Hours later, Ramaswamy would become a focal point of the debate, with the multimillionaire entrepreneur and first-time candidate trading barbs with former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley and former Vice President Mike Pence.
Campaigns and allied super PACs often peddle opposition research on their opponents to the press in hopes of landing negative stories. But it is exceedingly rare that a top strategist is caught on a recording admitting as much. And Roe is no mere operative. Never Back Down has taken on a central role in trying to secure the nomination for DeSantis, spending tens of millions of dollars to support a major voter persuasion and advertising operation.
A spokesperson for Never Back Down did not return a request for comment. Ramaswamy’s campaign, however, cast Roe’s comments as evidence that the candidate was gaining momentum.
“When DeSantis’s Super Pac campaign, Chris Christie, the New York Times, MSNBC and the rest of the bipartisan establishment are all going after you at the same time, you know you’re right over the target,” said Ramaswamy spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin. “America watched Vivek dominate the debate stage, it’s no wonder Never Back Down is pissing away another $20+ million after Labor Day.”
Polls have shown Ramaswamy gaining momentum in the Republican presidential primary and even fighting for contention with DeSantis as the leading rival to the frontrunning candidate, former President Donald Trump. While Roe argued that the 38-year-old, Harvard-educated Ramaswamy would wilt under increased scrutiny from the national press corps, his private remarks also betrayed an anxiety within DeSantis’ orbit over his ascendance.
Prior to the debate, Roe’s political consulting firm, Axiom, had uploaded a dossier to its website suggesting ways in which DeSantis could try and tarnish Ramaswamy, primarily by dubbing him a phony. During the predebate presentation, Roe relayed that the well-funded Never Back Down was behind a raft of negative stories about Ramaswamy, who in recent days has faced questions about his inconsistencies on key issues, his foreign policy views and his readiness to be president. He has also been pressed on his past criticism of Trump, who Ramaswamy now praises as the “best president of the 21st century.”
“He will not go through the discovery, scrutiny and decline phase of presidential politics very well,” Roe predicted. “His scrutiny phase, we are putting him through it right now.”
Roe’s presentation, which was held in Milwaukee, Wis., the site of the first GOP primary debate, was aimed at providing an update to DeSantis’ top financial supporters. During the roughly hourlong meeting — portions of which were earlier reported by CNN and The New York Times — Roe pleaded with contributors for $50 million to fund the super PAC’s efforts. The appeal came as polls have shown DeSantis stagnant in the race and trailing Trump by wide margins nationally and in early primary states.
Roe stressed that the governor needed to “have a moment” during the debate and show that he could “take a punch.” But he also downplayed the notion that DeSantis was in a bad spot politically. He compared the campaign to a college football season, with the debate representing the kickoff for the first game.
“We’ve just been playing without pads, practicing without pads,” Roe said. The campaign, he added, has been “playing in the sandbox with Vivek and [North Dakota Gov. Doug] Burgum and this kind of dance we need to do, little tapioca pudding crap that we’ve been doing. I think the separation is going to be real and stark and aggressive. I think that will become real clear the day after Labor Day.”
While Roe stressed that the race was still in an early stage, he also emphasized that Never Back Down had been investing serious resources to help position DeSantis for the stretch ahead. The super PAC, he revealed, had spent $15 million before the Florida governor announced his presidential bid in late May.
The DeSantis operation has made electability a central theme of his pitch to voters, arguing that he would be best positioned to defeat President Joe Biden in 2024. During the meeting, Roe argued that if Trump was the nominee, Republicans would lose the presidential race and give Democrats control of both congressional chambers. He also warned that in such a scenario, Democrats would pack the Supreme Court and push statehood for Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C.
As for the path ahead, Roe tried to sound a bullish note.
“Iowa is a real state for us because of its education — it’s a highly educated state — because of income, because of bible reading,” he said of the first caucus state, where DeSantis trails Trump by a slightly less severe margin than elsewhere. “New Hampshire is a terrible state for Donald Trump. That’s a terrible state for him. He’s gonna get like 28 percent. Now there is more people who will have a slice of that and some people are just betting on New Hampshire overall. But he’s going to lose the first two states. We’re going to beat him in Iowa.”