and it was weird.

Where is home? Is it still Scotland?

London, actually. And Scotland. I have a place in Scotland too, but my mom passed away quite recently — it was only a couple of weeks ago. So I had the funeral as well as filming and then it’s been quite a challenge.

Is she the one the film is dedicated to?

Yeah.

“Die, My Love” is very explicitly about motherhood. What do remember about your mother? What did she teach you, in terms of being an artist?

She taught me how to be a filmmaker, to be honest. She taught me to sit. I watched the best films when I was a kid and they thought I was deaf for a long time because I just ignored everybody else. It was a big noisy family. And I think she just showed me these cool films. Her big one was — I mean it sounds so random for me — but she loved “Imitation of Life.” She watched that a million times. “Mildred Pierce.” And “Vertigo.”

She taught you how to give yourself over to a film?

Yeah, she just loved movies and so did my dad. But my dad would be a bit more annoying because he’d tell you the end. He’d be like, “This is going to happen.” You know what I mean? And I’d be like, Dad! I wouldn’t watch it. But I think she was a really interesting smart woman. Not from a film background. They were working-class people, blue-collar people. But they loved images, they loved cinema.

Glasgow is a place of blue-collar intelligentsia. It’s a really good education system there. So my dad was so bright — my mom as well. They used to say, “Let’s go to the movies, the pictures.” Really cute. And my mom had a photographic memory, so she would be like, “This film is from 1940,” blah blah blah. And then this actor’s in it. She’d know all these obscure actors. And it was great. They were excited and it made me excited. She just was a very kind person. Everyone was devastated.

I’m sure you’re still feeling it. I hope you don’t mind me asking about her.

I am. But I’m feeling a bit more at peace. It was quick and it wasn’t expected. And funnily enough, the music supervisor’s mom died one week later. I didn’t know it was coming. So we’re all a bit in shock. My mom, she was 88. She had a life.

When will be the appropriate age for you to show your daughter your movies?

[Laughs] I don’t know, 18?

How old is she now?

She’s 10. Maybe “Ratcatcher.” Maybe about 16 or 15. I don’t know. They’re all kind of hardcore.

You probably made it when you were 25.

I did, somewhere about that or 26. My daughter’s a really bright child. The one thing I’ve shown her that she came in for — I was watching it late at night and she woke up — was “The Shining” and she was glued it. And I said, “I don’t think you should watch this — you’re too young.” But there’s only one killing in “The Shining.” You know what I mean? And there’s not a lot of horror. She loved it. I mean, it was like the best. She said, “I might watch ‘The Shining’ again.” She’s super artistic.

Do I have a promise from you that I’m not going to have to wait 10 years for the next film?

Nah, definitely not. I’m on it. Jon Glazer too. We’re both like, we need to rock and roll, man.

This story contains spoilers for “Andor” Season 2, including Episodes 10 through 12.

When Elizabeth Dulau first heard what showrunner Tony Gilroy had planned for her character in Season 2 of “Andor,” she burst out laughing.

“I just couldn’t believe what he was saying,” says the actor, who portrays the aloof and steadfast rebel spy Kleya Marki in the “Star Wars” series. “And then my first thought was: I need to keep this a secret now for years. How on Earth am I going to do that?”

Kleya plays a pivotal role in the final three-episode arc of “Andor.” After Imperial intelligence officers finally uncover Luthen Rael’s (Stellan Skarsgård) ties to the Rebellion, the antiques dealer attempts to kill himself before he can be captured and interrogated. When Luthen fails, it’s left to Kleya to tie up his final loose end and then deliver vital information to the rebels on Yavin.

Dulau, who didn’t even know if she would be called back for Season 2, learned of Kleya’s storyline in 2023 when Gilroy called to tell her he wanted her to return.

“I’m glad he told me then because it gave me a long time to really ponder how to prepare for that scene,” Dulau says. “He said, ‘We want her to be the one that kills him, and we want it to be additionally heartbreaking because she doesn’t have time to say goodbye.’”

“Andor’s” final episodes sees Kleya utilize the skills she’d honed as Luthen’s closest and most trusted associate as she infiltrates a heavily guarded hospital to reach him. But rather than breaking Luthen out to save him, Kleya’s only option is to unplug him from the machines that are keeping him alive. Then, she has to make sure the information Luthen died for is delivered to the Rebellion.

“We do not have a bad moment of film of her in our cutting room,” says Gilroy, comparing Dulau to Meryl Streep. “She’s unbelievable.”

Elizabeth Dulau says it boggles her mind that Kleya’s story ties into “Star Wars’” famous Death Star plans.

(David Reiss)

“Andor” marks Dulau’s first acting job after graduating from the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art in London. While the audition came to her as a role in an “untitled Disney+ project,” she’d heard on the down-low that it was for a “Star Wars” project. She has since been cast in shows including “All the Light We Cannot See,” “Gentleman Jack” and the upcoming “House of Guinness.”

“The beautiful thing about Kleya in Season 1 is that she’s such a mystery,” Dulau says. “You can tell that she’s important, but she’s sort of on the peripheries. There’s so many question marks, so it’s such a delight that a lot of those questions get answered this season.”

That Kleya ultimately plays a role in helping the Rebel Alliance get the Death Star plans needed for them to eventually defeat the Empire also “boggles my mind,” she says.

“It’s not lost on me that Tony has literally written me into Star Wars history with that storyline,” Dulau says. “That blows my mind because it’s so iconic and I have a teeny, tiny little corner of that now.”

Dulau, in a conversation edited for length and clarity, discusses Kleya and Luthen’s relationship, her character’s commitment to the Rebellion and working with Stellan Skarsgård.

There is so much that happens in Episode 10, but how did you approach that final moment where Kleya has to unplug Luthen from life support?

Tony made it very clear to me that he didn’t want her to totally break down in that scene. That breakdown, for Kleya, comes afterward because she’s still in action mode. In that scene, I really wanted to connect with all the love that had grown between her and Luthen, against both of their better judgment, but also all the hate. When Luthen and whatever team of men came to the community she lived in and destroyed them when he worked for the Empire, Kleya was not so young. She would remember her mom and dad. She would remember if she had siblings, any best friends. Luthen is not innocent on that day. He was brave enough to save Kleya, but we don’t know what happens outside of his ship.

Then they spend the next 15 years protecting each other and continuing to save each other. So against their better judgment, love grows between them. I think they’re constantly being pulled apart by that. It’s too scary to acknowledge the fact that they’ve come to really care for each other because this awful thing is there. I wanted to try to condense that and make it as clear as possible in that scene when I go to kill him.

I spent a lot of time leading up to shooting on that day daydreaming. I use daydreaming a lot in my process. And I daydreamed about that day — what happened, what Kleya saw and what she did not see when Luther and his men came to destroy her people. I daydreamed completely made-up scenes in my head, like the day when Luthen made Kleya laugh for the very first time, or happy memories between them. I imagined that those actual flashback scenes were memories of hers that just were intrusive thoughts as she was trying to focus on her mission.

Kleya Marki (Elizabeth Dulau) is Luthen Rael’s (Stellan Skarsgård) closest associate.

(Lucasfilm Ltd.)

What was your initial take on Kleya and Luthen’s dynamic?

In Season 1, what really fascinated me was that he sets a lot of importance to Kleya’s words. He really listens to her and trusts her and allows himself to be seen by her in a way that he doesn’t let himself be seen by anyone else. So what’s the power dynamic? It’s not the classic father-daughter thing. It’s not like he’s the boss and she’s just the assistant. There’s a real equality, and that’s quite rare, I think, to see between an older man and a younger woman. I was just fascinated by that and had a lot of fun in Season 1 trying to square up to Stellan Skarsgård and tell him what to do. That was intimidating, but really fun.

Then when I found out their backstory, so much about Kleya made sense. It just really broke my heart. In another life, Luthen would have just been this antiques nerd. In hardening himself to what he has to do, he also hardens this young girl, Kleya. It helped me realize that underneath all that hard exterior, at the very core of who Kleya is, actually is something extremely tender and extremely loving. That’s why she is so tough on the outside because there’s something very painful that she’s protecting deep down. She doesn’t let herself have any friends or fall in love or any of that. She makes herself as lethal a weapon as possible. But against her best judgment, love grows for Luthen, care grows between them, and all of that is what they have to lose. But neither of them are ever willing to admit that.

So much of “Andor” is about the sacrifice everybody makes. But for Kleya, we see that her sacrifice has been ongoing.

Yes. “I don’t have lately, I have always,” she says. She has stripped her life of anything that makes her vulnerable. Joy and love and friendship are some of the the most worthwhile things that a human being can have in their life, but it also makes you vulnerable, in a way. And Kleya just cannot afford to be vulnerable. She tells herself, “I have nothing to lose. Everything is for the Rebellion.” [But] she’s lying to herself. She doesn’t really know until Episode 10 that, actually, Luthen is the thing that she has to lose. And she’s willing to do it. She’s willing to sacrifice.

It seems like the closest Kleya has to a frenemy of sorts is Vel, but how do you see their dynamic?

Vel really gets under her skin. Even though Vel is such a tough character as well, she has those relationships. She allows herself to have that relationship with Mon Mothma, her cousin, and with Cinta. She allows herself to fall in love and Kleya just cannot wrap her head around it. How could you let yourself be this vulnerable? But also, maybe for Kleya, there’s a bit of jealousy there as well that Vel has those things.

Kleya has made herself “as lethal a weapon as possible” for the Rebellion, says Elizabeth Dulau.

(Lucasfilm Ltd.)

How did you see Kleya’s trip to Yavin and seeing what she and Luthen had been working for? Because things aren’t quite over for her yet.

I always thought she sees it as her final job, getting the information about the Death Star to Cassian and just getting that information to Yavin. Because you see Cassian have to convince her to come with him to Yavin. She doesn’t want to go there. I don’t know how much she feels she has left to give at that point. She is overwhelmed by grief for Luthen and that grief makes her realize just how much actually she’s come to love him. So she’s in this place of this immensely painful realization about the man who did this awful thing and wiped out her people. How does anyone reckon with that? That’s the space that she’s in when she’s trying desperately to convince Cassian to go without her to Yavin.

Then, once she’s on Yavin and she sees Vel, that tiny little conversation with her, as short as it was, it’s monumental for Kleya because it helps shift her perspective enough that she maybe starts to see a future for herself there amongst that community.

That final shot actually is her looking at the people of Yavin doing their morning routines and seeing the culmination of all of her and Luthen’s work for all those years. I think it’s a feeling of immense satisfaction and sadness that they pulled it off, but also that he’ll never see it.

What was it like working with Stellan Skarsgård?

My final audition actually was with Stellan. I remember my agent calling me to say, “Your recall went well. The note is, for your final audition, just try not to be too nervous. Walk into that room like you’ve been doing this for years.” Then she said, “Your final audition is going to be at Pinewood Studios. You’re going to be reading opposite Stellan Skarsgård. But don’t let that make you nervous.” And I just burst out laughing. Like, this isn’t real. This isn’t happening.

He met with me for coffee 10 minutes before the audition because it was a chemistry read and he wanted to not do it cold. Stellan has this wonderful magic to him that after 10 minutes of chatting with him for the first time ever, I really felt like I was walking into the room with a friend and that I had someone in my corner that was rooting for me.

Stellan has had such a long and rich career, so I don’t know what this job is for him, but this is such a huge job for me and Stellan has been such a huge part of that. I always looked forward to having another scene with Stellan. It was like going home again, having another scene with him, because he was my anchor throughout the whole thing. He knew that it was my first job, so I could ask him all the questions about what was happening, acting techniques for screen, all of that stuff. I could have those conversations with him and he was always so willing to talk about it. He really took me under his wings big time and I will always be so grateful to him for that.

To Los Angeles City Council members searching desperately for cuts amid a budget crisis, the Fire Department’s emergency incident technicians are “drivers” whose main role is chauffeuring battalion chiefs to emergencies.

But LAFD officials say the position is much more than that. Emergency incident technicians are firefighters who play a key role in coordinating the response to fires, and losing them would put lives at risk, according to LAFD interim Chief Ronnie Villanueva.

“This is going to come back and bite us. This is not a matter of them just being a driver. It is not a driver. You have to just take that out of your minds of transporting someone somewhere,” Villanueva said, addressing the City Council’s budget committee at a hearing on Thursday.

Five months after the Palisades fire destroyed thousands of homes and prompted questions about whether the Fire Department was equipped to fight such a massive blaze, the budget committee moved forward with a recommendation to cut the emergency incident technician positions.

Of the 42 positions, 27 are currently filled. Those firefighters would not lose their jobs but would be reassigned, saving the city more than $7 million in the next fiscal year and about $10 million every year after that, according to City Administrative Officer Matt Szabo.

The city is facing a nearly $1-billion budget shortfall largely due to rising personnel costs, soaring legal payouts and a slowdown in the local economy. Mayor Karen Bass’ 2025-26 budget proposal, which suggested laying off more than 1,600 city employees, did not include reassigning the emergency incident technicians.

The budget committee, which stressed that the overall Fire Department budget is increasing, also recommended nixing Bass’ plan for creating a new unit within the department that would have added 67 employees to address issues stemming from the homelessness crisis.

At Thursday’s budget hearing, Councilmember Tim McOsker, who has two children who are firefighters, argued for cutting the emergency incident technician position, calling it “basically an aide.”

When Villanueva asked McOsker to put a cost on a firefighter’s life, McOsker said, “Invaluable.”

“I can say the same thing about very many of the 1,300 positions we’re cutting, because we’re also going to not be doing sidewalks, streets, curbs, gutters, tree trimming, changing out lights, making our communities safe,” McOsker added. “The reality is we have to balance a budget.”

The budget committee has sent its initial recommendations to Chief Legislative Analyst Sharon Tso, the City Council’s top policy advisor, who on Friday will present the committee with a full menu of strategies for cutting costs while preserving as many services as possible. The committee is then expected to finalize its recommendations and send the proposed budget to the full council, which must approve a final budget by the end of the month.

On the way to a scene, a “command team” consisting of a chief and an emergency incident technician “might be responsible to provide direction to the rescue of a trapped firefighter or civilians, firefighter tracking, and handle the risk management of a rapidly escalating incident,” Capt. Erik Scott, an LAFD spokesperson, said in a statement.

“The more complex the incident, the greater the need for Emergency Incident Technicians to facilitate emergency incident mitigation,” Scott added, with the types of incidents including “structure fires, brush fires, multi-casualty incidents, earthquakes, train collisions, building collapses, active shooter, airport and port emergencies etc.”

Gregg Avery, who retired last year as a battalion chief after 37 years with the LAFD, said that during his career, emergency incident technicians were called aides, then staff assistants. But Avery thought of them more as partners. The four EITs who worked for him often helped him with strategic decisions, and he encouraged them to question his decisions and offer advice.

“The EIT happens to drive the car. But to call them a driver is a bit demeaning and a bit minimizing,” he said.

While an EIT drives a battalion chief to a fire or other emergency, both work the radios to develop strategies for tackling the situation, according to Avery and a video produced by the LAFD. They communicate with fire commanders, firefighters on the scene, police officers and agencies such as the Department of Water and Power and the U.S. Forest Service.

At the scene, they work with the incident commander to keep track of firefighters and other personnel — a crucial role in chaotic situations when forgetting a single firefighter’s location could be fatal, both Villanueva and Avery said.

But at the Thursday budget hearing, Villanueva struggled to articulate what EITs do when they aren’t responding to scenes.

“They visit fire stations and they deliver mail. They talk about the current events. If there’s any questions they need to be asked … the EIT will assist with those. They do staffing,” Villanueva said.

According to Avery, EITs act as liaisons between firefighters and battalion chiefs. Since they are firefighters themselves and members of the labor union, they can relate to the rank-and-file, Avery said.

The EIT positions were cut once before — in 2010, during another major budget crunch in the Great Recession. Since then, the department has been adding them back.

Avery remembers working without an EIT after the cuts.

“Emergency operations were profoundly different and not as good,” he said.